If they don't put the original company's name/logo on the instrument, then I have no problem. Keep in mind that the US big boys licensed copies of their instruments to be made overseas. Epiphones were Gibson authorized copies. Fender has (or had) copies made in Mexico, Japan, and Korea.

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Originally posted by heavy5

What are your thoughts on buying these instruments ?

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The same as on buying pizza not made by Italians.

Well I do no that the pizzas made in the shop down the street are not made by child slave labor at gunpoint. For that reason alone I avoid anything China whenever possible, even if it means paying more.

I follow Mad Hornets comment, I avoid buying things made from China and other countries known to use forced labor of all ages, to quality, I am older with expendable income, so for those with less means, and want to play banjo or another instrument then go for it.

I can't afford not buying Chinese products.I love my solid rosewood/spruce Flinthill dreadnaught.
I took it in to a big music store in Augusta Maine for pick-up and strap pin installation and when the shop guy handed it back to me he said "Nice guitar."
It cost $232 brand-new and came with a solid wood ukelele as a gift.

I should have bought a dozen back then as they are out of business,now.
I buy Chinese products every time I go shopping.Some of my favorite cue sticks were made in China.

Starting from the 1950s All most all of our great tool companies of yester year jumped on the== cheap labor products --brought here by barges ---Their buildings shut down and tooling junked==No one country really has much clout on this now--If enough of your competitors are cutting your prices by human mistreatment and you want to stay in the running --it may be the only usable solution---sad I miss the proud workers of our heydey

Let’s stick to banjos & avoid politics. Most labor in developing counties is exploited and underpaid by US standards, and assuredly we would not be communicating here without electronics made in China and other Asian countries. That said, British banjo makers were copying American instruments decades before Japan, Korea and China got into the act. While most of my banjos are US-made, Besides my 4 British Essexes, i have an RK-35 and a Bernunzio/Eastman WL copy (flush-fret) because I use neither enough to justify the cost of US-made similar banjos. The background and reasons for the Asian instruments go back to the roots of US history and is a highly political discussion—not BHO Fodder.

does made in china mean taiwan or does it mean red china?

A lot of kids would go without a quality instrument if it weren't for Chinese deals.

More fodder ;
While a Saga dealer in the 70's , Dick Keldsen , founder of Saga , informed us dealers he was getting a batch of dreadnought guitars from Israel , rosewood & spruce , hand crafted by a company , Yuval . They were just under $200 w/ a VG case , & I bought 3 , sold 2 , & still have the one I take to jams . As best these` old eyes can delineate , the rosewood is solid ! 

As near as I can tell Bill , there's only one person oddly enough , bringing politics into this post .  

I am very surprised this post disturbed any one here , but u never know about people !
I don't feel comfortable or intimidated about it but understand why so I'm going to ask to have the thread canned .

@Tractor1, made in China means made in Red mainland China.

I have been to the soft underbelly of manufacturing in China. While not 'forced' ie: at gunpoint labor, manufacturers in China make it difficult for a laborer to move around. The company provides shelter in the form of bad tenement style housing, along with electricity, and water (no heat). Some provide meals in a cafeteria style setting, meaning you eat what is served. Low wages provided do not allow you to get an apartment outside the company grounds. The skilled workers of course earn more and are more likely to live outside the grounds. Still, once you get outside the shiny cities like SHenzhen, SHanghai etc, mainland China looks and feels more like the urban US of 90+yrs ago. Dirty, unkempt, overcrowded and third world.

If you are working for Foxconn, Plexus, Jabil, Flextronics, thats a different story, but manufacturing for low tech stuff like musical instruments, medical masks, and fasteners ( my field), its very 3rd world.

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Originally posted by Mad Hornet

Well I do no that the pizzas made in the shop down the street are not made by child slave labor at gunpoint. For that reason alone I avoid anything China whenever possible, even if it means paying more.

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I don't recall anyone ever alleging or demonstrating that Recording King and Gold Star banjos are made by child slave laborers working at gunpoint. Instrument making -- even in a high volume factory setting -- takes some skilled labor. Of course, craftspeople in China don't eearn what they do in the U.S. But until someone can demonstrate otherwise, I have no reason to believe the artisans and assemblers at Recording King and Gold Star (Saga) are underpaid or exploited.

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

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Originally posted by Mad Hornet

Well I do no that the pizzas made in the shop down the street are not made by child slave labor at gunpoint. For that reason alone I avoid anything China whenever possible, even if it means paying more.

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I don't recall anyone ever alleging or demonstrating that Recording King and Gold Star banjos are made by child slave laborers working at gunpoint. Instrument making -- even in a high volume factory setting -- takes some skilled labor. Of course, craftspeople in China don't eearn what they do in the U.S. But until someone can demonstrate otherwise, I have no reason to believe the artisans and assemblers at Recording King and Gold Star (Saga) are underpaid or exploited.

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I posed the question here in a previous thread specifically about those two companies and of all the folks in the know here all I got was crickets.

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Originally posted by heavy5

I know there are folks near & dear to US products out of production & new , that don't like foreign efforts to copy & sell our US designs IE Martin guitars , myself included , --- to a point .
We both know this goes on & will probably continue .
I know of an 84 yr old collector who has always wanted a 000 45 Martin guitar but of course he couldn't afford one so he just bought a used one here made in China for $400 & is as happy as u can imagine ! Solid rosewood back & sides , 12 fret , slot head , forward X bracing , real abalone ,& it sounds & looks great !  No ref anywhere on the guitar to Martin .
Well I succumbed , & would probably do it again !

What are your thoughts on buying these instruments ?

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If just asking about foreign efforts to copy & sell our US designs.

I don't think a "country" can really claim ownership of a design.

Copying and selling instruments originally designed in other countries has been going on a  long time, probably since the start. Lot's of folks think that's good idea to copy what works.

I'm fine with copy of violins, based on design originated of Italians, for example Stratavarious. There are makers in the about every country, (inc US) that purposely try and copy every aspect of some of those violins. No mention of Stradavarious on them. Usually clear in putting the actual maker's name/label. Some were and are made in more mass production, factory process... sell for less money.  I personally don't have problem buying any of these instruments. 

FWIW, there are also some US luthiers (who are not Martin) that copy and sell instruments based on details of a Martin 000 45; using solid rosewood back & sides , 12 fret , slot head, forward X bracing , real abalone. Similarly, they usually are clear in puting the maker's name/label. I also wouldn't have problem buying these instruments.

edit: should note that a lot of big instrument makers, including Martin... mass produce instruments in other countries, which sell for less money, based on copying their own historic design; and some do not say Martin on them, as many makers own other label/badge names.

When I bought my StewMac Vintage kit in '86 it came already fretted and inlaid (H&F or FE) in the Gibson design.They also offered the kit in gold plated Granada engraved with Granada tailpiece.
I believe Gibson made them stop doing that.
I suppose that kind of kit could be offered again with Gibson's opinion out of the process.

I bought a complete 9469-44 tb-2 in '98 and took it to Jimmy Cox for a double conversion.I wanted a Flying Eagle pattern (Jim called it a Reno pattern) with a peghead name "Cox" and he said he couldn't do that because Gibson said the original Gibson tenor had to have a totally Gibson styled replacement neck.

I guess those kinds of scrutiny disappeared from Gibson.Seems like these kinds of protections change with company priorities.

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Originally posted by Bill Rogers

Let’s stick to banjos & avoid politics. Most labor in developing counties is exploited and underpaid by US standards, and assuredly we would not be communicating here without electronics made in China and other Asian countries. That said, British banjo makers were copying American instruments decades before Japan, Korea and China got into the act. While most of my banjos are US-made, Besides my 4 British Essexes, i have an RK-35 and a Bernunzio/Eastman WL copy (flush-fret) because I use neither enough to justify the cost of US-made similar banjos. The background and reasons for the Asian instruments go back to the roots of US history and is a highly political discussion—not BHO Fodder.

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Technically speaking, Prewar British made banjos were made for the British market with the hope of some export as an expanded market (with little to no success).  In the same subject the British also plagiarized and published mountains of US composer's banjo music, again, for selling to a domestic British market. 

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Originally posted by Bill Rogers

Let’s stick to banjos & avoid politics. Most labor in developing counties is exploited and underpaid by US standards, and assuredly we would not be communicating here without electronics made in China and other Asian countries. That said, British banjo makers were copying American instruments decades before Japan, Korea and China got into the act. While most of my banjos are US-made, Besides my 4 British Essexes, i have an RK-35 and a Bernunzio/Eastman WL copy (flush-fret) because I use neither enough to justify the cost of US-made similar banjos. The background and reasons for the Asian instruments go back to the roots of US history and is a highly political discussion—not BHO Fodder.

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How about Pruca banjos? I heard an interesting story, on the internet, about someone over there reverse engineering a Stelling banjo. I haven't heard any negative comments about Pruca banjos. And everything on the internet can be taken as gospel, right?

If Stelling is out of business are any of its patents enforceable?

Wouldn't think Pruca would spend the time & money replicating Stelling if there were patent risks ?

These days "made in America" means made by an American company with non American employees.

Ev

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Originally posted by heavy5

Wouldn't think Pruca would spend the time & money replicating Stelling if there were patent risks ?

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Were that the case, Geoff would be justifiably irritated, to say the least. As I recall, the article mentioned, (evidently no longer in circulation,) was rather dubious about the whole affair anyway. By the Pruca website, their banjos appear lacking any Stelling characteristics.

I think Jarda Prucha may have started out by trying to copy Stelling--possibly before the Iron Curtain came down--but for years he's been producing his own designs.

I think Prucha now is the main source for metal parts for most boutique banjo builders including some of the reputed American names in the business.

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Originally posted by heavy5

I am very surprised this post disturbed any one here , but u never know about people !
I don't feel comfortable or intimidated about it but understand why so I'm going to ask to have the thread canned .

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Bob,

Good post. Everyone is fine.

Thanks,

ken