Hey all,
Decided to try my hand at a cheap restoration and already a little confused. This is a tenor and the pots outside width is 10 1/2” inside 9 /12”. It came with what looks like a tone ring which I wasn’t expecting on a tenor, but my intent was to put a goatskin head on it but a little confused on what size flesh hoop I need. I’ve read I might be able to use the remo head hoop but just want to make sure as it looks to be 10 3/4” inside and seems like it will be too big unless the skin will hold it on until I tighten the brackets on the tension hoop.
Apologies if this doesn’t make sense because even after I read it I barely understand but hopefully the pictures help ??
Thanks for any help and appreciate the knowledge I’ve learned from this site
R U sure the rim diameter is 10 1/2"? The looks like a student grade Slingerland. Their rims are 10 3/4"
Yes it’s 10 3/4”, it must have expanded in this Florida humidity since I measured. Kidding aside, thanks for letting me know it’s probably a slingerland. Do you think using the remo for a flesh hoop will work or should I try and find one? I’d like to do it right but I’ve had trouble finding flesh hoops for some reason
I sell flesh hoops for $15. I also have goat and calf skins in stock. Ready for you to soak and mount.
See the banjo head page of my website for more details.
Bob smakula
smakula.com
I humbly suggest a wet mount head.
quote:
Originally posted by Bob SmakulaI sell flesh hoops for $15. I also have goat and calf skins in stock. Ready for you to soak and mount.
See the banjo head page of my website for more details.
Bob smakulasmakula.com
Awesome, I will check it out. Thank you
A few things I've noticed:
Your tension hoop is upside down, The neck notch should not be toward the rim. The notch is for string clearance over that hoop.
The existing head looks fine. Unless you want the practice, maybe just leave it be.
It's not that hard to make a flesh hoop from an old coat hanger or brass stock (square stock is best). The seam does not need to be brazed, soldered, or joined in any other way.
Just because a banjo is a tenor doesn't mean it won't have a tone ring. In fact, many of the best rings were designed during the tenor banjo craze in the twenties.
Good luck! These old Slingerlands are better than people think; well made, decent sound.
I agree with George that the head probably doesn't need to be replaced. I respectfully disagree about not joining the ends of the flesh hoop. In my experience, it's easier to mount a new skin if the flesh hoop is tight enough to hold the skin more or less in place while you get the tension hoop over the skin. If the ends aren't joined, the flesh hoop can't do that.
Soldering is not so expensive nor so hard that it can't be done by almost anyone who is handy with tools.
quote:
Originally posted by mcclurgkyleYes it’s 10 3/4”, it must have expanded in this Florida humidity since I measured. Kidding aside, thanks for letting me know it’s probably a slingerland. Do you think using the remo for a flesh hoop will work or should I try and find one? I’d like to do it right but I’ve had trouble finding flesh hoops for some reason
No!. I find the aluminium mounting bands too high for flesh hoops. Bod Smakula is your best source of hoops.
quote:
Originally posted by G Edward PorgieA few things I've noticed:
Your tension hoop is upside down, The neck notch should not be toward the rim. The notch is for string clearance over that hoop.
The existing head looks fine. Unless you want the practice, maybe just leave it be.
It's not that hard to make a flesh hoop from an old coat hanger or brass stock (square stock is best). The seam does not need to be brazed, soldered, or joined in any other way.
Just because a banjo is a tenor doesn't mean it won't have a tone ring. In fact, many of the best rings were designed during the tenor banjo craze in the twenties.
Good luck! These old Slingerlands are better than people think; well made, decent sound.
I appreciate you taking the time for the tips and feedback. I took a gamble on it for $100 to see if I could get it playing again and possibly have a hobby long term. I think I will try my hand on putting a skin on and also looking at putting an inlay in where the old star was on the headstock. It came with a waverly tailpiece and 3 what look like original tuners. Ill make sure and post pictures once completed in case anyone migh be interested in seeing my amateur work :)
Looking forward to seeing your progress.
I repair and restore tenor banjos and started just as you are. In the music I play we rarely use skin heads, so it was many, many years before I ever tried to mount one and that was only because I do work for the local guitar shop. I will tell you, it's a bit of guess, and a bit of an art. I've done a few now and my confidence is increasing. I would encourage you to get the skin and flesh hoop from Bob, he's great. Also, watch lots of videos! I would offer one more recommendation, get the banjo setup and playing with the existing head first. Tackle those challenges and get your reward of being able to play the banjo. You can always do the head at a later date, and if you're like most of us, you'll have another banjo to play while you do.
quote:
Originally posted by DSmokeI repair and restore tenor banjos and started just as you are. In the music I play we rarely use skin heads, so it was many, many years before I ever tried to mount one and that was only because I do work for the local guitar shop. I will tell you, it's a bit of guess, and a bit of an art. I've done a few now and my confidence is increasing. I would encourage you to get the skin and flesh hoop from Bob, he's great. Also, watch lots of videos! I would offer one more recommendation, get the banjo setup and playing with the existing head first. Tackle those challenges and get your reward of being able to play the banjo. You can always do the head at a later date, and if you're like most of us, you'll have another banjo to play while you do.
I think that's very good advice but unfortunately I am one who researches every detail and tries to learn everything too quickly to master it. Usually ends up in failure but I do a little better by learning in defeat.
I started playing ukulele when Covid started a couple years ago and bought a Beansprout banjo from Aaron Kleim as he built a couple of my ukuleles from his former company and love the sound of the banjo with a skin head and nylgut strings. I recently purchased a Nate Calkins banjo with steel strings and it's a beautiful instrument but still working on the transition to steel so I'm sure I will have a bit of a learning curve with a tenor.
I'll start with the original head and see how it goes, but I know I'll be calling up Bob soon
I think I uploaded updated pictures? Either way I wanted to keep it original as possible. Goat skin head I dyed with coffee as it was super bleached white and I thought it turned out decent. Cleaned up the brackets trying to not take off anything besides rust and few spots I went a little too deep but put some jax black on it and was a good way to not do that again. Lastly, tried my hand at hand carving an inlay and doing a star was probably a dumb idea and a corner cracked when I was putting it in the headstock, but overall I’m not too disappointed with how it turned out.
Anyways, appreciate the help and any tips or feedback is appreciated. I have pretty thick skin so no worries if you’re brutal :)
Edited by - mcclurgkyle on 02/14/2023 21:08:23
quote:
Originally posted by Jonnycake WhiteI agree with George that the head probably doesn't need to be replaced. I respectfully disagree about not joining the ends of the flesh hoop. In my experience, it's easier to mount a new skin if the flesh hoop is tight enough to hold the skin more or less in place while you get the tension hoop over the skin. If the ends aren't joined, the flesh hoop can't do that.
Soldering is not so expensive nor so hard that it can't be done by almost anyone who is handy with tools.
I have mounted quite a number of heads on flesh hoops that had free ends. It usually isn't difficult (it couldn't be, or there wouldn't be so many banjos around that were done that way by unskilled factory workers.
I would also point out that soldering, though easy for some, is miserable for others, and does not always make a smooth enough seam, and that some metals (steel, for one), aluminum for another) can't be soldered well. I've encountered a few that were held together by other methods, but some of those are lousy because tape or other things can be rather lumpy, and many still move around at the joint.
I won't discourage anyone from doing what they find easiest for them. I am only saying that joining the ends is not a necessity.
quote:
Originally posted by G Edward Porgiequote:
Originally posted by Jonnycake WhiteI agree with George that the head probably doesn't need to be replaced. I respectfully disagree about not joining the ends of the flesh hoop. In my experience, it's easier to mount a new skin if the flesh hoop is tight enough to hold the skin more or less in place while you get the tension hoop over the skin. If the ends aren't joined, the flesh hoop can't do that.
Soldering is not so expensive nor so hard that it can't be done by almost anyone who is handy with tools.I have mounted quite a number of heads on flesh hoops that had free ends. It usually isn't difficult (it couldn't be, or there wouldn't be so many banjos around that were done that way by unskilled factory workers.
I would also point out that soldering, though easy for some, is miserable for others, and does not always make a smooth enough seam, and that some metals (steel, for one), aluminum for another) can't be soldered well. I've encountered a few that were held together by other methods, but some of those are lousy because tape or other things can be rather lumpy, and many still move around at the joint.
I won't discourage anyone from doing what they find easiest for them. I am only saying that joining the ends is not a necessity.
Yeah I just used packing tape and it worked fine. Next time I'll wait to lower the tension hoop as once the head settled it's a little lower than I would have liked
Yeah I just used packing tape and it worked fine. Next time I'll wait to lower the tension hoop as once the head settled it's a little lower than I would have liked
If you look back up at my original comment I said it's a bit of luck and a bit of an art. Without lots of experience, it's hard to tell how tight to pull the wet skin and how high to leave the tension ring to get the proper tension and proper height of the tension ring when you're done. If the head is up to tension now it will play fine, you just have to watch the bearing edge of the head doesn't get worn or damaged. I've had plenty of old tenors arrives with heads like that were well played. I'm guessing another project banjo will be finding it's way to you soon enough. Good job!
Your banjo looks fine now. One note on hide heads: they can be re-mounted, provided you don't trim the excess until everything is dry and properly stretched. I got lucky on my first try, but my second didn't pull down the way I wanted. Because I hadn't trimmed it, I was able to start over and get it right.
It may not look like you had hoped, but it will probably play fine, so don't worry about it until further tightening makes the the flesh hoop bottom out in the neck notch.
quote:
Originally posted by DSmokeYeah I just used packing tape and it worked fine. Next time I'll wait to lower the tension hoop as once the head settled it's a little lower than I would have liked
If you look back up at my original comment I said it's a bit of luck and a bit of an art. Without lots of experience, it's hard to tell how tight to pull the wet skin and how high to leave the tension ring to get the proper tension and proper height of the tension ring when you're done. If the head is up to tension now it will play fine, you just have to watch the bearing edge of the head doesn't get worn or damaged. I've had plenty of old tenors arrives with heads like that were well played. I'm guessing another project banjo will be finding it's way to you soon enough. Good job!
Thank you sir!
quote:
Originally posted by G Edward PorgieYour banjo looks fine now. One note on hide heads: they can be re-mounted, provided you don't trim the excess until everything is dry and properly stretched. I got lucky on my first try, but my second didn't pull down the way I wanted. Because I hadn't trimmed it, I was able to start over and get it right.
It may not look like you had hoped, but it will probably play fine, so don't worry about it until further tightening makes the the flesh hoop bottom out in the neck notch.
I'll will make sure to wait and trim next time. The tone is fine but the end of the brackets are pretty sharp and a little uncomfortable if I don't wear the right clothes. I'm in Tampa so I usually play without a shirt at home lol
