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True or false ...... or over generalization!

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Aug 7, 2022 - 8:49:16 AM
13369 posts since 1/15/2005

......."there is nothing more common than unsuccessful people with talent"!

(I am not assuming that "unsuccessful" necessarily means financially)

Aug 7, 2022 - 9:29:58 AM
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RB3

USA

1434 posts since 4/12/2004

Actually, John, there is something that is as common. It's successful people without talent. They substitute obsession, discipline, determination, and hard work for the talent.

Pete Rose is a good example. When a good friend of mine was in high school, he played on an American Legion baseball team with Rose. He said that at the time, Rose was, at best, a marginal performer that no one thought could ever become a professional. Unfortunately for Rose, compulsive obsession also facilitated his demise.

Aug 7, 2022 - 11:29:38 AM

13369 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by RB3

Actually, John, there is something that is as common. It's successful people without talent. They substitute obsession, discipline, determination, and hard work for the talent.

Pete Rose is a good example. When a good friend of mine was in high school, he played on an American Legion baseball team with Rose. He said that at the time, Rose was, at best, a marginal performer that no one thought could ever become a professional. Unfortunately for Rose, compulsive obsession also facilitated his demise.


I agree Wayne, but people assume that people who have been successful have talent.  I have known a lot of people who have been very successful because of their obsession or hard work, but have also known my share of those whose talents were wasted ....... one a professional golfer.  But it is also unfair to call someone unsuccessful just because the talent that they have is not the avenue they wanted to pursue ...... quite a few of those too.

Stve Martin agrees with you that obsession is a good substitute for talent.   agree too!

Aug 7, 2022 - 11:41:54 AM

800 posts since 10/9/2017

I've heard it said that you could go to any inner-city basketball court and find three guys as good as LeBron James. The difference between them and him is that they lack his drive and discipline. Actual numbers aside, I think the point is true enough.

Aug 7, 2022 - 11:48:19 AM

13369 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Remsleep

I've heard it said that you could go to any inner-city basketball court and find three guys as good as LeBron James. The difference between them and him is that they lack his drive and discipline. Actual numbers aside, I think the point is true enough.


That reminds me of a story about an old Wake Forest football coach that was standing over one of his big defensive linemen after he had been knocked down in practice yelling  ....."if I were as big as you you, I would be the heavyweight boxing champion of the world" .... to which the payer responded " then why aren't you the middleweight champion of the world".

Maybe I could be as good as LeBron James, but I have hard time being 6'8" ....... but then again, which was I not better than Spud Webb (5'6") or Mugsy Bogues (5'3") both of whom had professional careers in the NBA.

Aug 7, 2022 - 11:57:07 AM
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banjo bill-e

Tuvalu

12443 posts since 2/22/2007

I know two separate talented individuals who are never going to have their music heard much beyond their circle of friends and local clubs. Both write and sing really good original songs. They have star quality on stage. People always tell them "wow, you should be famous." Neither of them possess the work ethic to even hold a full time job, much less the relentless drive required for success in the music world. You can be born with a good voice and talent and good looks but nobody comes along and hands you a career, and certainly not stardom, just because you have all of the gifts and tools. I also know some lesser talents who have built a solid fan base and are at least supporting themselves with their music, because they are willing to drive the lonely miles and play the crummy gigs that are a part of paying your dues.

Aug 7, 2022 - 3:43:50 PM

slammer

USA

3751 posts since 12/30/2008

I knew a guy that was as good and reminded me of Roy Clark. Local fella who had a local band for years and a great following. He could play any instrument and sing and entertain like Roy. I offered to manage him and get try to get him to a bigger stage.
Alcohol was more important to him and he had no interest in going bigger. I wanted it for him more than he did!!! Damn shame, he was so freaking good and didn’t even know it.
Slammer!!!

Aug 7, 2022 - 4:05 PM
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STUD

USA

36252 posts since 3/5/2008

I bet he knew it Slammer but it was not his priority..

Aug 7, 2022 - 4:40:15 PM
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rinemb

USA

14849 posts since 5/24/2005

I have sailed the the many seas, and seen the seven wonders of the world…of business, specifically, my industry and my profession. I would say that most-or at least many of the the folks that made the big money (the ultimate measure of success, eh?) we’re the drivers, full on shameless, and never look back at failures, and the sellers. Btw, the terms I used are not necessarily negative evil terms, just business. I traveled on both paths at different and coinciding attributes and acumen’s. Makers and shakers vs scientists and dreamers. Then there are bamboozlers and crooked and the pressing the law folks who do well, very well, until busted or finally their ignorance topples them. I believe I have seen about it all with players in the oil biz. Brad

Aug 7, 2022 - 5:14:06 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

66152 posts since 10/5/2013
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Leo Kottke once said in an interview that it’s not so much talent as LOVE of music that spurs you on to become great.

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Aug 7, 2022 - 8:47:37 PM
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Tommy5

USA

4102 posts since 2/22/2009

I think American Idol showed that there  are thousands of people that can sing as well as the music idols of today, especially with helped by auto- tone. I wouldn’t even say that successfully people have more drive or ambition then the average masses , maybe more opportunities. Some people I play with in jams are just as talented and sound just as good as the stars of bluegrass music, they have other jobs and families to take care of so the life style of professional musician didn’t appeal to them , I suspect there are folks reading this post that fall into this category. Psychologist will say that people that consider themselves successful will attribute their success to hard work and brains, while less successful folks tend to point to outside forces like luck, society, etc to explain their circumstances. Also I am not convinced that “ talent’ actually exist, but that is for another post.

Edited by - Tommy5 on 08/07/2022 20:48:26

Aug 8, 2022 - 4:38:59 AM

STUD

USA

36252 posts since 3/5/2008

some folks need to be..
Or are cumphy being the center of attendtion...

It is a form of power...
Some use it well..while others..notsomuch...


I am happy being one of the ...
Little People....


Sometimes fame is put on someone...but not of thier desire for ..it.
But due to the good ..or ..bad way they handled a givin situation...

N the there is the News Meida...that will..
Spin anything ...for thier own reasons.....

Aug 8, 2022 - 4:52:43 AM
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lapsteel

Canada

818 posts since 8/13/2015

The Latin root of the word, “amateur” is “for the love of”.

Aug 8, 2022 - 5:38:08 AM

8116 posts since 9/5/2006

sometimes circumstances in your life dictate the level of commitment you are allowed to apply. you have to make a choice. and sometimes it is you passion or your family are the 2 choices you have. talent is ability cultivated until perfection ..

Edited by - 1935tb-11 on 08/08/2022 05:38:35

Aug 8, 2022 - 7:49:01 AM
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151 posts since 1/28/2017

Go to any bluegrass festival and a lot of the pickers are as good as what is on stage. Different goals being job types compared to a stage musician. Most that I know they are happy in their work and are successful. Could they on been on stage, a lot probably could have done that. Is it the drive or common sense. I think it's just a career choice. Sometimes it's just the peace of mind. Being a musician is a tough life on the road.

Aug 8, 2022 - 8:10:54 AM

Owen

Canada

11554 posts since 6/5/2011

... fwiw, I'll cast my vote for b-i-g over-generalization.

Aug 8, 2022 - 8:28:20 AM

76657 posts since 5/9/2007

People are successful at what they do when their phone rings and someone wants to pay good money for what they have.

Aug 8, 2022 - 8:48:02 AM
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11423 posts since 8/22/2006

quote:
Originally posted by slammer

I knew a guy that was as good and reminded me of Roy Clark. Local fella who had a local band for years and a great following. He could play any instrument and sing and entertain like Roy. I offered to manage him and get try to get him to a bigger stage.
Alcohol was more important to him and he had no interest in going bigger. I wanted it for him more than he did!!! Damn shame, he was so freaking good and didn’t even know it.
Slammer!!!


This story reminds me of a song I wrote and recored. Titled "He didn't make it to Nashville" same concept except it was about a karaoke  singer who was good but the taste of alcohol was more important in his life.

 

sometimes a person will choose family over fortune. My ex father in law was best friends with a famous bass player from our area infact that bass player was his best man. That bass player wanted the  f i l  to go with him to LA but  the f i l chose to stay home with the new bride and nine months later my ex was born. That bass player became part of the Wrecking Crew and Ricky Nelson's bass player. 

Edited by - 5B-Ranch on 08/08/2022 08:56:59

Aug 8, 2022 - 10:52:53 AM
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donc

Canada

7015 posts since 2/9/2010

Just about every person I get to know has some talent somewhere. Sometimes that talent is basically an ability to listen and be receptive to other people. Sometimes it's an ability to deal with a difficult person and bring about a resolution to a dispute. The mother of several children often has the ability to be strong, innovative, and supportive without biting someone in the leg. These kinds of talents are much more important in this world than being able to slam dunk a basketball from 30 feet away.

Aug 8, 2022 - 11:27:12 AM
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13369 posts since 1/15/2005

A lot of posts are zeroing in on musical talent which I think fits nicely, but as others have noted, it is more about out our abilities in general rather than zeroing in on one particular type of talent. Maybe a better word than talent might have been something like "gift" ..... i.e the gift of organization, or hospitality, or mathematics, writing, etc.

I agree with Don, that even the ability to listen, or give good council are certainly "talents' .... or gifts ..... and in my opinion important ones. Not so sure about the "gift of gab"smiley

Aug 8, 2022 - 12:05:02 PM
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1904 posts since 2/9/2007

I reckon it's true-- if it means anything at all. "talent" is such a nebulous and subjective concept that I find the word useless, unless you're talking about an archaic measurement of weight. ...and, come to think of it, does anyone actually know what a talent would translate to in kg or lb?

Aug 8, 2022 - 1:24:38 PM
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76657 posts since 5/9/2007

If people call and ask you to come over with your banjo and guitar that would indicate a presence of talent.

Aug 8, 2022 - 2:56:48 PM
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8116 posts since 9/5/2006

quote:
Originally posted by steve davis

If people call and ask you to come over with your banjo and guitar that would indicate a presence of talent.


or,,,,,,, because their first choice couldn't show up 

Aug 8, 2022 - 3:01:34 PM
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TN Time

USA

351 posts since 12/6/2021

My ex brother-in-law was a scratch golfer. He worked as a greens/grounds keeper at a local golf course. He was approached by a wealthy man who wanted to sponsor him on the pro gold tour. He turned the guy down and said there were just too many good players on the tour and he didn't want to compete against them.

He was also a phenomenal 3rd baseman at a local junior college. A pro baseball scout from the old Kansas City Athletics invited him to spring training to try out for the team. He turned this opportunity down also. He said that Sal Bando was their 3rd baseman so he would probably not get a chance to play.

His problem was that he wanted to start at the top and did not want to put in the work required to get there. He had talent but no ambition, drive or self discipline. He was happy to just drive a tractor by himself on the golf course all day. What a waste.
Robert

Aug 8, 2022 - 3:09:58 PM
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11423 posts since 8/22/2006

quote:
Originally posted by TN Time

My ex brother-in-law was a scratch golfer. He worked as a greens/grounds keeper at a local golf course. He was approached by a wealthy man who wanted to sponsor him on the pro gold tour. He turned the guy down and said there were just too many good players on the tour and he didn't want to compete against them.

He was also a phenomenal 3rd baseman at a local junior college. A pro baseball scout from the old Kansas City Athletics invited him to spring training to try out for the team. He turned this opportunity down also. He said that Sal Bando was their 3rd baseman so he would probably not get a chance to play.

His problem was that he wanted to start at the top and did not want to put in the work required to get there. He had talent but no ambition, drive or self discipline. He was happy to just drive a tractor by himself on the golf course all day. What a waste.
Robert


? The question should have been was he happy. Isn't that what's import in life? 

Aug 8, 2022 - 6:44:48 PM
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Buddur

USA

3342 posts since 10/23/2004

That "talent" statement was so general I knew there had to be more to it, and sure enough I found this...

Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On!' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” ? Calvin Coolidge
 

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