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Nov 29, 2021 - 7:56:19 AM
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janolov

Sweden

41315 posts since 3/7/2006

This is an old runestone from about a.D. 1000 in the castle of Kalmar in Sweden. Doesn't it give some associations to a banjo?


Edited by - janolov on 11/29/2021 08:08:41

Nov 29, 2021 - 8:09:02 AM
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Emiel

Austria

10030 posts since 1/22/2003

Haha, very nice. Yes, it does. Unintentionally though…

Nov 29, 2021 - 9:05:25 AM
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29 posts since 3/6/2006

Here's a photo from the ancient Egyptian Temple of Dendur (10 B.C.) now located at the MET in New York.


Nov 29, 2021 - 9:31:31 AM
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Omeboy

USA

3000 posts since 6/27/2013

Brother Jan has posted a beautiful photo of what is known by historians as the "Phoenician Plectrum," possibly the very first banjo ever produced. The Phoenicians became dominant in the mid 12th century BC. They started what is known as the Bronze (Tone-Ring) Age. With all that sand around, making tone rings was a cinch! They very quickly became renowned in the ancient world as shrewd traders, bold mariners and really hot banjo players. At some point, a sub-group broke away and became the "Scruggites," who added a fifth string to the Phoenician Plectrum....and the rest is history. wink

Nov 29, 2021 - 10:41:41 AM
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Fathand

Canada

11864 posts since 2/7/2008

Could be one of those long handled popcorn makers, the kind used over a fire or a bed warmer.

Nov 29, 2021 - 10:47 AM

530 posts since 5/29/2015

nice flange

Nov 29, 2021 - 11:26:02 AM
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beegee

USA

22559 posts since 7/6/2005

this verifies the legend of Elfred Scruggs,

Nov 29, 2021 - 12:04:01 PM
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cevant

USA

301 posts since 2/5/2020

Made during the reign of King Tutankroydon obviously.

Nov 29, 2021 - 1:33:08 PM

1662 posts since 1/28/2013

String instruments are thousands of years old. The banjo is a string instrument. It was probabaly one of the first instruments ever invented. It did not come from Africa with the Slaves.

Nov 30, 2021 - 1:43:20 PM
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8313 posts since 3/17/2005

Jan ... "It did not come from Africa with the slaves".
Arguably, regardless of previous history, it came to this land with the slaves, no?

Nov 30, 2021 - 2:10:20 PM
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261 posts since 5/21/2020

quote:
Originally posted by janolov

This is an old runestone from about a.D. 1000 in the castle of Kalmar in Sweden. Doesn't it give some associations to a banjo?


Looks like a Celtic Cross standing on it's head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsa_n8ysKZs

Dec 1, 2021 - 6:12:41 AM

7361 posts since 9/5/2006

is that crossed drumsticks or a set of tongs?

Dec 1, 2021 - 6:23:33 AM
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janolov

Sweden

41315 posts since 3/7/2006

Yes it has some similarities with a celtic cross, but crosses usually don't have text in it, only ornaments. And why is it upside down? And what does the sign in the center of the rune stone "cross" mean? Is it an old banjo bridge with a broken string? smiley

According to available information the rune text has been difficult to interpret because it contain some strange letters and words (early banjo tab?)

Dec 1, 2021 - 7:29:16 AM
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11 posts since 11/30/2021

quote:
Originally posted by chip arnold

Jan ... "It did not come from Africa with the slaves".
Arguably, regardless of previous history, it came to this land with the slaves, no?


The banjo as we know it in the united states certainly owes its existence to African culture. There's a very cool musical instrument museum in Phoenix that's definitely worth seeing. They have many instruments from all over the world that resemble the banjo. But each has its own history, name, and cultural significance.

Dec 1, 2021 - 8:35:16 AM
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janolov

Sweden

41315 posts since 3/7/2006

quote:
Originally posted by chip arnold

Jan ... "It did not come from Africa with the slaves".
Arguably, regardless of previous history, it came to this land with the slaves, no?


The vikings were in America in the early 1000's so who knows? 

Jan 3, 2022 - 8:01:55 PM

Paul R

Canada

15368 posts since 1/28/2010

quote:
Originally posted by janolov
quote:
Originally posted by chip arnold

Jan ... "It did not come from Africa with the slaves".
Arguably, regardless of previous history, it came to this land with the slaves, no?


The vikings were in America in the early 1000's so who knows? 


But they were long gone by the time white men established colonies, and the indigenous people were  not known for stringed instruments. Therefore the remaining link is to Africa.

Jan 3, 2022 - 8:18:23 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

61476 posts since 10/5/2013

There’s something about slaves being credited for American banjos that irks some people…. why?

Jan 3, 2022 - 8:34:17 PM
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58607 posts since 12/14/2005

quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97

There’s something about slaves being credited for American banjos that irks some people…. why?


WILD GUESS:

A perception that Banjos are NICE, and "People Who Don't Look Like Us" are NOT nice.

Call it tribalism. racism, xenophobia, but it exists in a lot of cultures around the world.

I can't tell a Serb from a Croat, but  slaughter happened.

I can't tell a Hutu from a Tutsi, but slaughter happened.

I can't tell a Turk  from an Armenian, but slaughter happened.

And so on and so forth

Jan 3, 2022 - 9:09:14 PM

chuckv97

Canada

61476 posts since 10/5/2013

At the risk of committing dread thrift,, in our old neighbourhood growing up we had Polacks, Wops, Degos, Krauts, Hebes, Limeys, Frogs, and the odd Dyke-Hopper. We all got along, with a bit of trash talk along the way.

Jan 4, 2022 - 6:01:12 AM
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738 posts since 10/9/2017

quote:
Originally posted by Omeboy

Brother Jan has posted a beautiful photo of what is known by historians as the "Phoenician Plectrum," possibly the very first banjo ever produced. The Phoenicians became dominant in the mid 12th century BC. They started what is known as the Bronze (Tone-Ring) Age. With all that sand around, making tone rings was a cinch! They very quickly became renowned in the ancient world as shrewd traders, bold mariners and really hot banjo players. At some point, a sub-group broke away and became the "Scruggites," who added a fifth string to the Phoenician Plectrum....and the rest is history. wink


Judges, 22:13 - "And the Lord said, "Verily thou shalt smite the Scruggites hip and thigh for they have forgotten the ways of Earl and do it not like he done, and they are an abomination unto My ear."

Jan 4, 2022 - 6:54:29 AM
Players Union Member

janolov

Sweden

41315 posts since 3/7/2006

Here is a painting from about 710 - 720 in Quseir Amra in Jordan. It seems to be a bear playing a banjo-like instrument. It seems to be 300-400 years older than the runestone. 

Jan 4, 2022 - 8:38:50 AM

Omeboy

USA

3000 posts since 6/27/2013

quote:
Originally posted by Remsleep
quote:
Originally posted by Omeboy

Brother Jan has posted a beautiful photo of what is known by historians as the "Phoenician Plectrum," possibly the very first banjo ever produced. The Phoenicians became dominant in the mid 12th century BC. They started what is known as the Bronze (Tone-Ring) Age. With all that sand around, making tone rings was a cinch! They very quickly became renowned in the ancient world as shrewd traders, bold mariners and really hot banjo players. At some point, a sub-group broke away and became the "Scruggites," who added a fifth string to the Phoenician Plectrum....and the rest is history. wink


Judges, 22:13 - "And the Lord said, "Verily thou shalt smite the Scruggites hip and thigh for they have forgotten the ways of Earl and do it not like he done, and they are an abomination unto My ear."


Your historical quote reminds me of that dark day that occurred in 44 B.C.  It was the "Ides of March" when the great leader of the Phoenician Plectrumists, Eddymus Peabodyious, suddenly found himself surrounded by Scruggites.  (He had been betrayed by the local fruit vendor, Frutee, who informed the Scruggites of Eddymus's daily routine.)  As Eddymus was buying an apple, they quickly encircled him and began plucking him to death one by one.  At the last second, Frutee (who didn't wear picks)  rushed forward and smashed Eddymus over the head with a very ripe banana.  In his last dying gasp, Eddymus Peabodyious uttered that immortal phrase: "Et tu, Frutee???"   cryingwink
Jan 4, 2022 - 9:21:39 AM

chuckv97

Canada

61476 posts since 10/5/2013

Tuttifruttti

Jan 4, 2022 - 9:39:14 AM
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738 posts since 10/9/2017

quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97

Tuttifruttti


The Arab chronicler Ibn-Bilkeeth noted that Frutee was born in Egypt in the village of Rutt, and was generally known as Tuti Frutee al-Rutti

Jan 4, 2022 - 6:04:11 PM

326 posts since 8/11/2007

quote:
Originally posted by TScottHilton
quote:
Originally posted by chip arnold

Jan ... "It did not come from Africa with the slaves".
Arguably, regardless of previous history, it came to this land with the slaves, no?


The banjo as we know it in the united states certainly owes its existence to African culture. There's a very cool musical instrument museum in Phoenix that's definitely worth seeing. They have many instruments from all over the world that resemble the banjo. But each has its own history, name, and cultural significance.


The banjo's flat fingerboard, tuning pegs, nut, and tail piece are distinctly European; therefore, it isn't quite accurate to say we "owe it's existence to African culture."

This Afrocentric assertion, though fashionable, ignores the massive amount of European culture evident in the early gourd banjo.

Jan 4, 2022 - 9:17:13 PM
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Paul R

Canada

15368 posts since 1/28/2010

The entire concept and style of playing vs. nut, tuning pegs, and tailpiece? Hardly a "massive amount of European culture". And I suppose it's too much to envision the inventiveness of the slaves, to think that they would have seen such items and been the ones to adapt them to the banjo. How many decades did it take to realize/admit that Joel Sweeney did not invent the drone string?

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