Page: 1 2
The fact that the moderators do absolutely nothing, sometimes even encouraging them, to stop the a$$hole trolls on this website is reason #1 that BanjoHangout is basically a shell of it's former self and is disparaged on every other social media platform and usergroup on the internet.
How many great people have abandoned this website because of the argumentative ones? How many people interested in playing banjo and been discouraged and driven away because of how people on this website treat them when they ask simple questions? At this point, the trolls are basically the only ones left. It's nearly every single thread, too. And really, it's only like a half-dozen problem users, s***ting in the sandbox and ruining it for everyone else.
Go anywhere on the internet, any other website any other social media user group. They'll all tell you the same thing, "BHO used to be good, there's some knowledgeable industry insiders there, but it's mostly trolls and you should probably avoid it." The moderation team and their inaction towards trolls over the last several years is directly responsible for this reputation.
I 100% guarantee this post will be deleted by a moderator, and I'll get a little finger wag about making public comments about moderation policy and they'll suggest sending a PM which they'll ignore. But they won't say anything about the problem users that make this place suck.
Edited by - KCJones on 01/27/2023 07:39:44
We've all seen it. Mods will allow a troll to poke, poke, poke, poke at a value-adding contributor. Then the contributor gets mad and reacts to the troll. Then the mods delete the reaction, might even ban the contributor, but they allow the troll to remain.
I just generally disregard those posts that devolve into the situation you are talking about. I also think there are still good folks on here making good contributions, but don't deny the fact that some good people have decided to spend their time elsewhere. Guess nothing is perfect in this world as long as we are are in it.
Bobby
This screed itself strikes me as a trolling expedition, designed to whip up controversy. It's full of questionable accusations & exaggerations, w/ a little self -pity thrown in. I find the BHO as interesting & helpful as ever, especially to newbies.
(BTW, coffee is good for you, unless you drink too much & start writing harangues).
Edited by - tdennis on 01/27/2023 08:15:40
If you guys don't like the way we moderate, take it up with us or..... if you don't get any satisfaction from us.... take it up with Eric. He makes the rules, we follow them. If you don't like his rules, let him know. Maybe he'll change them, maybe he won't. It isn't up to us mods to change rules, just to follow them.
And any more bashing of mods will get this topic locked as it is against the rules that we have to live with.... whether you or I like it or not.
Edited to add: a troll is in the eye of the beholder. Anyone you don't like/agree with/do as you want seems to be a troll?
Edited by - Texasbanjo on 01/27/2023 08:42:24
This is in the rules, and it is 100% completely unenforced.
Courteous Communication
Communicating on the Web in an all-text medium is a challenge, and it's always good to think twice before you hit that "Post" button. Realize that each time you reply, you're replying to a real person, with real feelings just like yourself. Try to write messages that cannot be easily misunderstood or misconstrued to mean something you didn't mean. And please, please use descriptive subject lines when you post a new topic!
Also, despite what you claim we all know that Moderators have a lot of leeway on how they interpret and enforce rules. The primary purpose of a moderator on a forum is to foster a positive environment that will generate community participation. Saying, "well technically no specific rule was broken" is a cop-out. You are fully within your power to, at a minimum, delete posts that are rude or off-topic. Especially when those posts are intentionally rude or off-topic and they come from the same users that are always rude and off-topic.
And it has absolutely nothing to do with "agreement", that is a total straw man. It has to do with people posting rude, argumentative, off-topic troll posts in an attempt to derail constructive discussions.
Edited by - KCJones on 01/27/2023 09:11:35
In the years I’ve been a member here I have witnessed some very snarky and unnecessary comments to questions posted by a beginner. It really doesn’t seem to be that frequent. Perhaps the “old timers,” myself included, forget what it was like to be a beginner. We certainly can and should reiterate to them that there are hundreds of archived discussions available on the site. However, this needs to be done without being rude. If you checked the box for “Helping” on your profile be prepared to help or stay off of the discussion altogether.
I think the subject editor is way out of line. I read BHO daily and am continually and frequently amazed at the thoughtful, helpful responses people give to what seems to me as simplistic and silly questions. However, many others take the time to answer in helpful ways.
"Edited to add: a troll is in the eye of the beholder. Anyone you don't like/agree with/do as you want seems to be a troll? "
Convenient definition but not correct. A troll is a mythical creature that sits under bridges staking out what they perceive as thier territory and starting trouble whenever they can.
In internet terms, they sit and wait until whomever they want to bother that day crosses their path and then they follow them onto multiple threads to cause trouble. Internet trolls seek out creating conflict just to do it.
As a newbie to bho I can tell you there is a troll problem here. It is not a huge problem since there are relatively few total posts on bho at all, but enough that it makes it real hard to see the point of asking a question here knowing the trolls will quickly yank it off topic with their hatred.
I have a list of trolls on bho. My list only has 4 names, pretty small list. 2 of them troll daily. Just wait, they will post on this thread also, quoting, tagging thier victims, and trying to flame it up.
Everyone defends themselves on occasion and fights back against trolls. This is also unnecesary but we are all guilty. Defense posts should not be necessary and that is a good moderator discussion.
Edited by - NotABanjoYoda on 01/27/2023 09:43:11
I have immensely enjoyed BHO for all the years I have been a member. The only people I have noticed that are awful are the bluegrass police who like to criticize new music and tell new players looking for Trampled by Turtles or Caamp or Yonder Mountain, etc. tabs or advice that the music that interests them is garbage. I don’t know that they are trolls, I just think they are curmudgeons, and they exist everywhere.
I appreciate the moderators and folks who run the site and the helpful and fun contributors.
The quote flame wars are particularly tiring because they just take up so much space. It makes me wonder if these people realize that this is a threaded forum, and you can simply reply to a thread and it's already implied/understood that you're responding to the previous posts in that thread. There is no reason to quote someone if it's just 2-3 people going back and forth, the previous comments are already visible on the page if you scroll up a bit.
Obviously we can't mention names here, but like 'Yoda says it's the same half-dozen or so people over and over. Everyone reading this thread knows who we're talking about. And I'm sure they're reading this thread too, laughing giddily.
TX2AK this is totally off-topic but thank you for mentioning Caamp. I'd never heard of them before this thread and just checked them out. Good stuff!
curmudgeons, and thanks for that word, always makes me laugh. My term is Kufus.
Haha! That’s a new one on me! On the topic of good bands, do we have a group for fans of progressive folk / jamgrass / modern stringbands - or whatever label applies to those bands? I dang sure know you can’t call them bluegrass.
Sorry to hijacker’s the thread, but I hadn’t seen a group.
quote:
Originally posted by KCJones
that make this place suck.
Yet...here you are...again.
quote:
Originally posted by tdennisThis screed itself strikes me as a trolling expedition, designed to whip up controversy. It's full of questionable accusations & exaggerations, w/ a little self -pity thrown in. I find the BHO as interesting & helpful as ever, especially to newbies.
(BTW, coffee is good for you, unless you drink too much & start writing harangues).
This ^^^
quote:
Originally posted by KCJonesThis is in the rules, and it is 100% completely unenforced.
Courteous Communication
Communicating on the Web in an all-text medium is a challenge, and it's always good to think twice before you hit that "Post" button. Realize that each time you reply, you're replying to a real person, with real feelings just like yourself. Try to write messages that cannot be easily misunderstood or misconstrued to mean something you didn't mean. And please, please use descriptive subject lines when you post a new topic!Also, despite what you claim we all know that Moderators have a lot of leeway on how they interpret and enforce rules. The primary purpose of a moderator on a forum is to foster a positive environment that will generate community participation. Saying, "well technically no specific rule was broken" is a cop-out. You are fully within your power to, at a minimum, delete posts that are rude or off-topic. Especially when those posts are intentionally rude or off-topic and they come from the same users that are always rude and off-topic.
And it has absolutely nothing to do with "agreement", that is a total straw man. It has to do with people posting rude, argumentative, off-topic troll posts in an attempt to derail constructive discussions.
That's not a bright-line, enforceable rule..... How many of you notify the mods each and every time you see a rule broken? How many of you have tod Eric you'd like to moderate for BHO? As you know, the mods are volunteers; we are not on constant alert for 8-hour shifts, nor do we parse every phrase of every post. We can and do lock member accounts. Note that a strict enforcement of the relevant title rule would have gotten this thread locked at the outset. Same would go for many topic titles. Is that the kind of rule enforcement you want? Remember, if you see what you consider trolling, notify the mods and be clear about which post you mean. Don't encourage trolls by replying in any way.
I actually have volunteered to be a mod before. I suppose I've never reached out to Eric directly, maybe I should. I'm on this website basically all day. Beats working.
Moderation is hard. You can't make everyone happy. But the proof of the pudding is in the tasting, and the results of the current moderation practices are readily apparent for everyone to see. I do think stricter moderation would go a long ways, but I'm not sure if some of the big players would come back even if the trolling/flaming was curtailed. I don't think every rule needs to be enforced every time without exception, I think curtailing some of the obvious bad-faith posts that aren't technically against the rules is entirely possible and would improve things around here.
I know we're not supposed to discuss moderation policies. You're fully within your right to delete this post. But I don't think I'm alone in my opinion here.
And why do I post this? Why spend the time? What does it matter? Truthfully, it doesn't matter. But I do it because I love the banjo, and I recognize that BHO is such an incredible resource for the entire community, and there's a lot of awesome people here, and it could be so much better.
quote:
Originally posted by KCJones
I know we're not supposed to discuss moderation policies.
Yet you continue to do so...not a great example for a wannabe moderator to set.
As a moderator, fairly new one, too, on a board about parrots (the animals, not the drones), I can tell you that being a moderator, a voluntary position, is tough! Not only are you looking for spam, and other nefarious posts, double or suspect IP addresses and other nuts n bolts type of moderation, digging into the actual text and intent of a post is hard. The parrot site is truly international, so throw in folks for whom English is a second or third language, it's hard to put yourself into the position of the OP. Outright trolling (stirring up comments and disagreement) does occur, but not that often. Maybe it's because banjo players as a group tend to be hard-line individualists or harbor some sort of deep-seated resentment over the position of the banjo instrument in music, historically as an un-respected and overlooked one, closely associated with black face minstrel music and poor, uneducated individuals. We of course know differently!
So go easy on moderators! They are just enforcing the given rules of the specific board. There is a lot of subjectivity in moderation. The parrot forum moderators, though, discuss reactions to questionable posts, sometimes in great detail and almost surgical introspection, before actual moderation, revision, or outright banning an individual occurs. I would hope the mods here on BHO do so similarly.
And, coffee is a fluid of life! I will go thru ridiculous lengths to get that first Cup 'o Joe in the morning!
I'm trying to imaging what a troll post on a parrot forum would be like...
"I really like cockatoos...especially with stuffing and mashed potatoes".
I find coffee keeps me regular. However if I drink more than 1 cup, I get the shakes and can’t play my banjo too effectively.
It’s the internet, keep a thick skin and ignore the trolls and curmudgeons who feel like they gotta attack or steamroll others into their beliefs. Guess what happens, they go away because nobody will interact with them.
I admit I know a few that won’t have anything to do with BHO because of whatever reason. But even with social media, I still come here and peruse the sight, contribute some for whatever it’s worth, and look at banjos and classifieds. I even sold 2 or 3 over the years. BHO has sentimental value. I laugh at some of the hardliners. It’s funny. And there are some great folk here too.
quote:
Originally posted by JollyRogers
I find coffee keeps me regular.
Thanks for sharing that health tip.
quote:
Originally posted by OldNavyGuyquote:
Originally posted by JollyRogersI find coffee keeps me regular.
Thanks for sharing that health tip.
Your welcome, just trying to stay on topic, based on the title of the thread!
BTW/ I am an old navy guy myself. Retired afew years back.
Edited by - JollyRogers on 01/27/2023 13:02:53
quote:
Originally posted by JollyRogersYour welcome, just trying to stay on topic, based on the title of the thread!
BTW/ I am an old navy guy myself. Retired afew years back.
That thread title gets an A+ for subterfuge...
Congrats on retirement...I did 10 and got out.
Which reminds me—time for my afternoon cuppa joe. Doesn’t come from a white oak tree though.
So, long story short, coffee should be drunk in moderation.
Page: 1 2
Newest Posts
'Bartlett Banjo Mic' 1 hr
'1968 Gibson RB800' 1 hr
'Unmarked 39 Hook Banjo' 2 hrs
'1926 TB-1 conversion' 3 hrs
