I can’t help with much. The band I'm in uses one condenser mic and we do the mic dance, which is fun once you get the choreography down.

Regarding Ear Trumpet mics - I love how they look, but you may want to research them. From what I’ve read, the internals are exactly like much cheaper, less esthetically appealing mics. So you can get the same sound with less expensive gear. But if looks are important and you have the funds the ET gear is really cool looking.

Your query is likely to be moved to the Live Sound, Recording and Electronics forum by the moderators. Do NOT repost your query - they'll move it for you.

There's a "sticky" topic in that forum that will answer pretty much all of your questions. It's called PA 101.

Ok, great. Thank you. I searched a couple of things, but not “PA,” or not the right combo. I missed that sticky all together. Sorry about the wasted space.

Moderators, you can delete this one. Sorry for the oversight.

Call Nick Reedy at Sweetwater.com He is an expert on sound equipment.

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Originally posted by TX2AK

. . . what would be a minimal, but acceptable, setup for our band: Vocals, fiddle, banjo, guitar, bass, with occasional mandolin in place of one of the others . . .  I’m sure a decent acoustic PA is first order.

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Based on my limited experience of performing with what I considered a minimal PA in a pick-up band at a farmers' market, I'd say for similarly small gigs you could get by with all the musicians playing and singing into a single Ear Trumpet mic plugged into a single Bose pole/line/array speaker with bass module. The upright bass played through a pickup or clamp-on mic into a small amplifier.

Sorry I don't know which model Ear Trumpet it was. But since the bass player (owner) is a real gear-head, I'm sure it was the right one for this particular application.

If you don't want your group to do the bluegrass ballet around a single mic and you might be playing for an audience that's more than 10 to 15-feet away, then consider a mixer with at least 10 XLR inputs (so you run little chance of maxing out) and outputting to a pair of some kind of powered speakers. Bass, either upright or electric, could still go into its own small amp.

Bose columns -- and similar line array systems -- are claimed to have sufficiently wide coverage to eliminate the need for stage monitors. One of the last times my Celtic/Americana band played someone else provided the PA: their recently acquired pair of Fishman SA330 with the optional channel expander.  There weren't enough inputs for all the instruments and vocals and the way we were forced to set up they were not adequately self-monitoring, so we didn't hear ourselves very well. 

These days you definitely want powered speakers. Those built with modern "Class D" amplifiers are light weight. 

But EQ is lacking in these. So for more adjustable EQ bands, you may need an external EQ unit either between the mixer and the first powered speaker. Not too many un-powered mixers have 10- 31-channel EQ for the main signal. They have high, mid, and low for each channel and that's it. For adequate feedback control, you need more EQ channels somewhere in the chain. 

My own PA for my band was old-school: Mixer into powered head (with built-in EQ) driving two Peavey PR-12 400-watt passive speakers. A separate identical power head drove 4 Fender 1270 floor monitors. This was a lot to lug around. Last time I did it, I was 69 years old. I'd like that band to play again, but I don't think I can load and set up that much PA any more. Plus, I played both banjo and electric bass in that group, so I had that much more to pack.

I think your choices for floor monitor boil down to (1)  the smallest, lightest weight, power amp or PA head you can find that can drive up to 4 passive speakers, or (2) getting as many powered floor monitors as your group needs and chain them together. I have not found a powered monitor speaker that outputs a speaker signal to a chain of passive speakers.

Finally, if you're going to be using passive speakers and a power amp, learn about ohms. You can't just go chaining 4 speakers into any amp output. You run the risk of burning out the amp. Plenty of info on this online.

Do look at the PA sticky Skip mentioned.

Good luck, and have fun.

Thank you. I did check out that sticky - sorry I missed it before posting (I was looking in the wrong place). I have played with sound in a number of configurations with electric instruments and mics for each of us, but hoped it would be significantly simpler with a single mic bluegrass setup. I guess it is, but still more complicated than I expected ??. I guess things usually are! Thank y’all for the help. I decidedly have some research and playing to do. I’ll try to find a place we can demo. Sweetwater rep is a good idea too.

Thank you again for all replies. After carefully reading the sticky mentioned above from Skip, I looked into the Bose systems and others, and I am still a little unsure and overwhelmed. I am a big fan of Bose, generally, and can see a lot of value there. Budget is not unlimited, by any means, but playing is my passion and my family’s. A decent sound setup is the next logical and necessary step to get some gigs that we’ve passed up not having our own gear. My day job is great, no complaints, but I do it and do it as well as I can, so that I can spend a little extra on interests. The Bose systems look like a real possibility. From the info I saw on the thread and on Bose’s website, it appears they are “all-in-one” systems with a PA, speakers, mixer, all together.

For you knowledgeable folks, do you know of a better and simpler system? I’m looking for the most idiot-proof system to allow us to play the venues around our home (rural north Texas). Probably, unfortunately, that means a variable system. We have been asked to play everything from indoor art galleries (which we have done and required no support - I have to play lightly) to outdoor wedding after-parties, bull riding and rodeo concerts, wineries, etc. Some of those may be playing to 50 people or some to 200 (most of whom just want a beat to dance), but all of them expect sound to cover an outdoor audience of varying size and interest.

If you had $3,000 to spend on a sound system, and you were ignorant or lazy (the former applies to me), what would you buy? What would you buy if the budget went to $5,000? And finally, what would you buy if your budget was unlimited, but you liked the single mic vibe and feel, with a few enhancements? Again, this is for a typical bluegrass band: Banjo, fiddle, guitar, mandolin, bass, and vocal lead - at max capacity.

quote:

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Originally posted by TX2AK

Thank you again for all replies. After carefully reading the sticky mentioned above from Skip, I looked into the Bose systems and others, and I am still a little unsure and overwhelmed. I am a big fan of Bose, generally, and can see a lot of value there. Budget is not unlimited, by any means, but playing is my passion and my family’s.

(snip)

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Zach, I became a fan of the "modified single mic" setup discussed in the PA 101 thread: an LDC with two spot mics for soloing. Referring to your OP, the Ear Trumpet mics are indeed very cool to look at, but from a performance standpoint I don't think they're worth the extra $100 or so over the cost of a homelier mic.

As to the Bose units L1: I've played through them a couple of times, and they're certainly an option for small venues. They're compact and reasonably lightweight, and they essentially snap together, which makes load-in/setup - teardown/load out really easy. In small rooms they also have a very small footprint, which is advantageous if the venue has limited space for the peformers.

IMO they also tend to "color" the sound on the low end by manipulating it electronically, but the biggest drawback for your application is the fact that they don't carry enough inputs for your needs if you go modified single-mic - you'll need at least four inputs (LDC, 2 spots, bass). You CAN, as I understand it, use a separate mixer with these, and of course if you get two of them you'd be okay, but that would take you past your $3K number once stands, cabling and whatnots are built in.

As I noted in the PA101 thread, you can have too little power, but you can almost never have too much. Even for small venues, you can reduce output volumes. It's been quite a while since I've looked at this stuff - I know that more companies are offering products comparable to the Bose system, and I know that these also tend to be on the pricier side. If I were putting together a system today, I think I'd still go for reasonably powerful 2-way active speakers with a 15" low frequency driver, an 8-channel board (I've had good luck with Mackie), a decent LDC and a couple of spot mics like Shure SM57 or a narrow-pickup condensor. With stands and cabling, I believe you can get all that and come in under the $3K - and you can probably do that with the addition of a power conditioner and a DBX driverack.

By all means, keep your eye on your local Craigslist!

Great, thank you.

https://www.prosoundweb.com/re-p-files-the-grateful-dead-a-continual-development-of-concert-sound/

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Originally posted by eagleisland

quote:

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Originally posted by TX2AK

Thank you again for all replies. After carefully reading the sticky mentioned above from Skip, I looked into the Bose systems and others, and I am still a little unsure and overwhelmed. I am a big fan of Bose, generally, and can see a lot of value there. Budget is not unlimited, by any means, but playing is my passion and my family’s.

(snip)

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Zach, I became a fan of the "modified single mic" setup discussed in the PA 101 thread: an LDC with two spot mics for soloing. Referring to your OP, the Ear Trumpet mics are indeed very cool to look at, but from a performance standpoint I don't think they're worth the extra $100 or so over the cost of a homelier mic.

As to the Bose units L1: I've played through them a couple of times, and they're certainly an option for small venues. They're compact and reasonably lightweight, and they essentially snap together, which makes load-in/setup - teardown/load out really easy. In small rooms they also have a very small footprint, which is advantageous if the venue has limited space for the peformers.

IMO they also tend to "color" the sound on the low end by manipulating it electronically, but the biggest drawback for your application is the fact that they don't carry enough inputs for your needs if you go modified single-mic - you'll need at least four inputs (LDC, 2 spots, bass). You CAN, as I understand it, use a separate mixer with these, and of course if you get two of them you'd be okay, but that would take you past your $3K number once stands, cabling and whatnots are built in.

As I noted in the PA101 thread, you can have too little power, but you can almost never have too much. Even for small venues, you can reduce output volumes. It's been quite a while since I've looked at this stuff - I know that more companies are offering products comparable to the Bose system, and I know that these also tend to be on the pricier side. If I were putting together a system today, I think I'd still go for reasonably powerful 2-way active speakers with a 15" low frequency driver, an 8-channel board (I've had good luck with Mackie), a decent LDC and a couple of spot mics like Shure SM57 or a narrow-pickup condensor. With stands and cabling, I believe you can get all that and come in under the $3K - and you can probably do that with the addition of a power conditioner and a DBX driverack.

By all means, keep your eye on your local Craigslist!

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Banner, that Wall of Sound link is cool - I love the Dead - my parents are rural Texans, but my step-mom was a California kid in the 60s, and spent time in San Francisco. She had some Dead albums, and as a child, the cover art drew me in - I wound up really into the music, and eventually found Jerry's banjo work, originally with Old and In the Way," and later, others. He was truly my first banjo influence and the reason I got here to start!

Skip, the ETL mics are really nice to look at, and aesthetics are important. We were setting up a gig tonight with "leased" gear again - the lease is free legal work from me in trade ?? - and it's not a single mic setup, but is demonstrative of my point.   I've seen a lot of love for the AT stuff, and some great prices on, for example, the AT4033; but it is side address. I wondered, is that good for vocals too, or is there something better in the price range that I'm not finding. Your comment mentioned $100; and yes, $100 for aesthetics is worth it, if performance is great; but I see those ATs for under $300 - so that's a big disparity to $700, and starts to look a lot more attractive. Though it's never possible with music gear, I do believe in the "buy once, cry once ideology;" and the Yamaha board we fought for 2 hrs tonight, and eventually wound up with our lead singer and guitarist having to re-sheath his Martin, because it was too hot, in favor of his Gibson guitar, is a great example of what I'm taking about. The guy running sound tonight admitted that someone more pro might be able to make it work, but we couldn't - and it's not a problem with their usual, but much bigger and fancier gear. So, here I am, unable to help, but the gear we got locally is an issue that created a lot of headaches. I'd like the most idiot proof setup possible - if such a thing exists. 
 

I know y'all are probably not endorsed, but if there are specific gear recommendations you can make, they would be very much appreciated. There's so much out there - this gear was suppose to be good gear, but it didn't fit our needs tonight, I can say that. But none of us is a sound pro. The problem is that I don't know how you get to be an expert without spending a fortune and ruining countless gigs. Maybe that's just part of the journey, but I surely hope not. 
 

And, if possible, a Rec on each piece would be AMAZING. I've found "complete" PA setups on Craigslist, but the reality is that I'm 1.5 hrs from a real city, and unless I can find a unicorn, I'm probably looking at having to order gear, sight unseen. I know that isn't ideal; rural living has its significant upsides and down; and this arena is a definite down. 

We try to go simple. We have several At2020s or equivalent fed into a behringer XR-16 mixer which feeds 1 or 2 powered speakers. It is controlled over wireless from a cell phone or laptop from anywhere in audience. Using condensers for instruments is very flexible on stage and you can get by with just one. We decided to use several so we don't have to dance on stage. We stand closer enough to hear each other and do not use monitors. Feedback is a problem if you use monitors or try to place the main speakers behind you. Don't use monitors and place mains out front and they work great. We run 3 voice channels and 5 condensers and can set up from scratch in 30-45 minutes.
Rick