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Oct 31, 2022 - 7:53:20 AM
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5544 posts since 5/9/2007

smiley

I just viewed the video which fully demonstrates the

Smile Bridge

indecision

Oct 31, 2022 - 8:01:12 AM
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Players Union Member

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

28208 posts since 8/3/2003

?

Oct 31, 2022 - 8:50:16 AM
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KCJones

USA

1923 posts since 8/30/2012

I'm not sure which is more laughable: the idea that Deering invented this concept, or the fact that they spelled it "patened" on their labeling.

Oct 31, 2022 - 10:01:17 AM
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Fathand

Canada

12084 posts since 2/7/2008

I dunno, I have thrown out bridges that became warped like this, likely due to a head too loose causing the middle of the bridge to sink into the concave head.

Oct 31, 2022 - 10:17:31 AM
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7343 posts since 9/21/2007

They invented it.

Oct 31, 2022 - 10:20:45 AM
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ChunoTheDog

Canada

2015 posts since 8/9/2019

quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooks

They invented it.


I've seen bridges almost 100 years old with the middle foot shorter than the two outside feet.

It's nothing new nor innovative. As with almost everything Deering, it's just marketing.

Oct 31, 2022 - 10:44:44 AM
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5544 posts since 5/9/2007


It’s Scientific!

enlightened

Oct 31, 2022 - 10:48:49 AM
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7343 posts since 9/21/2007

quote:
Originally posted by ChunoTheDog
quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooks

They invented it.


I've seen bridges almost 100 years old with the middle foot shorter than the two outside feet.

It's nothing new nor innovative. As with almost everything Deering, it's just marketing.


They invented:

Rolled tone rings (of every description)

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20120222537A1

Bridge base plates

https://patents.google.com/patent/US8759650B2

Banjos made out of white oak

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170092237A1

Contoured banjo bridge

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170309259A1

These are all things they invented.  None of these things existed before they developed them.wink

Oct 31, 2022 - 10:57:30 AM
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ChunoTheDog

Canada

2015 posts since 8/9/2019

quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooks
quote:
Originally posted by ChunoTheDog
quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooks

They invented it.


I've seen bridges almost 100 years old with the middle foot shorter than the two outside feet.

It's nothing new nor innovative. As with almost everything Deering, it's just marketing.


They invented:

Rolled tone rings (of every description)

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20120222537A1

Bridge base plates

https://patents.google.com/patent/US8759650B2

Banjos made out of white oak

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170092237A1

Contoured banjo bridge

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170309259A1

These are all things they invented.  None of these things existed before they developed them.wink

 

 

I always forget Deering invented the time machine as well. It's too bad they don't ever have those for sale to the public. 

Oct 31, 2022 - 11:12:38 AM
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1465 posts since 1/9/2012

The Dobson brothers sued for patent protection. It got to the Supreme Court in 1893, and they lost. C.E. Dobson patented the internal resonator in 1888. Fred Bacon patented the internal resonator in 1906. The design and claims look the same to me, but Dobson didn't sue. I recall reading somewhere that S.S. Stewart thought patents to be a waste of effort because people will produce and sell your stuff anyway.

Aside from preventing long term sagging, I'm skeptical about the other claims for the curved-bottom bridge.

Oct 31, 2022 - 11:26:02 AM

7343 posts since 9/21/2007

They also hold trademarks for the names:

Fairbanks

S. S. Stewart

Cole

They attempted, and were unsuccessful, to trademark the names:

Orpheum

Paramount

Oct 31, 2022 - 12:07:59 PM
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2257 posts since 2/12/2009

I own both a Fairbanks and a Cole banjo that have never been near the Deering factory, should I make an ex gratia payment to them to make me feel better about myself ?

Oct 31, 2022 - 12:12:25 PM
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doryman

USA

1319 posts since 11/26/2012

Attention All Deering Haters. For this week and this week only, this is the designated thread for posting all the bad things about Deering. Repeating the bad things you wrote about Deering last week, last, month or last year is highly encouraged. The more you rant about the same thing, over and over again, the better! We simply cannot get enough of your wit and encyclopedic knowledge of all things bad about Deering.

Bonus points if you can add a few lines about your favorite banjo maker. You know the one; he's more or less retired and doesn't have a web page, he runs a workshop that occasionally employs his son-in-law, and sell his most excellent banjos, with a three year wait list, for a third of the price of those very, very bad Deering banjos.

Edited by - doryman on 10/31/2022 12:14:02

Oct 31, 2022 - 12:17:55 PM

ChunoTheDog

Canada

2015 posts since 8/9/2019

They invented the banjo, what's not to love???

Oct 31, 2022 - 1:06:57 PM
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7343 posts since 9/21/2007

quote:
Originally posted by doryman

Attention All Deering Haters. For this week and this week only, this is the designated thread for posting all the bad things about Deering. Repeating the bad things you wrote about Deering last week, last, month or last year is highly encouraged. The more you rant about the same thing, over and over again, the better! We simply cannot get enough of your wit and encyclopedic knowledge of all things bad about Deering.

Bonus points if you can add a few lines about your favorite banjo maker. You know the one; he's more or less retired and doesn't have a web page, he runs a workshop that occasionally employs his son-in-law, and sell his most excellent banjos, with a three year wait list, for a third of the price of those very, very bad Deering banjos.


Well, I've not written anything bad about them.  What I posted is all public record.

Is there something about these filings that you consider bad?

Edited by - Joel Hooks on 10/31/2022 13:11:47

Oct 31, 2022 - 1:25:38 PM

5544 posts since 5/9/2007

A partial quotation from the Deering white oak banjo patent:
“ … The present design achieves its intended purposes, objects and advantages over the prior art devices through a new, useful and unobvious combination of method steps and component elements …”

Deering states some results of their unobvious methods, including:

“The Serra Maple banjo is about 11.74 lbs. and the White Oak banjo is about 8.36 lbs. which is equal to about 28% less than the weight of the Sierra Maple banjo. By eliminating the tone ring and using white oak there is an improvement in the sound quality where white oak produces a brighter tone and a very sonar bass. It has a very “growly,” clear bass response producing about two to four decibels of increased volume, while significantly reducing the manufacturing costs over the Serra Maple banjo.”

Oct 31, 2022 - 1:27:56 PM
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doryman

USA

1319 posts since 11/26/2012

quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooks
quote:
Originally posted by doryman

Attention All Deering Haters. For this week and this week only, this is the designated thread for posting all the bad things about Deering. Repeating the bad things you wrote about Deering last week, last, month or last year is highly encouraged. The more you rant about the same thing, over and over again, the better! We simply cannot get enough of your wit and encyclopedic knowledge of all things bad about Deering.

Bonus points if you can add a few lines about your favorite banjo maker. You know the one; he's more or less retired and doesn't have a web page, he runs a workshop that occasionally employs his son-in-law, and sell his most excellent banjos, with a three year wait list, for a third of the price of those very, very bad Deering banjos.


Well, I've not written anything bad about them.  What I posted is all public record.

Is there something about these filings that you consider bad?


Other than the redundancy, you mean? 

Oct 31, 2022 - 2:06:22 PM

ChunoTheDog

Canada

2015 posts since 8/9/2019

quote:
Originally posted by doryman
quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooks
quote:
Originally posted by doryman

Attention All Deering Haters. For this week and this week only, this is the designated thread for posting all the bad things about Deering. Repeating the bad things you wrote about Deering last week, last, month or last year is highly encouraged. The more you rant about the same thing, over and over again, the better! We simply cannot get enough of your wit and encyclopedic knowledge of all things bad about Deering.

Bonus points if you can add a few lines about your favorite banjo maker. You know the one; he's more or less retired and doesn't have a web page, he runs a workshop that occasionally employs his son-in-law, and sell his most excellent banjos, with a three year wait list, for a third of the price of those very, very bad Deering banjos.


Well, I've not written anything bad about them.  What I posted is all public record.

Is there something about these filings that you consider bad?


Other than the redundancy, you mean? 

 


I will say, that Deering peghead shapes rub me the wrong way. And I've been trying to 'get used to them' for years and years.

 

That's all I got in the 'bad' category of Deering comments. 

Oct 31, 2022 - 3:42:10 PM
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13866 posts since 6/2/2008

I like Deering banjos and respect Greg Deering.

That said, I think it's ridiculous that Deering applied for patents on the designs or products listed above and just as ridiculous that they were granted. I can't believe Deering didn't know about prior art -- especially in the case of curved bottomed bridges -- or that a patent examiner couldn't quickly discover it. Maybe that's not their job.

I also can't believe that no one already making some of those things didn't contest the applications. It's my understanding it's easy and inexpensive (no lawyer required?) to submit information to the Patent Office demonstrating the design was already in use. I think even members of the public can send information, which I admit I didn't do.

In the realm of wide-ranging patents, I believe Tony Pass patented every way of making a banjo rim wider at the top than the bottom.

The good thing about all these patents is they expire. At a certain point in time, anybody can make products using the patented design with no need of license from or payment to the patent owner.

Trademarks, on the other hand, can last forever, so if Deering has trademarked the name "Smile Bridge," when the patent runs out no one else can call their curve-bottomed bridges "Smile." 

Edited by - Old Hickory on 10/31/2022 15:42:55

Nov 1, 2022 - 9:14:51 AM

2257 posts since 2/12/2009

quote:
Originally posted by doryman

Attention All Deering Haters. For this week and this week only, this is the designated thread for posting all the bad things about Deering. Repeating the bad things you wrote about Deering last week, last, month or last year is highly encouraged. The more you rant about the same thing, over and over again, the better! We simply cannot get enough of your wit and encyclopedic knowledge of all things bad about Deering.

Bonus points if you can add a few lines about your favorite banjo maker. You know the one; he's more or less retired and doesn't have a web page, he runs a workshop that occasionally employs his son-in-law, and sell his most excellent banjos, with a three year wait list, for a third of the price of those very, very bad Deering banjos.


I also have never posted anything negative about Deering banjos, in fact I have owned 3 of them and still play one today, its their take on a Vega Tubaphone and is one of my favourite instruments to play, even though there is not much about it that is original. My comments were jests made in the spirit of this thread with others, I see nobody hating Deering here, we are currently in the middle of another fad, paddle headstocks, hide heads and tubby plunky sounding banjos, this like others will pass so, I would not concern yourself too much about boutique makers, these too shall pass.

Nov 1, 2022 - 5:18:03 PM

5544 posts since 5/9/2007

quote:
Originally posted by spoonfed

... we are currently in the middle of another fad, paddle headstocks, hide heads and tubby plunky sounding banjos, this like others will pass so, I would not concern yourself too much about boutique makers, these too shall pass.

I feel that the work of "boutique" builders represents the heirloom banjos that will be held by future banjo players and family members.

I can't imagine that overpriced, factory produced,  railroad spikes instead of bone-piped, plastic headed,  cookie-cutter G-banjos will untimely stand the test of time.

You got your Rembrandts and your dogs playing poker.

Thank heavens there are those boutiques that favor quality over quantity.

Patents notwithstanding, the use of "a plurality of strings" will not require builders to bow toward the Deering factory.

Nov 2, 2022 - 5:03:08 AM

beegee

USA

23153 posts since 7/6/2005

quote:
Originally posted by KCJones

I'm not sure which is more laughable: the idea that Deering invented this concept, or the fact that they spelled it "patened" on their labeling.


Reminds me of of a perversion of the NC State Motto: " Esse Quam Videri "(To be, rather than to seem}

Nov 2, 2022 - 9:38:57 AM
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2257 posts since 2/12/2009

quote:
Originally posted by mrphysics55
quote:
Originally posted by spoonfed

... we are currently in the middle of another fad, paddle headstocks, hide heads and tubby plunky sounding banjos, this like others will pass so, I would not concern yourself too much about boutique makers, these too shall pass.

I feel that the work of "boutique" builders represents the heirloom banjos that will be held by future banjo players and family members.

I can't imagine that overpriced, factory produced,  railroad spikes instead of bone-piped, plastic headed,  cookie-cutter G-banjos will untimely stand the test of time.

You got your Rembrandts and your dogs playing poker.

Thank heavens there are those boutiques that favor quality over quantity.

Patents notwithstanding, the use of "a plurality of strings" will not require builders to bow toward the Deering factory.

 

Not sure I understand what you just posted, I guess you like modern boutique builders, no problem have fun !

 


Nov 7, 2022 - 11:22 AM
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Helix

USA

16351 posts since 8/30/2006

Thomas Jefferson started the patent office process

He borrowed the dumb waiter concept to lift hay in his barns

The inventor sued Jefferson and won

Nov 7, 2022 - 12:06:25 PM

ChunoTheDog

Canada

2015 posts since 8/9/2019

The first patent in US history dates to 1790 and was signed by George Washington himself, issued to a Vermonter who devised a way of producing potash for soil fertilization.

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