I acquired this unmarked New York banjo today. It probably would have had wooden friction pegs originally. The peghead is reminiscent of Morrison, albeit cruder. I can't recall seeing rivetted brackets like these on a similar banjo. If it is a Morrison, then it's earlier than this one, which predates the 1882 patent but is still more mature than mine.
banjohangout.org/archive/377099
I'll tentatively call mine circa 1870s unless something more definitive emerges.
Edited by - csacwp on 01/12/2023 18:08:50
Hey John - your banjo has some of the features of the pot in your link...... the globe shoe is pretty distinctive, and many of the other parts on your banjo are "motley".
I've seen a few unlabeled banjos that I would describe as "Buckbee after the style of Morrison"..... your link banjo also has the first written "Morrison" identifier that I recall seeing. FWIW, here's a Stewart neck on a "Morrison"-stamped pot that is currently on eBay.
ebay.com/itm/115669273778?hash...9bt_LO1YQ
quote:
Originally posted by Mark RalstonHey John - your banjo has some of the features of the pot in your link...... the globe shoe is pretty distinctive, and many of the other parts on your banjo are "motley".
I've seen a few unlabeled banjos that I would describe as "Buckbee after the style of Morrison"..... your link banjo also has the first written "Morrison" identifier that I recall seeing. FWIW, here's a Stewart neck on a "Morrison"-stamped pot that is currently on eBay.
ebay.com/itm/115669273778?hash...9bt_LO1YQ
That ebay banjo is a parts banjo someone cobbled together. It would be incredibly unlikely to the point of improbable for Stewart to use a branded rim from another maker. Stewart did use rims in his early years from Schall (as did many others) but they were "branded" Stewart.
Edited by - Joel Hooks on 01/13/2023 06:20:20
Hey Joel - yes, the eBay banjo I referenced is like Dolly Parton's "coat of many colors". In responding to John's post, I searched for a neutral way to reference the "greatly varied [parts] elements" of John's banjo........ the descriptor "motley" (en.wiktionary.org/wiki/motley) fits the bill. Same goes for the Stewart/Morrison on eBay.
If your ears were burning yesterday, it may be because I was discussing your "B. Gibbs" repro bridges with someone who seeks a period-correct bridge for his SSS banjo.
Morrison seems to have been quite keen on identifying himself as the maker of his instruments, whether with the earlier engraved plates (of which I've seen a couple) or the later stamp. I'd probably expect anything he made to be marked in such a way. Are there any empty screw or nail holes that might have held a plate on?
The peghead shape most often seen on Morrison banjos also turns up on a number of other non-Morrison instruments, and seems to have been somewhat generic to the "NYC school".
It would be interesting to know whether the "rivet" portion of those shoes is part of the shoe casting, or if they are conventionally threaded shoes with the rivet portion screwed in. The former would suggest earlier manufacture.
Here's a photo of a fairly old banjo that, as far as I can tell, was originally put together using rivets to fasten metal-to-metal (shoes to pot, join ends of pot wall strips, etc.) Some (apparently later) repairs were done using metal screws that were cut to size and then the end was hammered (peened) to flatten and to expand the screw like a rivet. I wonder if this was done with some of the shoe hardware on John's banjo ?
John's banjo appears to have two globe shoes attached using threaded shafts, the other shoe attachments appear to be bolts or else rivets/peened metal.
I’ve been looking at and collecting NY banjos for quite a few years. That particular peghead shape is found on banjos marked E.D.Lewis, a “maker” who was located in NY. Whether he actually made banjos is open to question. As noted the peghead shape is different from that on the basic patent model Morrison banjo.
I’ve owned a few marked Lewis banjos and a few banjos that were unmarked but virtually identical to some Lewis banjos. Most often, Lewis banjos had some metal inlays. The inlay right above the nut on your banjo is almost always seen at the base of the fingerboard on Lewis banjos, although it is usually a solid piece without the cutouts.
I have a rosewood neck fretless banjo with your peghead shape that is, I believe, an unmarked Lewis. It has riveted shoes and the neck shape is quite like yours. The shoes are different in shape than yours. The banjo is from the same era as yours. To my eye, your banjo is clearly more Lewis than Morrison.
Now a digression.
After seeing a whole lot of NY banjos, my own pet theory (belief) is that many NY makers or sellers may have had their rims (patented or otherwise) made separately and some large maker (likely the almighty Buckbee) made the necks for them, and he started with a few basic shapes from which a customer could choose. A slightly different statement than the usual “Buckbee made it.”
Just my own belief, take it leave it. But I have banjos marked Bogan, Hammig, GC Dobson, Morrison (serial No.1) and Oatley plus a couple others all with the identical peghead shape , but with completely different rim assemblies.
I put Lewis banjos in the same camp; rims and necks may have been made in different places.
Then again, Buckbee could have made an incredible variety of patented banjo rims, with all kinds of different hardware. Now that would have been a factory to visit! Who knows. All in good fun.
Thanks for putting your banjo on the forum.
