I had edited my original post earlier, but after seeing some of the comments, I'm just going to lay it out there again, so I digress:
The current market of 4 string banjos would be an indication of it being true.
I don't see this forum as active as it used to be, yes, I used to be a member once upon a time.
The current offerings on the used markets are not what they used to be. Mostly Silver Bell No1's, Vegaphones, and Paramonf Style A's.
I remember just only 3 years ago, there used to be a plethora of No4 and higher, VegaVoxes, Epiphone Deluxes, high end OMEs, and of course banjos by Renee Karnes.
The reality that I've seen as I've bought a lot of these banjos, is that a lot of the old guard is passing away, so either their families are selling their banjos to local music stores, trashing them, or refusing to sell them because their dad/grandpa told them they were worth way more money than they are.
The stories I heard about the 70s, 80s, and 90s from my mentor, who was Perry Bechtel's protege told a different story than current state of affairs involving 4 string banjo.
There used to be many 'Banjoramas' in additional to FIGA/AllFrets.
As I said previously, the only time I see any bands with 4 string banjo, is at a retirement home.
I mean, I live in Los Angeles where the 1920s are immortalized and very few of these folks even know what a plectrum banjo is. They enjoy it when I play it, but it's more of a novelty to them than an instrument that is considered necessary.
I know it's not a pleasant conversation to have, but the reality right now is that 4 string banjos are often not talked about, most aren't interested in the music that is played on them, and the cost of them has diminished significantly.
I bought an all original Ne Plus Ultra No6 plectrum earlier this year for $5000.00 and the guy who sold it to me was so grateful to get it because he couldn't sell it.
Heck, a friend of mine just lost money on an OME Grand Artist Tenor by about 35% because no one wanted it. Even the music store he bought it from refused to even trade him out of it because they can't sell banjos at the moment, and their main business is banjos, and I'd almost promise every member of the 4 string collective of this forum has at least almost bought a banjo from them if not followed through with the purchase.
The writing is on the wall, and no comments about 'you're wrong' will change what's happening right now. I know it's unpleasant because we'd hate to think all of the years promoting the 4 string banjo ended up where you can't even give away a $15,000.00 OME, but we've arrived.
I say all of this because I don't want it to be this way. What's the next step? I'd think it would be to introduce more young people to the 4 string banjos and maybe show them how to play a more contemporary style alongside them playing and learning the traditional ways, because of course they're important.
Edited by - NePlusUltraNo6 on 01/13/2023 08:11:40
Your entire spiel is false.
Show me how. Prove me wrong.
jackryansullivan : In the past month, I sold a top-of-the-line Huber, two Bacon ff Professionals and a Chuck Lee (and also a Martin D12-35). They sold quickly, and all but one were to people substantially younger than I am. If you're interested, there's still a really fine Chuck Lee tubaphone for sale in the BHO classifieds. I donated a couple of low-end 5-strings to a youth program in South Carolina that has more kids signing up than they ever imagined. Admittedly, I'm old. I'm just thinning out a more-than-my-share collection.
I could rattle off a long list of great young banjo players.
Maybe the problem is typical plectrum banjo music. ;)
Jack, you must be living in the wrong place. Live and well here. You're vibe attracts your tribe!
2nd post and this
Move along
quote:
Originally posted by tdennisYour entire spiel is false.
I consider myself reasonably fluent in what Americans call "English", and am quite confused.
The OP's "entire spiel" seems to consist of two short phrases:
"Is the banjo dead? Except not."
In my perception, the OP seems to be asking if the banjo is dead, and then answering his own question in the negative, as if to claim the banjo is NOT dead.
I should like to have the OP expand on his original spiel, so as to clarify the inent of the message.
I'm in my 70s but know more banjo players in their 20s and 30s than in my age group. And when they play gigs, a ton of other young people show and pay money to hear. I've been in coffee shops where the barrista spies me carrying a banjo and right off asks me what I think of Roscoe Holcomb or Lee Sexton, or if I play Round Peak or some other style. Not what you would expect to hear fly out of the mouth of young people. So, there's a whole new generation that enjoy and are carrying on Old Time music, particularly with the banjo. You can find many of them posting videos on Instagram.
Banjo certainly isn't dead. Banjo is thriving. Particularly old-timey clawhammer type banjo styles. Bluegrass is trailing behind the old timey stuff but it also still has a reasonable following. From an builder/buyer standpoint, we're in a golden age of affordable high quality banjos being made, arguably the best it has ever been in the entire history of banjo.
But we are in the "4-string jazz, etc..." subforum. Can't say I've ever seen a band with a 4-string banjo, and I don't know anyone that plays one either.
Edited by - KCJones on 01/13/2023 05:30:54
quote:
Originally posted by mike gregoryquote:
Originally posted by tdennisYour entire spiel is false.
I consider myself reasonably fluent in what Americans call "English", and am quite confused.
The OP's "entire spiel" seems to consist of two short phrases:
"Is the banjo dead? Except not."
In my perception, the OP seems to be asking if the banjo is dead, and then answering his own question in the negative, as if to claim the banjo is NOT dead.
I should like to have the OP expand on his original spiel, so as to clarify the inent of the message.
His original post was longer. He edited it. It said something about nicer banjos not being sold and people not learning to play. Just a bunch of garbage really. I'm not sure what his purpose was.
seems to be the opposite around here. I was at a jam the other night there were literally 8 banjos, 2 guitars, a dobro, a bass, and a mandolin. Kinda ridiculous ratio but there were some really good banjo pickers there, and mostly in their 20's and 30's.
Yep , for a long time ............
apnews.com/article/c8e5cb251b8...d257ce924
quote:
Originally posted by the-fish2nd post and this
Move along
Lol. Yeah, that's the spirit.
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Hornetseems to be the opposite around here. I was at a jam the other night there were literally 8 banjos, 2 guitars, a dobro, a bass, and a mandolin. Kinda ridiculous ratio but there were some really good banjo pickers there, and mostly in their 20's and 30's.
Anthony / Mad Hornet...where is this jam you went to ? Me and my buddies are always up for new jams
What do you consider "central Ohio"....I'm in Akron (Northeast Ohio)
The original post was a long 10-12 sentence paragraph with grandiose declarations, & apocalyptic statements about the death of the banjo. (to paraphrase, ..no one is buying good banjos. ..no one is taking lessons. ..no one is playing banjo. clubs, jamming & festivals are closing.
By editing & eliminating the entire spiel this thread has been rendered incoherent. (Nice trick).
quote:
Originally posted by jdeluke137quote:
Originally posted by mike gregoryquote:
Originally posted by tdennisYour entire spiel is false.
I consider myself reasonably fluent in what Americans call "English", and am quite confused.
The OP's "entire spiel" seems to consist of two short phrases:
"Is the banjo dead? Except not."
In my perception, the OP seems to be asking if the banjo is dead, and then answering his own question in the negative, as if to claim the banjo is NOT dead.
I should like to have the OP expand on his original spiel, so as to clarify the inent of the message.
His original post was longer. He edited it. It said something about nicer banjos not being sold and people not learning to play. Just a bunch of garbage really. I'm not sure what his purpose was.
Fixed it for you, and I can assure you it isn't garbage.
quote:
Originally posted by tdennisThe original post was a long 10-12 sentence paragraph with grandiose declarations, & apocalyptic statements about the death of the banjo. (to paraphrase, ..no one is buying good banjos. ..no one is taking lessons. ..no one is playing banjo. clubs, jamming & festivals are closing.
By editing & eliminating the entire spiel this thread has been rendered incoherent. (Nice trick).
Hi there, I expounded even more for you in te original post now. I wish it were as simple as it being a trick that the 4 string banjo is going to pot but we could save it with a few lazy comments like 'Your entire spiel is false' but alas, it doesn't work that way.
Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.
Hell, I'm glad I offended you, at least you care about the 4 string banjo.
quote:
Originally posted by KCJonesBanjo certainly isn't dead. Banjo is thriving. Particularly old-timey clawhammer type banjo styles. Bluegrass is trailing behind the old timey stuff but it also still has a reasonable following. From an builder/buyer standpoint, we're in a golden age of affordable high quality banjos being made, arguably the best it has ever been in the entire history of banjo.
But we are in the "4-string jazz, etc..." subforum. Can't say I've ever seen a band with a 4-string banjo, and I don't know anyone that plays one either.
We're in the 4 string forum, and my post is specifically for it.
I think there are still plenty of Irish folk tenor players. Perhaps the jazz side is not doing so well.What seems to be the case when keeping an eye on the used market is that tenors don't seem to sell well except perhaps some of the expensive vintage instruments to collectors.
yes. 4-string banjo is functionally almost non-existent except mostly in the minds of old men who sell banjos to each other and tell each other banjo stories and declare it's a thriving... hobby? career? past-time? I mean, some people make careers out of being contortionists and ventriloquists, but are those career tracks really thriving? unless you're idiot-savant level amazing, there's only about 3 cities in the world you can make a living playing 4-string banjo, and that's assuming you also play guitar because you're gonna need to pick up every other gig you can find.
quote:
Originally posted by haildixonyes. 4-string banjo is functionally almost non-existent except mostly in the minds of old men who sell banjos to each other and tell each other banjo stories and declare it's a thriving... hobby? career? past-time? I mean, some people make careers out of being contortionists and ventriloquists, but are those career tracks really thriving? unless you're idiot-savant level amazing, there's only about 3 cities in the world you can make a living playing 4-string banjo, and that's assuming you also play guitar because you're gonna need to pick up every other gig you can find.
Finally, someone who's actually accepting that there is a major problem.
I don't really even see it as a problem. I mean, we're the ones that decided to pick up an instrument whose heyday was literally 100yrs ago. There's probably a harpsichord forum somewhere having this same discussion and guys named Otto and Ludwig are going "HARPSICHORD IS THRIVING!!! IT VILL NEVER DIE!"
This form is literally the largest group of banjoists online and I used to be a big contributor here, but haven't posted in a pretty long while. I log in and in the last 6 months in this forum theres like 7 posts? and i just see basically the same names here I've always seen talking about the same things. I'm not knocking anyones hobby, I love it, but come on.
Edited by - haildixon on 01/13/2023 08:42:46
I think the confusion here is generational. Young people in musicians circles still know about and are very interested in banjo PLAYING. But not collecting. They tend to trade up not buy and keep. They arent interested or generally capable of buying expensive jewels but the minimal purchase which still does the job.
But of course the 4 string is still less popular than the 5.
quote:
Originally posted by haildixonI don't really even see it as a problem. I mean, we're the ones that decided to pick up an instrument whose heyday was literally 100yrs ago. There's probably a harpsichord forum somewhere having this same discussion and guys named Otto and Ludwig are going "HARPSICHORD IS THRIVING!!! IT VILL NEVER DIE!"
This form is literally the largest group of banjoists online and I used to be a big contributor here, but haven't posted in a pretty long while. I log in and in the last 6 months in this forum theres like 7 posts? and i just see basically the same names here I've always seen talking about the same things. I'm not knocking anyones hobby, I love it, but come on.
Again, I agree with you. It's just a shame that I can.
I love 4-string banjos, especially vintage ones. They're a great platform for conversion to 5-string. And those old dry necks make great kindling. 
Jokes aside, unless we see a modern Earl Scruggs or Pete Seeger come along and play the 4-string in a pop music setting, or a Hollywood movie where the main character plays 4-string banjo, I don't see how it's going to survive as anything more than a very small niche hobby. Because from what I can tell, that's what drives the wax/wane of popularity of these types of things.
quote:
Originally posted by KCJonesI love 4-string banjos, especially vintage ones. They're a great platform for conversion to 5-string. And those old dry necks make great kindling.
Jokes aside, unless we see a modern Earl Scruggs or Pete Seeger come along and play the 4-string in a pop music setting, or a Hollywood movie where the main character plays 4-string banjo, I don't see how it's going to survive as anything more than a very small niche hobby. Because from what I can tell, that's what drives the wax/wane of popularity of these types of things.
5 string isn't far behind. Less and less are selling each day.
