This was brought to me to bring up to playing condition. It doesn't look like it's been played too much. Frets show very little ware. Neck seems to be straight. The owner said that he was told that it was homemade, but it sure doesn't look like it to me.
So, if it's not homemade, I need help with identifying it. It looks a lot like early Sears banjos?? Any help is appreciated.
Oh, the tailpiece is made of wood! That just might be homemade. Anyone ever heard of a wood tailpiece??
This is not going to help much but I once owned a couple of "Concertone" branded (Montgomery Ward) banjos that are similar to your banjo - one tenor & one 5-string. Might provide a clue. I was never able to identify the banjo manufacturer.
I'm pretty sure that is a Lyon & Healy built banjo from the teens
John, that Concertone sure looks a lot like what I have. Do you have any idea of the year of manufacture of yours??
It might have been made by several different sets of hands in a New York City or Chicago factory.
One more Concertone. Have no strong idea when these were made. But from the tenor which is pretty much identical to the 5-string I'd guess 1920
BTW - I thought Lyon & Healy divested their small goods fretted string instrument business in 1908. Not Washburn but IMO the OP banjo is not a Washburn.
Edited by - beezaboy on 12/03/2022 10:53:04
Old old banjos have wood tailpieces. I made the oak one when I first tried Aquila strings, and there was lots of talk about sharp metal edges and breakage.
Maybe Gretsch made.
Here are pictures of the wood tailpiece. There is a piece broken off but I think it was just cosmetic and covered the string ends. Looks like it might actually work. I might try to use it if the owner wants to.
Fiddles have wood tailpieces, gourd banjos have wooden tailpieces.
Some banjos I made have wooden tailpieces.
No big surprise.
Good standard 16 flat hook spec
To me the wooden tailpieces are extra
I really enjoyed David Pollitzer’s wooden starlight pull. Can one license?
I don’t think it’s Monkey Awards
Entry level Lyon and Healy The friction pegs
I must add that in my opinion anything wooden adds voice and character that gets better with time
And can’t be obtained in any other way than playing
Recent Falcon Party. All is well
Edited by - Helix on 12/03/2022 14:07:50
STARLIGHT PULL it is
quote:
Originally posted by HelixGood standard 16 flat hook spec
To me the wooden tailpieces are extra
I really enjoyed David Pollitzer’s wooden starlight pull. Can one license?
I don’t think it’s Monkey Awards
Entry level Lyon and Healy The friction pegs
Every Lyon and Healy that I have seen has a much different head stock (shape). But I could be wrong.
Could have been made by any of several makers. Montgomery Wards never made banjos; "Concertones" were made by others for them, much as the "Supertone" line was not made by Sears, but for Sears.
The neck attachment hardware is missing and needs to be replaced before strings are attached. It's too bad, because some makers (Gretsch, Oscar Schmidt. for examples) had unique designs for this hardware and can be a major clue for I.D.
Many very old banjos used wooden tailpieces, but in this case, it is not original.
When stringing this, it would be best to use nylon strings.
quote:
Originally posted by G Edward PorgieThe neck attachment hardware is missing and needs to be replaced before strings are attached. It's too bad, because some makers (Gretsch, Oscar Schmidt. for examples) had unique designs for this hardware and can be a major clue for I.D.
When I was taking it apart to start the restoration process I noticed that the neck attachment was not as expected. Someone has changed it. I am pretty sure that there should be a wooden wedge on top of the rod, where it passes through the pot. The photo of the beezaboy's Concertone pot shows a wedge like that on top of the rod. Anyway, this one had the wedge on the bottom of the rod, and a modern screw holding it in. In other words, someone had made that change to lower the neck. I'll likely have to manufacture something to make the neck sit at the correct location.
I guess it's possible that there was some sort of metal hardware but not on this one. I've worked on several old Sears, etc. that had some sort of metal bracket that tightens the neck-pot connecion.
quote:
Originally posted by YbanjoThis was brought to me to bring up to playing condition. It doesn't look like it's been played too much. Frets show very little ware. Neck seems to be straight. The owner said that he was told that it was homemade, but it sure doesn't look like it to me.
The pot looks a lot like my Bruno. Here's a partial picture of the pot that I uploaded for other purposes. The pot is made of a single piece of wood, that is wrapped around three times and has no tone ring, but was thinned at about a 45 degree angle where the head is mounted. It has the same hole in the dowel, which I have an adapter piece to hold the two wedges. The peg head is a different shape. Let me know if you'd like more pictures of my Bruno (the original pear wood finger board has been replaced.
Carl, is that original to the banjo? Or something you created?
Attached is Montgomery Ward Concertone Banjos Fall/Winter 1920-'21. Your banjo could be like Ward's 151C6761 ($10.80). The scan is not great - I got it from a friend.
As far as manufacturer it's almost like a process of elimination which is almost hopeless but there were outfits like Albert Houdlett & Sons in New York and Oscar Schmidt in Jersey City that were building something for the trade but who knows what!
So far it sure looks like the Montgomery Ward banjos. I'm sure other companies (Sears, etc.) might sell the same things but it looks like we're getting pretty close.
quote:
Originally posted by Ybanjoquote:
Originally posted by G Edward PorgieThe neck attachment hardware is missing and needs to be replaced before strings are attached. It's too bad, because some makers (Gretsch, Oscar Schmidt. for examples) had unique designs for this hardware and can be a major clue for I.D.
When I was taking it apart to start the restoration process I noticed that the neck attachment was not as expected. Someone has changed it. I am pretty sure that there should be a wooden wedge on top of the rod, where it passes through the pot. The photo of the beezaboy's Concertone pot shows a wedge like that on top of the rod. Anyway, this one had the wedge on the bottom of the rod, and a modern screw holding it in. In other words, someone had made that change to lower the neck. I'll likely have to manufacture something to make the neck sit at the correct location.
I guess it's possible that there was some sort of metal hardware but not on this one. I've worked on several old Sears, etc. that had some sort of metal bracket that tightens the neck-pot connecion.
there appears to be a screw hole in the top of your dowelstick, which would indicate no wedge, but a metal piece that screwed in and had two wooden wedges between it and the rim. This was a very common method used by many makers.
Edited by - G Edward Porgie on 12/04/2022 20:34:07
quote:
Originally posted by YbanjoCarl, is that original to the banjo? Or something you created?
The banjo is all original, as I purchased it used in 1973, except for a new finger board which I had replaced in the early 1980s and had to create the piece and the shims to secure the neck to the pot. I've replaced the skin more than once. If you like to see more pictures, let me know.
