I’m not sure those banjos “need” a ring conversion. From what I’ve heard and read here on the Hangout many of those old ball bearing Gibsons sound fantastic. If I could get a hold of one of them I believe I would just have a 5 string neck made for it and play it that way. At least for a while.

quote:

---

Originally posted by leehar

I’m not sure those banjos “need” a ring conversion. From what I’ve heard and read here on the Hangout many of those old ball bearing Gibsons sound fantastic. If I could get a hold of one of them I believe I would just have a 5 string neck made for it and play it that way. At least for a while.

---

Totally agree. We have players who are so obsessed over pre-war Gibsons that they'll take a pre-war Gibson and make it less pre-war, just to say they have a pre-war Gibson.

The price you quoted would be for an instrument that retains ALL of its original parts and configuration.

That is, if it was a tenor, but now has a five string neck, the original tenor neck is still with the banjo and the pot retains its original Ball Bearing tone ring.

Ball Bearings banjos are a funny lot. Folks are always trying to find original examples, but it always seems that someone manages to dig up a pristine higher end example, and the first thing they want to do is cut it up, convert it, swap out the guts for a “Better” Flat Head tone ring, and essentially change everything. Two years later that same banjo winds up on G-base for sale, and then sits for years as it’s no longer and Original Ball Bearing Gibson.

These instruments sound amazing on their own and there is zero reason to cut rims, swap rind or what ever.

There are thousands of banjos for sale right now that are already, converted, custom built, re-necked and ect. One of those will certainly fit the bill of what you are looking for.

It amazes me how everyone is obsessed with reinventing the Gibson Mastertone.
Every ball bearing model Gibson that is converted to use a solid ring is one more that can never be made original again.
Just put a good five string neck on it and keep the original tenor neck with it.

Based on the two threads you have on prewar granadas...It sounds like you dont know what your wanting or getting but deep down your gut thinks its prestigeous to get a Gibson Granada and then make it into a parts banjo.

I would suggest you buy a modern ESS or Granada. They will sound better than what your used to be prewar but now parts banjo will, satisfy your thinking on Gibson and save an antique from being mutilated. There is also plenty of granada parts banjos out there for cheaper.

If you love the original ball bearing tone, it is wonderful. Get one, but do not expect to turn one into a great flathead with a conversion ring. Even with a conversion ring, mine was never close to my other standard flathead conversions. I preferred the tone of the BB setup over the conversion ring, but even the guys I play with said it was lacking in a group setting. Others will disagree, but that was my experience.

The particular granadas the op is looking at have sat on the market a long time because they are overpriced for bbs.

Personally I like them and their tone. Mic it up.

To continue the comment of NotABanjoYoda , buy it, put on a 5-string neck, and see if you like the sound. If you don't, sell it and fund a modern Granada or a parts banjo that's already sacrificed some of its prewar parts. You won't know if you like the ball bearing sound until you've let it rattle around in your head for a while, and played it opposite other banjos so you can decide your preference.

Prewar ball bearings have a sound all their own, as do prewar archtops. I bought a 1928 style 3 40-hole with the intention to convert it, and decided I liked it too much as an archtop. When I moved on to a prewar flathead, I sold the 3 to someone who enjoys the sound as much as I did. It's still around in its original form and I get to visit it every couple of weeks.

Ball bearings have one huge advantage over all the later cast-ring Gibsons: they're much lighter, which is super nice when you're in hour six of that marathon jam session. Properly set up, a BB can have most of the fullness and tone of the later models. If there's anything to be said against them, they don't have quite the same volume or power that a flathead or archtop has to cut through a bluegrass band, but if you're using the banjo for serious stage work and you have your own mic you can tweak the EQ and raise the level and it'll hold its own.

Sorry to say that the best way to decide on the sound you want is to own and live with a whole lot of banjos over a long period of time. It's expensive, but cheaper if you can actually bring yourself to sell each purchase to fund the next. You can't decide you like a banjo by playing Fireball Mail a couple of times - you have to see what each banjo does with different playing styles, in different situations, indoors and out, on a sound system and acoustically, in different seasons and even different weather conditions. Every banjo you play will add to your level of experience and make your next choice a better one, and make it easier to recognize when a banjo speaks to you. That way when you have to decide whether to mortgage the house or risk your marriage on a banjo, you can be more confident you're making a good long-term decision.

So, either find a very generous friend with a big collection and arrange for long term loans, or get ready for a few years or decades of very rewarding, if expensive, exploration.

I would'nt pay over $5000. For $8000 you can have a custom,high quality banjo made to your specifications, and gold plated, by a top Luthier.

My experience with a ball bearing model Gibson is that it sounds good in a jam session but it doesn't project well with a microphone.. It does have a good tone but it is not the same as a solid ring. I regret getting rid of mine because it was a nice change of pace from my flathead. In small venues it was definitely a better fit because it wasn't overpowering.

$7000 is a typical market price for an original TB Granada BB WITH a good quality 5 string neck.

A good quality 5 string neck is going to be around $1500, give or take. A substantial portion of the value of the banjo.

For an unconverted TB Granada, I think $6000 would be top dollar if in GREAT clean original condition.

A tone ring conversion is less expensive than a good 5 string neck. The least damaging tone ring conversion is the "drop in" BB to flat head one. They're in the market, both new used. No need to cut up a 97-98 year old banjo to increase its volume.

People who really like BB gold plated banjos like them clean and original. Tailpiece, tuners, nothing broken or repaired (except maybe the tenor neck), and a very good quality 5 string neck and 5 string case. Nevertheless, they are the least expensive prewar gold Mastertones. That's part of their charm.

If you want a gold Mastertone with volume and power, pay less for a post-1987 Granada.

I once had an original 1925 RB-3. Didn’t even change the 5th peg. The only “lack” was it didn’t have quite the volume of the later archtops. Perfect Stanley tone. I think I know where it is, and it’s still original. The last thing these banjos need is a “better” tone ring.

quote:

---

Originally posted by jan dupree

I would'nt pay over $5000. For $8000 you can have a custom,high quality banjo made to your specifications, and gold plated, by a top Luthier.

---

Obviously unless your specs require a BB tonering

quote:

---

Originally posted by leehar

I’m not sure those banjos “need” a ring conversion. From what I’ve heard and read here on the Hangout many of those old ball bearing Gibsons sound fantastic. If I could get a hold of one of them I believe I would just have a 5 string neck made for it and play it that way. At least for a while.

---

That's fair, I'm assuming whoever buys it would want a conversion ring made.

I personally like the deeper, sweeter tone of a ball-bearing. God forbid anyone ever cut the rim, however.

quote:

---

Originally posted by NotABanjoYoda

Based on the two threads you have on prewar granadas...It sounds like you dont know what your wanting or getting but deep down your gut thinks its prestigeous to get a Gibson Granada and then make it into a parts banjo.

I would suggest you buy a modern ESS or Granada. They will sound better than what your used to be prewar but now parts banjo will, satisfy your thinking on Gibson and save an antique from being mutilated. There is also plenty of granada parts banjos out there for cheaper.

I'm considering a Gibson Granada among others because of the curly maple and gold plated parts.

I specifically am interested in one from the 20s because I personally favor the range of tones from a two piece flange.

Ron Block and his 26 Granada have also been a great influence on me and if I were to get a Granada and try a conversion ring and like it better than the ball bearing, I may consider cutting or getting a tone ring mate for the full weight sound of a flathead.

Besides Scruggs owning one, I don't see the "prestige" of a Granada.

llastelick

From Ron Block

“For banjo I mostly use two Huber Ron Block models. They are maple, and patterned after my 1926 Gibson Granada. I used them for most of my new record. I also played a Rich & Taylor for the two tunes where I used Keith tuners."

Evolved beyond a Gibson.