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Feb 4, 2023 - 5:17:44 PM
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86 posts since 7/14/2016

Hello folks, wondering what your favorite finishes are for a rustic banjo and a bluegrass banjo. For rustic I have tried a product called Polyvine wax finish varnish, which has given me a very natural and warm look, but it is water-based. I'm afraid it will not protect the instrument very well. Have used nitrocellulose lacquer clear, but this seems like the wrong finish to me for a banjo from an aesthetic point of view. I am about to try some Sam Maloof poly oil.

Does anyone out there have some favorite finishes that they like? Thanks

Feb 4, 2023 - 6:08:22 PM
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2678 posts since 11/17/2018

I am starting to like matte finishes on Bluegrass banjos.

Feb 4, 2023 - 7:18:34 PM
Players Union Member

rmcdow

USA

1280 posts since 11/8/2014

My favorite finish is the Hammerl violin oil varnish. There are several downsides to this finish, and also upsides. It takes about a month to cure and dry thoroughly, but after it does, it is rock hard, and penetrates into the wood to bring out the color and chatoyancy of the wood. It polishes well, and if a repair is needed, Hammerl also sells a spirit varnish that is the same composition, but dries much faster. When the finish is worn down to the wood, it still protects the wood because of its penetration into the wood. Hammerl's formula is based on the Cremona finishes used on violins such as the Stratovarius, and those finishes have lasted for centuries without cracking or crazing. It is expensive, but if you want a fine finish that is going to last longer than nitrocellulose, shellac, water or oil based urethanes, or pretty much any other modern finish, this is the one to use if you have the time available to see the process through.

I use nitrocellulose or Crystalac (both semi-gloss) as my go to finishes when I don't want to take the time for the Cremona oil varnish, which is most of the time. They each have their advantages and disadvantages that are well discussed. My primary complaint about Crystalac is that I have had difficulty with adherence in some cases, and if it is applied too thick, too soon between coats, or over wood that has spots with a higher moisture content than the rest of the wood, it crazes. It doesn't appear to soak into the wood very far, and this is a concern of mine for durability over time. Otherwise, it is a durable finish even when exposed to water or moisture after it is thoroughly cured.

Edited by - rmcdow on 02/04/2023 19:20:39

Feb 4, 2023 - 7:24:25 PM
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17 posts since 1/14/2023

I've found the tried and true boiled linseed oil to be my goto for the banjos I've built.
I will need to experiment further with other finishes in the future but I love how BLO looks

Feb 4, 2023 - 7:26:43 PM
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659 posts since 5/29/2015

Violin makers typically darken their instruments in a UV cabinet before finishing and use the same UV cabinet to greatly speed up the drying of oil varnishes.

Feb 4, 2023 - 7:42:57 PM
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banjo roo

Australia

167 posts since 5/12/2010

Tru oil

Feb 4, 2023 - 7:50:08 PM
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17 posts since 1/14/2023

banjo roo Do you have a picture with a tru oil finished banjo? I'd like to see that!

Feb 4, 2023 - 8:31:35 PM
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Players Union Member

TN Time

USA

490 posts since 12/6/2021

quote:
Originally posted by copperheadautomation

banjo roo Do you have a picture with a tru oil finished banjo? I'd like to see that!


Take a look at some of the banjos made by Zachary Hoyt. He finishes many of his banjos with Tru Oil. I bought the cherry open back banjo #16 made by Hoyt a few years ago and it looks great with the Tru Oil finish.

Robert

Feb 4, 2023 - 8:54:59 PM
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2710 posts since 9/18/2010

quote:
Originally posted by copperheadautomation

banjo roo Do you have a picture with a tru oil finished banjo? I'd like to see that!


Excuse me for butting in. I haven't finished a banjo with Tru Oil ( I use nitro lacquer for them), but I do use it for a top coat on varnished mandolins. It can have surface qualities all the way from a minimal low gloss finish to a high gloss approaching that of buffed lacquer.

It looks like this:


 

Feb 4, 2023 - 11:32:52 PM
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banjo roo

Australia

167 posts since 5/12/2010

quote:
Originally posted by banjo roo

Tru oil


I am far from an expert on finishing, so definitely not a proffessional job. But pics attached. It is not clear, but a slight stain. I have read Tru Oil is a mix of boiled linseed oil and wiping varnish, which probably best describes the colour and finish - somewhere between boiled linseed and varnish. The more coats, the more gloss.


Feb 5, 2023 - 1:39:38 AM

martyjoe

Ireland

261 posts since 3/24/2020

One more vote for Tru Oil, & another vote for Ozmo Hard Wax Oil for the neck.

Feb 5, 2023 - 3:35:17 AM

196 posts since 8/31/2015

I finish my gourd banjo necks with shellac. I use a spray gun, not french polish. It's faster and easier and looks great. I prefer working with shellac over lacquer, it's a much more pleasant experience. I usually don't even wear a mask, I actually kind of like the smell of shellac. Only downside to spraying is It's a PITA to clean the gun afterwards, I have one spray gun dedicated to shellac for this reason. I refretted my maple fingerboard stratocaster and planed then refinished the board with shellac. I was able to match the color and now it looks and feels much nicer than the overly-thick fender factory lacquer.

For guitars, "nicer" banjos, and re-fins, a few light coats of tried and true sprayed lacquer is my go-to finish.

I like the way tru-oil looks and feels but it smells terrible, and the smell lingers a very long time (months or even years)

-TD

Feb 5, 2023 - 4:12:54 AM

Bill H

USA

2092 posts since 11/7/2010

I use oil-based polyurethane applied with a rag. I wipe on thin coats and buff out while tacky. 7-10 coats. I top off with boiled linseed oil. I have a 40-year-old neck that looks like the day it was made.

Feb 5, 2023 - 4:39:17 AM

5125 posts since 11/20/2004

I use truoil as well. I started due to the feel on necks. I was always frustrated with the stickiness of lacquer when playing in hot or humid conditions and have not found truoil to have any stickiness when playing. On larger areas like resonator backs, the final coats need to be thinned to flow best. It also smells for a while as mentioned as it dries completely, but is nowhere near the smell of lacquer when spraying. I do my work in my basement and lacquer is not suitable due to the smell throughout the house and the flammability. I can do multiple
coats per day as well. It does yellow over time on white bindings, giving an older look to the instrument, if this matters to you.

Feb 5, 2023 - 5:19:38 AM
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3248 posts since 2/18/2009

On instruments I've been using Tru Oil exclusively for several years, maybe getting close to 10 now. It seems to me to provide the kind of finish I'm looking for, and it's easy for the owner to touch up in case of damage in the future.

Feb 5, 2023 - 5:26:29 AM
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15206 posts since 6/29/2005

Probably my favorite is French Polish from the standpoints of beauty, tradition, and friendliness, but it's difficult and time consuming to do—works best on flat surfaces. It's worth learning how to so

It's hard to beat nitro—easy to do, looks great, and most bluegrass banjos historically have been done that way—problems are it's explosive, stinks, and the fumes are toxic—very bad if your shop is in your house—my wife can smell it if I get sneaky and spray even a tiny bit from a spray can onto a peghead. I'm making a small dedicated spray shop 150 feet for the house to spray nitro when I must, and it makes a great high build undercoat for French polish on curved surfaces like necks and guitar sides.

Most factories use catalyzed finishes like UV, conversion finish and various polys, which are basically plastic and build up a very thick coat. Not for me.

I have tried and tried and tried to like the various environmentally friendly water borne ones—used them for a couple of years and thought I loved them, but reality set in and have given up on the grounds of UV blockers stopping the color from darkening, and a general "kitchen cabinet" (for lack of a better term) look.  They have all the positive attributes of hard surface, friendliness, you can pat yourself on the back for being a good environmentalist, but they just don't look as good as shellac (French polish or nitro), and they don't give you a "handmade" feeling. The good ones are also very expensive.

I have not used oil based saturating finishes on instruments, preferring surface coat stuff, so I have nothing intelligent or experience-based to share, but they have a wide fan-base and look good.

Dan Drabek uses marine varnish to great advantage and his instruments look spectacular, but that is different than the rubbing oils.

Feb 5, 2023 - 5:27:15 AM

5551 posts since 5/9/2007

Shellac

Very Durable, Satin Finish and Feel, Never Sticky, Easy to Apply, Easy Touch-Up If Needed

Had it on my Burns #3 since 2007 with no maintenance required yet.

Feb 5, 2023 - 5:52:20 AM

15206 posts since 6/29/2005

quote:
Originally posted by martyjoe

One more vote for Tru Oil, & another vote for Ozmo Hard Wax Oil for the neck.


I like Osmo for necks too—it's great stuff.

Feb 5, 2023 - 10:27:57 AM

2457 posts since 2/7/2008

I like Osmo for the neck and shellac for everything else.

I like shellac mixed from flakes. I think it cures harder making it more durable and easier to polish.

For some reason, I can't spray nitro worth a darn, but shellac sprays beautifully for me. 

Edited by - Quickstep192 on 02/05/2023 10:29:25

Feb 5, 2023 - 12:11:38 PM

15206 posts since 6/29/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Quickstep192

I like Osmo for the neck and shellac for everything else.

I like shellac mixed from flakes. I think it cures harder making it more durable and easier to polish.

For some reason, I can't spray nitro worth a darn, but shellac sprays beautifully for me. 


I mix the shellac from flakes too, and use ethyl / grain alcohol.  The pre-mixed Zinsser "Seal Coat" dewaxed shellac is a good sealer for practically anything.

I never tried spraying shellac— sounds like a great idea, how much do you thin it down?

Feb 5, 2023 - 12:53:04 PM

2457 posts since 2/7/2008

quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
quote:
Originally posted by Quickstep192

I like Osmo for the neck and shellac for everything else.

I like shellac mixed from flakes. I think it cures harder making it more durable and easier to polish.

For some reason, I can't spray nitro worth a darn, but shellac sprays beautifully for me. 


I mix the shellac from flakes too, and use ethyl / grain alcohol.  The pre-mixed Zinsser "Seal Coat" dewaxed shellac is a good sealer for practically anything.

I never tried spraying shellac— sounds like a great idea, how much do you thin it down?


I make a 1.25lb cut. 1lb is a little thin and 1.5 is getting a little too thick for my spraying skills.

Edited by - Quickstep192 on 02/05/2023 13:07:25

Feb 5, 2023 - 3:29:39 PM

2710 posts since 9/18/2010

I mix a 2 lb cut (roughly, I don't usually measure) and then thin with ethanol for spraying shellac. I can't say how much thinning, I'm just looking for a good viscosity to spray.

Edited by - sunburst on 02/05/2023 15:30:11

Feb 5, 2023 - 5:37:20 PM
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15206 posts since 6/29/2005

quote:
Originally posted by sunburst

I mix a 2 lb cut (roughly, I don't usually measure) and then thin with ethanol for spraying shellac. I can't say how much thinning, I'm just looking for a good viscosity to spray.


I'm imagining you can clean the gun with regular denatured alcohol.

Feb 5, 2023 - 7:30:19 PM

5551 posts since 5/9/2007

Flakes
Alcohol
Soft Rag
Modest Ventilation
Time For Multiple Coats

Feels like a well worn hoe handle.


 

Edited by - mrphysics55 on 02/05/2023 19:30:37

Feb 5, 2023 - 7:36:39 PM
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10373 posts since 8/28/2013

I only have enough experience to know that I dislike the processes and the materials.

I did work for years with piano refinishers, who use Nitro almost exclusively. NEVER, ever, ignore what is said about its toxicity. One gentleman I worked with was losing his brain power by the time he hit his mid fifties, and I sometimes wonder about my own sanity from being around too many freshly done pianos. One doesn't always know all the hazards; I also filed and reshaped hundreds of felt piano hammers from a period when most felts were cured with mercury.

A number of hat makers went bonkers, as noted in the works of Lewis Carroll.

Feb 5, 2023 - 7:41:40 PM

2457 posts since 2/7/2008

quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
quote:
Originally posted by sunburst

I mix a 2 lb cut (roughly, I don't usually measure) and then thin with ethanol for spraying shellac. I can't say how much thinning, I'm just looking for a good viscosity to spray.


I'm imagining you can clean the gun with regular denatured alcohol.


Yes, exactly. The light shellac cut seems to spray out of the gun quickly and if it does get gunked up, soaking the gun parts in alcohol overnight cleans them right up. 

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