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Oct 2, 2022 - 1:21:02 PM
1328 posts since 11/9/2012

'1st attempt (You Tube) at playing the melody to the backing track of Creedence Clearwater Revival's: Have You Ever Seen The Rain. 'Nothing fancy, no up the neck action. MP3 (BHO)

Edited by - Toothless in Kentucky on 10/02/2022 13:44:19

Oct 2, 2022 - 2:58:57 PM
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2158 posts since 11/17/2018

As you know, your timing is a little off.

I would slow down the CCR song and practice that.

As far as melody/rolls, one thing you can do when learning new songs is use just one or two fingers to slowly pick out the melody, and then add the rolls later.

As before, I think it's easier to play along with instrumentals only than with vocals.

Your call.

Edited by - OldNavyGuy on 10/02/2022 15:00:19

Oct 3, 2022 - 9:17:46 AM
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237 posts since 12/16/2012

Terry,

I am so enjoying hearing your progress. Keep it up, your doing fine :)

Oct 3, 2022 - 4:14:08 PM

1328 posts since 11/9/2012

quote:
Originally posted by OldNavyGuy

As you know, your timing is a little off.

I would slow down the CCR song and practice that.

As far as melody/rolls, one thing you can do when learning new songs is use just one or two fingers to slowly pick out the melody, and then add the rolls later.

As before, I think it's easier to play along with instrumentals only than with vocals.

Your call.


This is the best I can do currently. I'm proud of this one. The timing is the best I can do. I do not hear a timing issue at all, the notes are played where I wanted them at. (Maybe with more practice I might hear as you). And I do not wish to practice to a backing track of this with no vocals. Most songs have words.

Thanks for your feedback. 

Oct 3, 2022 - 4:15:34 PM

1328 posts since 11/9/2012

quote:
Originally posted by Fretting Fingers

Terry,

I am so enjoying hearing your progress. Keep it up, your doing fine :)


Thanks for listening Dave! 

Oct 4, 2022 - 12:12:57 AM
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2158 posts since 11/17/2018

quote:
Originally posted by Toothless in Kentucky

This is the best I can do currently. I'm proud of this one. The timing is the best I can do. I do not hear a timing issue at all, the notes are played where I wanted them at. (Maybe with more practice I might hear as you). And I do not wish to practice to a backing track of this with no vocals. Most songs have words.

Thanks for your feedback. 


Sorry, I thought you were looking for feedback to help improve your playing and learning songs.

My mistake.

Oct 4, 2022 - 7:29:29 AM

ChunoTheDog

Canada

1869 posts since 8/9/2019

quote:
Originally posted by Toothless in Kentucky
quote:
Originally posted by OldNavyGuy

As you know, your timing is a little off.

I would slow down the CCR song and practice that.

As far as melody/rolls, one thing you can do when learning new songs is use just one or two fingers to slowly pick out the melody, and then add the rolls later.

As before, I think it's easier to play along with instrumentals only than with vocals.

Your call.


This is the best I can do currently. I'm proud of this one. The timing is the best I can do. I do not hear a timing issue at all, the notes are played where I wanted them at. (Maybe with more practice I might hear as you). And I do not wish to practice to a backing track of this with no vocals. Most songs have words.

Thanks for your feedback. 


Let's be honest with ourselves at least. 

Oct 4, 2022 - 7:54:46 AM
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phb

Germany

3576 posts since 11/8/2010

Let's not make this personal, it is well possible that Terry doesn't hear the timing issues (as he indicated himself in the sentence he wrote in parenthesis). One has to learn to hear as much as learn to play.

I hear timing issues especially during the first few measures of banjo playing, it gets better after that with some rough spots. I don't think that is a problem in itself. It is where you are at and all that matters is that you get better fine-control of your picking fingers. I think good timing comes from being able to a) hear the background music with fine detail despite a good deal of one's concentration capabilities being diverted to playing the instrument, and b) having enough motor control to make the finger act at exactly the point in time the brain sends the trigger signal (taking into account the time it takes to move the finger to hit and release the string).

The recipe for that is practice. Keep doing what you are doing.

Oct 4, 2022 - 11:59:11 AM

1328 posts since 11/9/2012

quote:
Originally posted by ChunoTheDog
quote:
Originally posted by Toothless in Kentucky
quote:
Originally posted by OldNavyGuy

As you know, your timing is a little off.

I would slow down the CCR song and practice that.

As far as melody/rolls, one thing you can do when learning new songs is use just one or two fingers to slowly pick out the melody, and then add the rolls later.

As before, I think it's easier to play along with instrumentals only than with vocals.

Your call.


This is the best I can do currently. I'm proud of this one. The timing is the best I can do. I do not hear a timing issue at all, the notes are played where I wanted them at. (Maybe with more practice I might hear as you). And I do not wish to practice to a backing track of this with no vocals. Most songs have words.

Thanks for your feedback. 


Let's be honest with ourselves at least. 


Im nothing but serious. I thought this was good. I am being honest.

Edited by - Toothless in Kentucky on 10/04/2022 12:06:51

Oct 4, 2022 - 12:06:09 PM

1328 posts since 11/9/2012

quote:
Originally posted by phb

Let's not make this personal, it is well possible that Terry doesn't hear the timing issues (as he indicated himself in the sentence he wrote in parenthesis). One has to learn to hear as much as learn to play.

I hear timing issues especially during the first few measures of banjo playing, it gets better after that with some rough spots. I don't think that is a problem in itself. It is where you are at and all that matters is that you get better fine-control of your picking fingers. I think good timing comes from being able to a) hear the background music with fine detail despite a good deal of one's concentration capabilities being diverted to playing the instrument, and b) having enough motor control to make the finger act at exactly the point in time the brain sends the trigger signal (taking into account the time it takes to move the finger to hit and release the string).

The recipe for that is practice. Keep doing what you are doing.


Thanks for your understanding. I am serious and I will keep practicing. But for the life of me, I thought my timing was spot on. I am proud of this recording. I would be the first to admit if I had doubts on a post. Thanks for pointing out the first measure, as I still have no clue.

Oct 4, 2022 - 12:09:42 PM

1328 posts since 11/9/2012

quote:
Originally posted by OldNavyGuy
quote:
Originally posted by Toothless in Kentucky

This is the best I can do currently. I'm proud of this one. The timing is the best I can do. I do not hear a timing issue at all, the notes are played where I wanted them at. (Maybe with more practice I might hear as you). And I do not wish to practice to a backing track of this with no vocals. Most songs have words.

Thanks for your feedback. 


Sorry, I thought you were looking for feedback to help improve your playing and learning songs.

My mistake.

 


I just don't hear a problem. Not this time. I am proud of this recording. 

Oct 4, 2022 - 12:39:32 PM
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ChunoTheDog

Canada

1869 posts since 8/9/2019

If you had a metronome keeping the beat as you played you would realize your timing is not constant.

We are simply trying to help you out.
Sometimes we are so focused on one thing that we miss the forest for the trees.

Being honest with yourself is the starting point in getting better since it will allow you to zero-in on areas that need work. Ego and getting better at anything don't go well together. We are all lifelong students anyway.

IMO (and this has been brought up before) I think you're picking songs that are slightly too fast for you at this juncture. This can help you pick up speed but it may come at a cost such as bad habits like uneven timing etc. if you don't hammer out the basics of timing and rolls first.

I'd practice songs at like 60%-75% speed and work up from there.

Keep at it. Keep it fun.

Oct 4, 2022 - 1:08:10 PM
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59683 posts since 12/14/2005

 

"Oy vey, have I EVER seen some rain!!! Thanks for asking."

--Noah D. Gilgamesh-

=======================

Anyway, most Creedence songs are bouncy, and the banjo is bouncy, so, keep on having fun with it, and keep sharing the joy.

Oct 4, 2022 - 3:18:49 PM
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1328 posts since 11/9/2012

quote:
Originally posted by ChunoTheDog

If you had a metronome keeping the beat as you played you would realize your timing is not constant.

We are simply trying to help you out.
Sometimes we are so focused on one thing that we miss the forest for the trees.

Being honest with yourself is the starting point in getting better since it will allow you to zero-in on areas that need work. Ego and getting better at anything don't go well together. We are all lifelong students anyway.

IMO (and this has been brought up before) I think you're picking songs that are slightly too fast for you at this juncture. This can help you pick up speed but it may come at a cost such as bad habits like uneven timing etc. if you don't hammer out the basics of timing and rolls first.

I'd practice songs at like 60%-75% speed and work up from there.

Keep at it. Keep it fun.


Oh I really do appreciate the help, I really do. No ego here, I'm too old for that. It just came to a shock to me this time as I must of played this recording back in my ear at least 50 times. So, in my own defense, how would anyone else respond if they honestly and truly thought such an attempt was really in time? Normally I can hear what you guys are talking about, and normally I can hear what people are saying and I know I need to improve. If I could hear the problem I would delete the upload. I really thought this recording would prove that I can keep good time, that is what bothers me the most, ' this time I just don't hear the problem.

I do have a confession, however. I doubt it's the reason why, but I do have a few disabilities, such as I'm totally deaf in my right ear ('all I can make out is distortion and vibrations). In other words my head is wired for MONO as all I can hear from is from my left side. It's my understanding that electronic devices use the left channel as the mono channel, so when I'm making such recordings I tend to overlook the right channel altogether, because I simply can't hear it. I just check the sound level of the right side and leave it at that. I didn't want to bring this up on BHO, but on second thought I guess I should explain that.

At this point all I can do is practice more. I'm too old to give up, I have too much of my life dedicated to playing a banjo. I never understood how a metronome is supposed to be any better at teaching timing than a bass and drums already in a backing track....But, I will invest in a metronome, or maybe some other electronic gadget that works the same way. I will seek out methods of improving timing, as it's obvious I am missing the boat on something. So this song post was well worth it to me for what I have learned, it was just a bit of a shock this time.

I do not wish to seem ungrateful for all the advise folks. I will be back here soon, as it's obvious to me I need your feedback in order to improve on practicing. After all, when one can't hear the problem it's not easy to correct it. So I will need more feedback on future song posts. I greatly appreciate the help, it just came as a shock to me this time as I honestly thought my timing was improving.

Please don't hold back in the future. The best time to be told one is struggling is when one is unaware they are (imho). Believe me, I have no reason to lie about something I take so seriously.

Terry

Edited by - Toothless in Kentucky on 10/04/2022 15:34:12

Oct 4, 2022 - 4:20:06 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

67043 posts since 10/5/2013

You’re close, Terry,,, keep at it. You can find a free metronome online somewhere, I think. Just the bare click sound can get you picking spot on.

Oct 4, 2022 - 5:32:29 PM
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4241 posts since 9/12/2016

Most of the time I see no problems--but you are getting tangled in the same place or 2 --need to rework it there a bit (--your correct timing and recurring pattern is a laid back approach and not aggressive and jumping into the beat -- no big deal to me
The trouble here is my answer and everyone else's are mostly generalizations --I never found these of much help--usually just painful--I think i will run down one of your tangles and give you the location--I find them in my own work mucho
metronome yes I guess--my keyboards and drum machine have all kinds of rhythm tracks that I use when hashing out new stuff--one can get to cheating on their own timekeeping-

I am actually working on a couple of CCR songs--fogerty liked to do signature rhythms on songs

Ok around .44 I lose the flow a bit--big deal --can't go wrong with CCR

Edited by - Tractor1 on 10/04/2022 17:39:05

Oct 4, 2022 - 5:43:03 PM
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4241 posts since 9/12/2016

Like chuck said a bare LOUD click on the beat does wonders--another thing for me, is it is harder to play with precise playing at a slow tempo-because i have to pull harder

Oct 4, 2022 - 6:56:15 PM
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ChunoTheDog

Canada

1869 posts since 8/9/2019

Terry, you're well on your way.... Please don't ever stop playing the banjo! (I'm serious)

Your timing has already improved so much in your past videos...imagine where you'll be in 3 months? a year? 2 years?? Fun to think about.

Playing back up and transitioning through chord changes like that is no easy task, especially on the banjo and at full speed. But nobody ever got better by keeping it easy so you have the right mindset imo.

I'm no teacher nor an expert in anything but I think you got this.

Random side note about self-learning: I've notice banjo players tend to be somewhat stubborn folks. I think harnessing that into never letting the banjo music "kick your butt" and using persistence and your ears to guide you to it is a powerful thing long term for learning. I always remind myself it's not a race and I'm not trying to be nominated for a Grammy. lol

As for a metronome, yeah.. I wouldn't pay for a standalone true 'metronome' unit or even an app since there's a few computer and cellphone/tablet metronome apps that are free. I also prefer the classic tick or knock sound, pretty loud, since I can actually hear the thing over the ruckus I'm making.

By the way I like your song selections in your videos...some big tunes.

Edited by - ChunoTheDog on 10/04/2022 19:00:14

Oct 4, 2022 - 7:54:32 PM
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1328 posts since 11/9/2012

You guys rock, I appreciate all of you. I just bought a metronome app called TonalEnergy, it looks pretty cool for $3.99, I don't mind paying that for no ads. So thanks for the help, as I'm starting to think now that I should of already had one of these apps on my phone. I just never knew it was something I needed to do until today. Do players practice any set more than others? Like is 1/4 time a good place to start practicing? laugh

'Sorry for being a smart-ass, as at first I just thought I was being attacked. It took time for me to realize that wasn't the case.

Terry

Oct 7, 2022 - 4:45:02 PM
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1328 posts since 11/9/2012

Update: Good news, after a lot of experimenting I think I may have a working metronome system now using an earbud feed from the metronome app. I have to use a small audio amp on level 10 and use a very specific sound for the "click"- This way I can actually hear the "click" in my "bad ear" (it's just enough volume this way) and can use my good ear for the backing track and the microphone. I honestly never realized that any banjo players did this sort of thing outside of practicing. A lot of the backing tracks on You Tube don't even list tempo nor time sigs, so I google for that information prior to practicing. Hence I now know this song is 116bpm at 4/4. (This information was not listed on the backing track at all) So for the first time ever I can now hear the "click" in my bad ear and the rest of the music in my good ear. My only problem now is starting the metronome at the right time. - lol 1.2.3.4 1.2.3.4

Thanks again for the help folks.
Terry

Oct 7, 2022 - 5:16:10 PM
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Joeblo

Australia

52 posts since 3/1/2021

there’s some nice licks in the chorus definitely worth working on. I’d like to learn it. Banjos got a nice tone

Edited by - Joeblo on 10/07/2022 17:17:33

Oct 7, 2022 - 5:29:15 PM
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ChunoTheDog

Canada

1869 posts since 8/9/2019

quote:
Originally posted by Toothless in Kentucky

Update: Good news, after a lot of experimenting I think I may have a working metronome system now using an earbud feed from the metronome app. I have to use a small audio amp on level 10 and use a very specific sound for the "click"- This way I can actually hear the "click" in my "bad ear" (it's just enough volume this way) and can use my good ear for the backing track and the microphone. I honestly never realized that any banjo players did this sort of thing outside of practicing. A lot of the backing tracks on You Tube don't even list tempo nor time sigs, so I google for that information prior to practicing. Hence I now know this song is 116bpm at 4/4. (This information was not listed on the backing track at all) So for the first time ever I can now hear the "click" in my bad ear and the rest of the music in my good ear. My only problem now is starting the metronome at the right time. - lol 1.2.3.4 1.2.3.4

Thanks again for the help folks.
Terry


That's awesome!!

Isn't it crazy how just wrapping your head around a tune's time signature and getting your brain, your fingers and your ears all in sync with that time just opens the song up to some good fun noodling?!

Best part is that all of this will only get easier from here on out as you get more and more used to it.

Oct 7, 2022 - 11:52:35 PM
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715 posts since 4/1/2009

quote:
Originally posted by ChunoTheDog


Random side note about self-learning: I've notice banjo players tend to be somewhat stubborn folks. I think harnessing that into never letting the banjo music "kick your butt" and using persistence and your ears to guide you to it is a powerful thing long term for learning. I always remind myself it's not a race and I'm not trying to be nominated for a Grammy. lol
 


Hahaha! I hear you Antoine! I've found that to be true as well! Especially that first part...!!! Ha!

I heard a little timing issue... but also a great effort on some great playing being tossed in as well! It's all part of the journey! Taking three fingers and putting five strings in time with CCR...? Ain't no easy shucks to be pulled there... especially from someone still getting things down. I also agree... imagine where this early effort will lead to later on! I say keep trucking buddy! And keep listening to music and learning!

Edited by - Pick1949 on 10/07/2022 23:58:43

Oct 8, 2022 - 5:06:51 AM
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4241 posts since 9/12/2016

i remember my first metronome =an electric one in the seventies--I remember fastening a pick up on it and running it thru the amp

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