I play a number of tunes from the 30's and 40's, and have occasionally run across a chord symbol that I'm not sure about: it's "D7#5," "G7#5," "C7#5" and so on. My knowledge of music theory and chord changes gets pretty thin after I reach the 9ths, 11ths, and minor 7ths!
I've been substituting a diminished chord for any of these "X7#5" chords, by placing the melody note on the D string to locate an appropriate diminished chord (it's usually a C, G or B diminished). [I'm using standard plectrum CGBD tuning.] While this seems to work well, I know it's an "ear" solution as opposed to a technical and musically correct one.
So I'm curious as to exactly what a "X7#5" chord is, how to finger it properly, and if my "diminished chord" fix even came close to approximating the true answer. Thanks in advance for your help with this! SETH
Here's an article on dominant 7th sharp 5th chords, also known as augmented fifth chords or augmented seventh chords. The chord shapes at the link are all for guitar, but the theory is the same.
Edited by - Old Hickory on 12/27/2022 09:05:32
That's a X7 Sharp 5. So you are sharpening the fifth. In a G chord D is the fifth.
As an example, take the G7 played at the third fret. 1st string third fret, second string third fret, third sting fourth fret, fourth string fifth fret.
Move the second string down one fret. It would be 1st string third fret, second string fourth fret, third sting fourth fret, fourth string fifth fret.
That is a closed shape, and moveable all over the neck.
Edited by - NewBlackDak on 12/27/2022 09:10:31
https://www.scales-chords.com/chord-charts/banjo-D7s5-d-n-l-v-x-12-11-11-10.png
https://www.scales-chords.com/chord-charts/banjo-G7s5-g-n-l-v-x-5-4-4-3.png
https://www.scales-chords.com/chord-charts/banjo-C7s5-c-n-l-v-x-10-9-9-8.png
https://www.scales-chords.com/chord-charts/banjo-C7s5_Bb-c-n-l-v-x-8-9-9-10.png
Thanks to everyone who replied! Rick, from the looks of the fingering chart you supplied, it seems like these "X7#5" chords are actually what I know as augmented chords. So for example, at least the way I was taught, a Bb Major chord (fretted at the second fret on the C string, and the third fret for all other strings) can be made into a Bb+ chord by fretting the D string one fret further up the neck, on the fourth fret.
And surprisingly, the G7 chord that was mentioned which starts at the third fret, doesn't look like the G7 chord that I learned. My G7 chord is fretted at the third fret on the B string, the fourth fret on the G string, the fifth fret on the C string, and the fifth fret on the D string --- according to my 50-year old "Mel Bay Banjo Chords" booklet. And this would be a closed (movable) chord, not an open chord as shown in the recent posting.
I'm aware that there are lots of different fingerings for the same basic chords, but I was still surprised to see that open G7 chord fingering. I know at least two other open G7 fingerings, but had never seen that particular one. So I learn something new every day! SETH
quote:
Originally posted by sethbAnd surprisingly, the G7 chord that was mentioned which starts at the third fret, doesn't look like the G7 chord that I learned. My G7 chord is fretted . . . fifth fret on the C string,
There's your difference right there. The suggestions above were for G tuning, so the low string is D. You're in C tuning.
Regardless of tuning, G7 is spelled G-B-D-F Order doesn't matter. But some of the suggestions above -- in G tuning -- gave the notes in exactly that "root" order: G 4th @ 5; B 3rd @ 4; D 2nd @ 3; F 1st @ 3
If your 4th/low string is C, you'll be fretting that string differently. If you put the F note on 4th string, you need a G somewhere else. You're getting it on 1st @ 5.
Ken --- Thanks for clearing that up! When I originally posted, I noted that I was using standard CGBD plectrum tuning, so I incorrectly assumed that the replies would take that tuning into account in their replies.
I'm not quite sure what DGBD tuning is used for, but I'm guessing that it's probably mostly for the 5-string fingerpickers, as in gDGBD. SETH
Edited by - sethb on 12/28/2022 15:42:21
quote:
Originally posted by sethbDGBD tuning
I think I read Sean Moyses plays plectrum in DGBD, although I might have got that wrong. Never tried it tbh but if he does then it's evidently not much of a hindrance.
The 7th can be eliminated if necessary. For example, a raised "g" in the C+ chord will resolve to an A (the 3rd) in an f chord; the "Bb in the C7 chord also resolves to an A.
In CGBD tuning, one can simply play a normal 1st position C chord, then fret at the 1t fret on the Gstring, then to a normal F chord. or one can go with the same fingering as a barre chord in any other key.
An C7#v also resolves nicely to A minor. There are, of course other less conventional uses for a 7#5 chord.
Hi Seth
DGBD (4th to string) is a great sound--though not as common as the normal CGBD. Check out the late great Ken Harvey who played the D tuning--so good. To my ears the D tuning is a bit more on the 'jazzer' side of life.
If in doubt on a chord try a diminished chord--it may add a bit of 'flavour' to a tune.
Not all chords need to contain the root note.
Hope this helps.
In thinking about this a bit further, I realized that the DGBD tuning is very close to DGBE, which is known as "Chicago Tuning," and which is also the top four stings of standard guitar tuning. There are plenty of guitar players who are using Chicago Tuning to double on banjo, so I figure it's only fair to use a plectrum banjo tuning for a guitar! While that CGBD tuning on a guitar sounds OK, it can be a bit tinny -- after all it IS a banjo tuning. So I recently got myself an octave pedal to plug into the signal chain; it drops the entire electric guitar output one full octave, so it really does sounds more like a guitar and has a good rich tone.
Ironically, my tenor archtop guitar that's tuned to CGBD uses the four top strings in a standard set of 12-gauge guitar strings. I tune the D string down to C for my first (bass) string, and then tune the E string down to a D for my fourth string. The two heavier guitar bass strings are either tossed or given to one of my 6-string friends for spares. SETH
quote:
Originally posted by Hot Club ManHi Seth
If in doubt on a chord try a diminished chord--it may add a bit of 'flavour' to a tune.
Michael --- Thanks for the reminder about those diminished chords, it's good advice.
I've often found that when I'm stuck for an appropriate chord for a particular note in chord melody (or I know but just can't reach/play the correct chord), a diminished chord will usually serve as a good "Band-Aid," and a substitute for the real McCoy. SETH
