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Sep 25, 2022 - 9:44:52 AM
6661 posts since 10/13/2007

I am wondering if any of you have experience with the Hal Leonard book: The Classic Douglas Dillard Songbook of 5 String Tablatures?
I am starting to work out some songs and I am wondering if the book is accurate. First on Old Home Place it seems like they have to many notes in there on the intro 1st measure. As I listen to it, it seems like he and JD are using the same notes.
2nd on Dooley in measure 11 C chord, it shows him going 1st string 5th fret with middle finger, then 2nd string 1st fret with index. Is he really holding a 5 fret stretch or is he playing all that c measure out of a 5th string bar chord?
Thanks,
ken

Sep 25, 2022 - 10:15:47 AM
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8236 posts since 8/30/2004

Don't own the book....sorry...Jack

Sep 25, 2022 - 12:59:53 PM
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273 posts since 7/22/2012

The first thought I have is to contact Bill Knopf. He helped Doug with what I think is the first edition of that book ("The Bluegrass Banjo Style of Douglas Flint Dillard"). If anyone knows what Doug actually did technically, when playing those, I bet it could be him.

Edited by - Banjfoot on 09/25/2022 13:00:55

Sep 25, 2022 - 1:42:28 PM

O.D.

USA

3724 posts since 10/29/2003

Although I don't do the intro for OHP as in the book ,the book version works,just need to get the speed and timing.
I imagine it's Doug's way,his book.
Dooley is accurate as far as I can tell. I always play as in the book.
I don't do a stretch ,I reach with my pinky to grab the 5th fret note and get back up to the C position without breaking the roll or rhythm
Again, speed and timing.
I hope that I made that understandable.
Good luck
E

Sep 25, 2022 - 2:27:29 PM

8236 posts since 8/30/2004

Yes,
With regards to Dooley, I was just about to post pretty much the same response as OD. Ken, just grab that 5th fret and rush back to the C chord. I tabbed out that song years ago and it is how I watched Doug play it...Jack   p.s. Hans Holzherr also has that tabbed out and its accurate. Hans has added a few parts of his own as I remember....

Edited by - Jack Baker on 09/25/2022 14:31:13

Sep 25, 2022 - 2:29:10 PM

3878 posts since 7/12/2006

There was some controversey over the doug dillard tab books. Bill Knopf has quite a story to tell about the whole affair

Sep 25, 2022 - 10:28:56 PM
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273 posts since 7/22/2012

Informative and interesting answers above... Thought of this:

youtu.be/niMcyxo7GvM

I remember watching this, great video. Has some good shots. Doug's still got it!

Sep 28, 2022 - 10:19:41 PM
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13701 posts since 6/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom

... I am wondering if the book is accurate. First on Old Home Place it seems like they have to many notes in there on the intro 1st measure. As I listen to it, it seems like he and JD are using the same notes.


I'm fairly certain the tabs are accurate to how Doug originally recorded the pieces.

However,  for the intro measure to Old Home Place in 2/4, I'd have tabbed the final note as an eighth. I also would have written the opening grace note as a straight 16th.  (Not sure about the meaning of a 16th with a line through it.) Not saying the tab is not accurate. But maybe it's too accurate to the point of being difficult to decipher.

But since you can't change the way it's written, just count and play it this way:

It's in 2/4, so the count is 1 E & a    2 E & a.   Play nothing on the count of "1." Play the first grace note (open 3rd) on the first "E." Start the 4th string pull-off on "&." Play the open 3rd string on "a," finishing the pull-off somewhere between the two. Start the 4th string hammer on "2." Play the following open 1st on "E," finishing the hammer somewhere in there. Play the final open 3rd on "&" and treat it as an eighth note, holding it through the final "a" with no other note played in the intro.  If your middle wants to pick the open 1st to get an extra note in there, no harm.  

You can also count it as if it's 4/4:  1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &.   In this case, the first note is played on the first "&" and the final open 3rd string is played on the count of 4 with no note following until the first note of the actual first measure.

I apologize if this sounds at all like I'm talking down to you.  I'm not. For some technical reason, I am no longer able to type correctly formatted text tab in a Forum post, so the only way for me to convey the timing of a passage is to express it all in words.

quote:
Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom

. . . on Dooley in measure 11 C chord, it shows him going 1st string 5th fret with middle finger, then 2nd string 1st fret with index. Is he really holding a 5 fret stretch or is he playing all that c measure out of a 5th string bar chord?


Yes, he's really doing a 5-fret stretch, but I believe you're misreading the tab. It's not telling you to stretch with middle and first fingers. The fingering indication under the staff is picking fingers, not fretting fingers. The actual stretch -- with your choice of ring or little finger on 5 -- is easy to do if you keep in mind that the original was in B or C, capoed up to 4 or 5, greatly reducing the distance between frets. 

As to what the picking fingering is really conveying, it's that Doug is executing the move some call the "Osborne roll," but which is also well-associated with Doug:  Strings 1-2-1-5 picked M-I-M-T.  Doesn't matter where the left hand is fretting or if strings are open. The picking hand just keeps doing M-I-M-T on 1-2-1-5 until the pattern stops.

Edited by - Old Hickory on 09/28/2022 22:23:51

Sep 29, 2022 - 5:09:54 AM
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6661 posts since 10/13/2007

quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickory
quote:
Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom

... I am wondering if the book is accurate. First on Old Home Place it seems like they have to many notes in there on the intro 1st measure. As I listen to it, it seems like he and JD are using the same notes.


I'm fairly certain the tabs are accurate to how Doug originally recorded the pieces.

However,  for the intro measure to Old Home Place in 2/4, I'd have tabbed the final note as an eighth. I also would have written the opening grace note as a straight 16th.  (Not sure about the meaning of a 16th with a line through it.) Not saying the tab is not accurate. But maybe it's too accurate to the point of being difficult to decipher.

But since you can't change the way it's written, just count and play it this way:

It's in 2/4, so the count is 1 E & a    2 E & a.   Play nothing on the count of "1." Play the first grace note (open 3rd) on the first "E." Start the 4th string pull-off on "&." Play the open 3rd string on "a," finishing the pull-off somewhere between the two. Start the 4th string hammer on "2." Play the following open 1st on "E," finishing the hammer somewhere in there. Play the final open 3rd on "&" and treat it as an eighth note, holding it through the final "a" with no other note played in the intro.  If your middle wants to pick the open 1st to get an extra note in there, no harm.  

You can also count it as if it's 4/4:  1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &.   In this case, the first note is played on the first "&" and the final open 3rd string is played on the count of 4 with no note following until the first note of the actual first measure.

I apologize if this sounds at all like I'm talking down to you.  I'm not. For some technical reason, I am no longer able to type correctly formatted text tab in a Forum post, so the only way for me to convey the timing of a passage is to express it all in words.

quote:
Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom

. . . on Dooley in measure 11 C chord, it shows him going 1st string 5th fret with middle finger, then 2nd string 1st fret with index. Is he really holding a 5 fret stretch or is he playing all that c measure out of a 5th string bar chord?


Yes, he's really doing a 5-fret stretch, but I believe you're misreading the tab. It's not telling you to stretch with middle and first fingers. The fingering indication under the staff is picking fingers, not fretting fingers. The actual stretch -- with your choice of ring or little finger on 5 -- is easy to do if you keep in mind that the original was in B or C, capoed up to 4 or 5, greatly reducing the distance between frets. 

As to what the picking fingering is really conveying, it's that Doug is executing the move some call the "Osborne roll," but which is also well-associated with Doug:  Strings 1-2-1-5 picked M-I-M-T.  Doesn't matter where the left hand is fretting or if strings are open. The picking hand just keeps doing M-I-M-T on 1-2-1-5 until the pattern stops.


Ken,

Talk down to me any time sir. Thanks for your time and thoughts and very thorough information sharing.  Being in B makes all the difference on the left hand and fret stretch and I had not thought of that.

It took you a bit of time to write that length. I appreciate all the information and your time and help.

little ken

Edited by - From Greylock to Bean Blossom on 09/29/2022 05:12:54

Sep 29, 2022 - 11:37:10 AM
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13701 posts since 6/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom
Talk down to me any time sir. Thanks for your time and thoughts and very thorough information sharing.  Being in B makes all the difference on the left hand and fret stretch and I had not thought of that.

It took you a bit of time to write that length. I appreciate all the information and your time and help.


Happy to help. Thanks for taking it all in the spirit it was intended. I'm temporarily taking a medication that's keeping me up at night, so writing this all out helped pass the time. Only a few more days, then I get my sleep back.

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