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Oct 5, 2022 - 6:50:50 PM
5920 posts since 10/12/2009

......or competition going on this week, to see who can post the worst, most un-informative, poorly worded, over-priced, downright "sad" For Sale ad, in the 'Hangout Classifieds ?

I'm just trying to have a little sarcastic, yet "caustic" humor here, which is why I'm not including any links to ads, etc....just look thru the Classifieds at what's been posted over the past 3 or 4 days, then tell me I'm wrong.

I imagine I'll get blasted for this post, but.......whatever.....

Oct 5, 2022 - 7:38:32 PM

2158 posts since 11/17/2018

quote:
Originally posted by RioStat

I'm just trying to have a little sarcastic, yet "caustic" humor here

 

Apparently...at another member's expense.

Oct 5, 2022 - 7:44:16 PM
Players Union Member

RioStat

USA

5920 posts since 10/12/2009

quote:
Originally posted by OldNavyGuy
quote:
Originally posted by RioStat

I'm just trying to have a little sarcastic, yet "caustic" humor here

 

Apparently...at another member's expense.


Wrong.......several others expense....

Oct 5, 2022 - 7:51:39 PM

2158 posts since 11/17/2018

That makes it even easier to see the kind of person you are.

Thanks man.

Won't be recommending you to anyone looking to buy anything banjo.

Edited by - OldNavyGuy on 10/05/2022 19:52:29

Oct 5, 2022 - 8:13:47 PM
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GStump

USA

479 posts since 9/12/2006

I'll weigh in - A bit of sarcasm now and then won't hurt a soul. I do agree that folks can use just a bit more care and thought when posting ads, or topics, or anything else for that matter. Hey, we've all probably done it. I don't suppose there is any harm as long as there is no malice involved and we can all laugh a bit, at ourselves, and yes, at others also. I think the world's population is certainly becoming so sensitive that anything which is perceived to be a "diss" at anything or anyone is automatically labeled as insensitive, uncaring, loathsome, and NOT a person that any sane individual would want to associate with! Yep, for sure - I speak sarcasm quite fluently! I have tried to develop an attitude that we are all here to help and to enjoy each other. Perhaps a world with no humor, or any crassness of any sort is the kind of world many folks would like to see, but as for me, I think that would be a pretty dull existence!

Oct 5, 2022 - 8:58:21 PM
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Bill Rogers (Moderator)

USA

26468 posts since 6/25/2005

I had noticed some pretty dicey ads already, so I don’t think the commentary/sarcasm was out of line. There were no personal attacks and readers were left to decide for themselves which ads might have merited the comments. The ad hominem response seemed to me rather out-of-line,

Oct 5, 2022 - 10:39:07 PM
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Players Union Member

TN Time

USA

405 posts since 12/6/2021

I don't like it when a seller accepts PayPal but wants the buyer to send the payment for "friends or family." That is just plain wrong!
Robert

Oct 6, 2022 - 3:55:11 AM

Greg Denton

Canada

90 posts since 10/5/2014

I have a complaint against superfluous use of commas in complaints about poorly worded ads. I'm not saying which one.

Oct 6, 2022 - 4:54:50 AM
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12408 posts since 10/27/2006

quote:
Originally posted by TN Time

I don't like it when a seller accepts PayPal but wants the buyer to send the payment for "friends or family." That is just plain wrong!
Robert


It's not just plain wrong. This violates the PayPal User Agreement and leaves the buyer with no recourse in case something goes wrong.

The BHO is also at fault when it allows sellers to post crap like PayPal accepted if buyer adds 3% or similar nonsense. Not only does this violate the seller's EULA with PayPal but it violates consumer laws in most states including California.

Credit card and PayPal fees are part of the cost of doing business and the second you post an ad, you are conducting a business transaction. You are allowed to offer a discount for cash or check (as I do) but not allowed to add a premium for financial services. Because of BHO's potential liability in this matter, I'm surprised this practice is still allowed. In any case, I see that and I will not buy from that seller.

Oct 6, 2022 - 5:00:17 AM

595 posts since 4/28/2012

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rogers

 The ad hominem response seemed to me rather out-of-line,


 

This is precisely why fewer .....and fewer.... and fewer people are posting here!

Rather than using logic and taking issue with someones opinion, or position or philosophy of banjo playing...

The personal attack on an individual has become all too common here.

Rio Stat, you are not wrong. There have been some wacky things going on in the classifieds lately!

Oct 6, 2022 - 5:02:51 AM

595 posts since 4/28/2012

quote:
Originally posted by TN Time

I don't like it when a seller accepts PayPal but wants the buyer to send the payment for "friends or family." That is just plain wrong!
Robert


Just curious...

What is your opinion when the buyer offers to do Paypal friends and family to save on the transaction fees?

Oct 6, 2022 - 6:46:09 AM
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DWFII

USA

512 posts since 1/9/2022

What do you call it when the bank charges a fee for making out a cashiers/certified check?

IMO, PayPal is a convenience for the buyer--the buyer gets his purchase 10-14 days sooner than if he/she had paid by a personal check. The 'vendor' should not be automatically financially liable for the convenience extended to the buyer. Similar proposition regarding shipping costs.

As long as the transaction is entered into voluntarily and with full understanding....

Oct 6, 2022 - 6:58:58 AM

7219 posts since 9/21/2007

quote:
Originally posted by DWFII

What do you call it when the bank charges a fee for making out a cashiers/certified check?

IMO, PayPal is a convenience for the buyer--the buyer gets his purchase 10-14 days sooner than if he/she had paid by a personal check. The 'vendor' should not be automatically financially liable for the convenience extended to the buyer. Similar proposition regarding shipping costs.

As long as the transaction is entered into voluntarily and with full understanding....


PayPal policy (as well as every payment processing service) does think the vendor is responsible. By having a PP account you agree to these terms (both as a buyer as well as a seller) when you click that "agree" box.   That is pretty much the end of the story.

Of course, that does not mean you can't have a personal opinion.  And you can enforce your personal opinion by not using any payment processing services and only paying or accepting cash. 

If you currently have a PayPal account, you have already agreed to the fee structure, which means you have a contract with PayPal that includes the way they do business.

You might consider closing your account.

Oct 6, 2022 - 7:06 AM

7219 posts since 9/21/2007

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Douglas
quote:
Originally posted by TN Time

I don't like it when a seller accepts PayPal but wants the buyer to send the payment for "friends or family." That is just plain wrong!
Robert


Just curious...

What is your opinion when the buyer offers to do Paypal friends and family to save on the transaction fees?

 


I can only speak for myself, but I do supplement a portion of my income using PayPal for the products I make and sell for banjo.

It depends on who it is.  If the person really is a friend, one that I know on any personal level or is part of my extended circle of friends, then it is no problem (but I still report the sale on my taxes).  This is a pretty rare occurrence and has not happened to me this year.

The big wakeup is going to come early next year when people start getting 1099-K forms in the mail and will be forced to report sales of $600 or more combined to the IRS.  I am not sure most people know that this is going to happen. 

Oct 6, 2022 - 7:19:41 AM

DWFII

USA

512 posts since 1/9/2022

If the vendor insists that PayPal be the only form of payments accepted, then the use of PayPal is for the vendor's convenience and the fees accrue to the vendor. The vendor is forcing one form of transaction for his convenience alone.

But if other forms of payment are acceptable to the vendor, then which form of payment is chosen is up to the buyer... for his convenience, only.

A vendor does not have to use PayPal or accept credit cards. Neither are legal tender.

Oct 6, 2022 - 7:42:22 AM
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7219 posts since 9/21/2007

quote:
Originally posted by DWFII

If the vendor insists that PayPal be the only form of payments accepted, then the use of PayPal is for the vendor's convenience and the fees accrue to the vendor. The vendor is forcing one form of transaction for his convenience alone.

But if other forms of payment are acceptable to the vendor, then which form of payment is chosen is up to the buyer... for his convenience, only.

A vendor does not have to use PayPal or accept credit cards. Neither are legal tender.


I think you are missing the point.

PayPal has a terms of service agreement.  In that there are rules as to who is responsible for the fees (the vendor).  There are also rules against demanding buyers pay that fee.

Those terms of service are a contract.  To use PayPal as a buyer or a seller one must agree to these terms.  That is the end of the story.

Use the service, or don't.  But the policy is clear.  If you are selling, and offer PayPal as a payment option, when you demand "add 3%" you are breaking the contract agreement that you made to use the service. 

Opinions on right or wrong do not matter.  The only way you can change that policy is to not ever use the service. If enough people stop using that service then they will change the policy.

If a seller only offers PayPal, then just don't buy from them.

Edited by - Joel Hooks on 10/06/2022 07:43:21

Oct 6, 2022 - 10:35:55 AM
Players Union Member

TN Time

USA

405 posts since 12/6/2021

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Douglas
quote:
Originally posted by TN Time

I don't like it when a seller accepts PayPal but wants the buyer to send the payment for "friends or family." That is just plain wrong!
Robert


Just curious...

What is your opinion when the buyer offers to do Paypal friends and family to save on the transaction fees?

 


 

The buyer should not do it either.

Robert

Oct 6, 2022 - 11:26:08 AM

2887 posts since 4/16/2003

I check the banjo classifieds each morning. I'm not going to buy anything, just checking.

This morning, the first thing that jumped out at me was a banjo case with a particular maker's name on it (who has just exited the banjo-building business) -- nothing more than a standard case with that name... $525 PLUS shipping.

Same case that is worth about $225 new anywhere else.
And this one isn't even new.

"Geesh", thought to myself, and then I moved on...

Oct 6, 2022 - 11:48:54 AM
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595 posts since 4/28/2012

quote:
Originally posted by J.Albert

 

This morning, the first thing that jumped out at me was a banjo case with a particular maker's name on it (who has just exited the banjo-building business) -- nothing more than a standard case with that name... $525 PLUS shipping.

Same case that is worth about $225 new anywhere else.
And this one isn't even new.

 


 

I thought the same thing... however.... look at it from that seller's viewpoint:

1. Seller knows you can't just call Mr. Stelling and get one.

2, Seller thinks they rarely (if  ever) come up for sale.

3. Seller thinks maybe someone wants one so bad they will "bite the bullet" and pay the price!

4. Seller thinks if it doesn't sell I can always go back and reduce the price. And the seller knows there

    is always a buyer for Stelling products!

If you look at it from that perspective, it doesn't seem so far-fetched at all.

Finally, look at the history of classifieds from this seller. He knows exactly what he is doing!

Edited by - Mark Douglas on 10/06/2022 11:52:34

Oct 6, 2022 - 12:09:39 PM
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Bill Rogers (Moderator)

USA

26468 posts since 6/25/2005

It’s an aspect of the collectible market. Buyers may participate or not. I recently bought my first potentially collectible banjo. I could have bought one that performed the same for about one-third the price. I made an informed choice because I wanted that particular banjo. It was not an economic decision.

Oct 6, 2022 - 12:11:20 PM

12408 posts since 10/27/2006

> If you are selling, and offer PayPal as a payment option, when you demand "add 3%" you are breaking the contract agreement that you made to use the service. <

and Consumer Protection laws in most states. Another reason why "Opinions on right or wrong do not matter".

You are still allowed to offer a discount for cash, check or money order. I take personal checks and wire transfers and US Post Office money orders that I cash at the post office. Nothing ships until payment is cleared. I don't like certified checks as they take much longer to clear.

BTW, PayPal's 2.9% is called the Discount Rate. Sellers should contact their banks and see what that rate is for VISA and MasterCard. You have to be pretty big to do better. The best rate I could ever get from American Express was 5.25% so, when PayPal added AMEX, I was a very happy camper and canceled my Merchant Account with them.

Oct 7, 2022 - 10:49:44 PM
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Players Union Member

rvrose

USA

902 posts since 6/29/2007

I have not sold anything on bho. But I do use PayPal to buy stuff. I have to confess that I have not read the papal 60 page user agreement. I'm just a banjo player! 

Edited by - rvrose on 10/07/2022 22:50:19

Oct 8, 2022 - 6:02:45 AM
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Players Union Member

Helix

USA

16060 posts since 8/30/2006

Fighter escort, everything ok here?


 

Oct 8, 2022 - 7:45:56 AM

heavy5

USA

2477 posts since 11/3/2016

If u don't care for or want to deal with an add , then don't !

There are always going to be idiot adds --- just ignore them !

Oct 13, 2022 - 6:57:46 PM

5536 posts since 5/9/2007

The OP is right!
I found a real stupid ad.

laugh

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