Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

909
Banjo Lovers Online


Page: 1  2   Last Page (2) 

Nov 29, 2021 - 8:53:50 AM
13 posts since 9/15/2021

Hi guys,

I’m sorry this is an extremely noobie question but when playing hammer one, pull offs, and slides that show simultaneous notes being played, am I literally playing the note at the same exact time or immediately after? The example I have below is just one instance of this type of tab.

Should one hit the open second string exactly when the slide up to third fret is occurs or right after?

Nov 29, 2021 - 9:07:55 AM

264 posts since 5/21/2020
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by tss79772

Hi guys,

I’m sorry this is an extremely noobie question but when playing hammer one, pull offs, and slides that show simultaneous notes being played, am I literally playing the note at the same exact time or immediately after? The example I have below is just one instance of this type of tab.

Should one hit the open second string exactly when the slide up to third fret is occurs or right after?


There is a pause, either a 16th 8th or quarter note pause after playing the first note. The TAB will indicate the duration. So play the note pause then hammer/slide/pull-off as directed. The objective is to hear two notes. Check out this video 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S5vuG73CtI

Edited by - FenderFred on 11/29/2021 09:08:35

Nov 29, 2021 - 9:20:19 AM

13 posts since 9/15/2021

Thanks for your reply. Sorry should have explained this better. I know how to play the actual hammer ons, pull offs, etc. Just wondering if notes that are tabbed to be played simultaneous actually are on banjo.

In the first measure of foggy mountain breakdown, should the open first string really be played exactly when the third fret is fretted or right after?

Nov 29, 2021 - 9:50:34 AM

264 posts since 5/21/2020
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by tss79772

Thanks for your reply. Sorry should have explained this better. I know how to play the actual hammer ons, pull offs, etc. Just wondering if notes that are tabbed to be played simultaneous actually are on banjo.

In the first measure of foggy mountain breakdown, should the open first string really be played exactly when the third fret is fretted or right after?


Maybe this will help, Getting the timing right is often down to listening to the licks being played over and over. If your reading TAB from a book or printed sheet your not going to get a sense of the timing. Better to use a TAB TEF file played in TEFView. That way you can slow it down and play along.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjqT6y5V9D0

Nov 29, 2021 - 11:14:42 AM
likes this

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

26689 posts since 8/3/2003

If you're doing a hammer on, pull off or choke, you have to strike the note before you can hammer, pull off or choke on the next note or there wouldn't be any need to do either. If the notes follow one another, that means they are 2 individual notes. As said above, it depends on the duration of the note how long you'd hold the original note.

I think of those secondary notes as "grace notes" or maybe afterthoughts? Whatever you want to call it, it's definitely 2 separate, distinct notes.

I presume there may be exceptions to that but at this time I can't think of any. Maybe someone else can.

Nov 29, 2021 - 11:19:57 AM

2663 posts since 5/2/2012

In the first part of the measure, you sound the open 2nd as you complete the slide. in this case, the 3rd fret, 3rd string note is ringing at the same time you strike the open 2nd. The reverse, obviously, with the pull off, when the 2nd fret, 3rd string is ringing, you pick the open 2nd, again at the same time, not before, not after.  Trickier than it looks, as timing is everything. At least that's how I interpret and play it.

Edited by - thisoldman on 11/29/2021 11:23:47

Nov 29, 2021 - 1:37:50 PM
Players Union Member

RioStat

USA

5674 posts since 10/12/2009
Online Now

Here's the tab the OP is asking about.

Click for Large Version

Nov 29, 2021 - 2:06:53 PM

4495 posts since 12/6/2009

if the tab shows like scotts above tab then note is olayed at same time.in both cases the I is on second string at same time. anytime numbers line up it means at the same time.

Nov 29, 2021 - 2:10:02 PM
likes this

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

26689 posts since 8/3/2003

I knew someone would come up with a tab that showed two notes being played at the same time. In the above instance, you would slide to the 3rd fret and hit the open 2nd string at the same time and on the pull off, you'd pull off to the 2nd string and hit the open 2nd string a the same time.

Looks like Overhere and I were posting at the time. His came up first.

Nov 29, 2021 - 2:26:32 PM
like this

4007 posts since 3/28/2008

quote:
Originally posted by tss79772

Thanks for your reply. Sorry should have explained this better. I know how to play the actual hammer ons, pull offs, etc. Just wondering if notes that are tabbed to be played simultaneous actually are on banjo.

In the first measure of foggy mountain breakdown, should the open first string really be played exactly when the third fret is fretted or right after?


Really meticulous transcribers will try to indicate EXACTLY what's heard on the recording, and experienced players will have developed the control to do it either way at will, but basically the fast hammer on (coming before the open note) and the more leisurely one (simultaneous with the open note) are two different flavors of the same basic thing. They both get the same job done. Do it however you can/want--and let the person who transcribes YOUR playing worry about how to notate it. wink

Nov 29, 2021 - 3:07:37 PM

264 posts since 5/21/2020
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by RioStat

Here's the tab the OP is asking about.

Click for Large Version


So let me get this straight when the tss79772 said  and I qoute "In the first measure of foggy mountain breakdown, " he didn't mean the Foggy Mountain Breakdown lick he meant to say the 23 slide followed by the 32 pulloff lick well there is nothing more to say except Earl didn't kick off the tune with that lick he did a pinch on 1 & 5 and went straight into the FMB Lick listen for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Y3mnj-8lA 

Nov 29, 2021 - 3:15:02 PM

13 posts since 9/15/2021

It sounds like either way will work then. Thanks guys!

Nov 29, 2021 - 5:12:09 PM

5799 posts since 12/20/2005

I hate idiots like you

Nov 30, 2021 - 4:37:49 AM
likes this

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

26689 posts since 8/3/2003

FYI: The troll has been locked out, once again, and all nasty remarks are removed.

Nov 30, 2021 - 4:45:08 AM

264 posts since 5/21/2020
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by Leslie R

I hate idiots like you


We all can't be perfect like you Leslie R the world would be a sad place if we were. Folks come here to learn I hope you learned something today.

Nov 30, 2021 - 4:48:38 AM
like this

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

26689 posts since 8/3/2003

quote:
Originally posted by FenderFred
quote:
Originally posted by Leslie R

I hate idiots like you


We all can't be perfect like you Leslie R the world would be a sad place if we were. Folks come here to learn I hope you learned something today.


Fred,  she was talking about the troll who just got locked out (again) and his nasty posts which have been removed. 

Nov 30, 2021 - 6:46:09 AM
likes this

264 posts since 5/21/2020
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by Texasbanjo
quote:
Originally posted by FenderFred
quote:
Originally posted by Leslie R

I hate idiots like you


We all can't be perfect like you Leslie R the world would be a sad place if we were. Folks come here to learn I hope you learned something today.


Fred,  she was talking about the troll who just got locked out (again) and his nasty posts which have been removed. 


Thanks for the clarification Sherry. I didn't see the TROLLs post I thought Leslie R was having a go at the OP. My sincere apologues Leslie R 

Nov 30, 2021 - 7:06:28 AM
like this

5799 posts since 12/20/2005

We’re good. I’m fact, I think you are doing great at explaining this material.
I should not have responded to the troll post.
It was vulgar, creepy, and directed at a lady.
I grew up in an era in which that was absolutely and irrevocably unacceptable

Nov 30, 2021 - 8:07:18 AM

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

26689 posts since 8/3/2003

quote:
Originally posted by Leslie R

We’re good. I’m fact, I think you are doing great at explaining this material.
I should not have responded to the troll post.
It was vulgar, creepy, and directed at a lady.
I grew up in an era in which that was absolutely and irrevocably unacceptable


Leslie, I should have hidden your post after I hid the troll's post.  My apologies for not doing that.

And his posts are, in my opinion, absolutely and irrecvocably unacceptable, too.    I just consider the source.  A jerk is a jerk is a troll.

Edited by - Texasbanjo on 11/30/2021 08:08:15

Nov 30, 2021 - 4:34:51 PM
likes this

Andy B

USA

71 posts since 5/26/2007

For starters, play the two rolls in that measure of tab without the slide and the pull off. That’s the timing you usually want to hear when the slide and the pull off are added in. If you don’t play the hammer or pull off note simultaneously with the next note in the roll, you’ll need to shorten the duration of these notes (for example, make each a sixteenth note) so you don’t add any extra beats to that measure.

Dec 1, 2021 - 6:27:55 AM

13 posts since 9/15/2021

Thanks!

Edited by - tss79772 on 12/01/2021 06:28:14

Dec 1, 2021 - 8:13:52 AM
like this
Players Union Member

janolov

Sweden

41320 posts since 3/7/2006

quote:
Originally posted by tss79772

Thanks for your reply. Sorry should have explained this better. I know how to play the actual hammer ons, pull offs, etc. Just wondering if notes that are tabbed to be played simultaneous actually are on banjo.

In the first measure of foggy mountain breakdown, should the open first string really be played exactly when the third fret is fretted or right after?


This thread has been some confusing. Some trolls were here and some comments refers to the trolls and some comments refers to the initial question and some comments refers to other comments in this thread., And the example above with the 2-3 slide is not the what was asked for ("first measure of Foggy Mountain Breakdown"). 

The example below shows to ways to play the first measure in FMB (after the "pinch introduction").  In the first example the hammer on occurs exactly when the middle finger plays the first string. The second example the hammer on is between the first note (second fret second string with T or I) and the M on the open first string. I prefer the first way when the hammering is at the same time as the open first string is played. It is a D note that are played simultaneously in two different ways.

Regarding the other example shown above with the 2-3 slide on the first string I prefer to play it as a fast slide so the 3rd string 3rd fret is reached before I play the open second string, because then there is a fast A->A#->B sequence, but as the tab example ,in the above comment, shows the A# and the B is played simultaneously which gives a dissonance (which can sound good sometimes).  

On the other hand, if you are playing in more than 300 BPM, I think there are only a few persons here on BHO who can hear the difference. So don't put to much effort on the timing of those individual notes, it is more important that you keep the rhythm!


Edited by - janolov on 12/01/2021 08:17:30

Dec 1, 2021 - 9:04:25 AM
likes this

12579 posts since 6/2/2008
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by janolov

. . . if you are playing in more than 300 BPM, I think there are only a few persons ... who can hear the difference. So don't put to much effort on the timing of those individual notes, it is more important that you keep the rhythm!


This!

As to the 2-3 slide on 3rd, I agree with hitting 3rd string 3rd fret before the open 2nd. Earl Scruggs also bent the 3rd string a bit during the slide, so the top note was slurring that much more from B-flat into B. I got this tidbit from a Tony Trischka lesson at camp and on Artistworks.

Dec 2, 2021 - 8:30:24 AM
like this

RB3

USA

1166 posts since 4/12/2004

I think that this is an issue of style. How you learn when to execute the hammer-on, slide or the pull-off will end up being something that will be part of the determination of your own personal style of playing. You can execute a hammer-on, slide or the pull-off any time you want, as long as it's finished so that it's coincident with or before you pick the next string with your right hand.

The important consideration associated with this for a new learner is that they don't let these left hand embellishments interfere with learning to use their right hand correctly. Job one is making sure that the right hand picks the strings at the correct time.

Another thing that the new player needs to understand is that the tablature can't provide an adequate graphic model of what may actually be happening.  If the actual time value of one of these left hand embellishments is a 1/39 note instead of a 1/32 note, the tablature just can't handle it.    

Edited by - RB3 on 12/02/2021 08:49:24

Dec 3, 2021 - 10:08:05 AM
like this

12579 posts since 6/2/2008
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by RB3

I think that this is an issue of style. ...You can execute a hammer-on, slide or the pull-off any time you want, as long as it's finished so that it's coincident with or before you pick the next string with your right hand.    


Tremendous point.

It's not when you play the move, it's when you complete it.

And as said above, at high tempos no one can hear the difference anyway.

 

quote:
Originally posted by RB3

Another thing that the new player needs to understand is that the tablature can't provide an adequate graphic model of what may actually be happening.  If the actual time value of one of these left hand embellishments is a 1/39 note instead of a 1/32 note, the tablature just can't handle it.    


Another tremendous point.

This is why the best tablature is that which attempts to transcribe a specific recorded performance that you can listen to for reference.  Hearing what the tab writer is trying to convey is as valuable -- if not more so -- than simply seeing the tab.

Dec 6, 2021 - 2:42:10 AM

phb

Germany

3112 posts since 11/8/2010

My plan is to some day be able to play Foggy Mountain Breakdown quick enough to make the 1st string note coincide with the hammer-on... :)

Page: 1  2   Last Page (2) 

Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

0.171875