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Nov 28, 2021 - 4:35:15 AM

m06

England

10696 posts since 10/5/2006

Recently a thread was posted in off-topic noting anecdotally a claimed ‘trend’ that disturbed the OP. That ‘trend’ directly blamed employees as having a lower work ethic. No supporting data, just the OP's opinion.

Interestingly the pattern that is visible in current 2020/21 employment data is the recent huge spike in people resigning from their job not just in the US but in Europe too. We're in the midst of this pattern right now. This pattern is being referred to as the Great Resignation.

bbc.com/worklife/article/20211...signation

Bills still have to be paid and food put on the table so we can assume this pattern is one of change rather than blaming.

What are folks take on this pattern? Are there folks here on BHO who are a part of this pattern? Or considering it?

Edited by - m06 on 11/28/2021 04:40:18

Nov 28, 2021 - 4:42:54 AM
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DC5

USA

22129 posts since 6/30/2015

I retired before the pandemic, but if I hadn't I would have once it started. I would not have continued teaching under the new rules of the game. My spouse, 7 years my junior, would likely resign if she were forced back to the office. I think that, since many people could not work, and they received a lower rate of pay in order to not work, they discovered that they could get by with less, and they liked the slower pace of the mouse race, vs. the rat race. Just my opinion, based on nothing other than observation and nearly 70 years on the planet.

Nov 28, 2021 - 4:51:05 AM
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Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

26716 posts since 8/3/2003

Mike, I find nothing wrong with someone stating their opinion. That's what it is: an opinion. It was not stated as fact.

Without getting political, which this thread will no doubt get in a hurry, I think (an opinion here, not fact) people are enjoying staying home, doing what they want, not having to get up early, fight traffic, get to work and then fight traffic to get home. Having additional income for staying home helps people think it's okay to not work.

Others are resigning or threatening to do so if they don't get more money. If companies have to pay higher wages, guess who actually pays? The consumer. Prices go up, inflation continues, it's a spinning wagon wheel that is difficult to stop.

I'm retired and have been for some time and glad I don't have to worry whether to work or not work. My thoughts go out to those who are affected by the way the world is going right now.

Nov 28, 2021 - 5:06:42 AM
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m06

England

10696 posts since 10/5/2006

There’s no reason to believe that people’s personal motivation for resigning a job is a cue for breaking the BHO’s no politics rule. And I don't recall the OP of the thread I refer to receiving a pre-emptive warning about a possible political thread drift?

Quite the opposite from political, resigning a job is a very personal decision. I resigned my job in 2019 and completely changed the type of work I do. My decision had nothing whatsoever to do with politics.

This thread is comparing anecdotal opinion with an actual data-supported pattern: fact. There's nothing wrong with that either.

Edited by - m06 on 11/28/2021 05:20:41

Nov 28, 2021 - 6:17:51 AM
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m06

England

10696 posts since 10/5/2006

In my case I resigned from being an employee working in a sedentary 9-5 office job to self-employment establishing my own business doing a physically demanding outdoor job.

My reasons were to be more independent and more fulfilled in my work. Also to break with what I realised was the unhealthy cycle of being sedentary 8 hours a day 5 days a week.

I now sometimes work 6 or occasionally 7 days a week. I’m physically tired when I get home. But I get to choose where I work, have far greater variety, a healthy outdoor life - in an office environment I was overweight and caught a cold or other bug on average twice a year but since working outdoors I haven’t had any illness at all and am now lean and the weight I should be for my height. The challenge of learning new skills is inspiring and motivating. I feel valued and appreciated by my clients and I see a direct effect of my labour. Within 4 months of establishing my business I was fully booked and earning comparable monthly income with my previous office job, though my current monthly income is subject to small fluctuations up and down compared to the exact same pay cheque in my previous office job.

Independent? Yes. Real sense of purpose? Yes. More physically tired? Yes. Less stressed? Yes. More valued? Yes. Physically fitter? Yes. A sense of improved quality of life? Yes.

That’s ‘why’ for me. No-one else I know resigned their job so I had no idea I was part of a pattern. Now I know that this pattern is happening it interests me.

Edited by - m06 on 11/28/2021 06:25:09

Nov 28, 2021 - 6:29:58 AM
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chuckv97

Canada

61685 posts since 10/5/2013
Online Now

I worked well past 65 and would still be working a few months a year if my company had not been sold and then the pandemic hit. I’ve quit many jobs over the years but at 53 I found one I really liked.
A guy I knew years ago used to say “instead of finding a job you like, how about liking a job you find?”

Nov 28, 2021 - 6:51:37 AM
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8155 posts since 1/31/2003

Many quit because they were enabled to do so.
Many quit because they were enabled to do so and were willing to do so on the backs of the taxpayers who continued working.
Many quit because they were enabled to do so and were willing to do so on the backs of the taxpayers who continued working because they felt entitled to be takers instead of earners.

None of that says anything positive about those who made those specific choices.

In 2020 alone, a certain "program" suffered from over $200 billion in fraud, and that program is linked to those who chose to not work.
That says nothing positive about those who chose to not work either.

To work is to earn and is to be a contributing member of society. To not work if able to work is taking instead of earning, and is a taking member of society. The second number is growing when it should be lessening.

Not good.

Nov 28, 2021 - 7:00:22 AM
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2133 posts since 2/4/2013

I resigned from my job in my mid 50s a few years ago. I was unfortunately fortunate. It was my dream job but after fifteen years I was tired of the thinking and less inspired to keep up with the technical side and tired of commuting. I was lucky, through sad circumstances, to have the option. I fell into part time gardening almost by accident.

Nov 28, 2021 - 7:02:04 AM

m06

England

10696 posts since 10/5/2006

James there is no suggestion that the resignation pattern referred to is of people opting not to work.

If you read the BBC article I linked individuals such as the ex-fitness trainer employed at a gym describe a moment of realisation that they needed to change career path. The gym worker because he realised that gyms are crowded spaces and post-covid likely to be less frequented. Less frequented equates to less income and therefore less job security.

The reasons underlying the pattern appear to be intelligent, proactive and  highly enterprising. Identifying a looming problem and taking steps to avoid it.

I suspect the enforced changes to routine in lockdown also contributed to many people experiencing a respite from a tolerated but disliked 'normality' and having space and perspective to rethink their priorities.

Edited by - m06 on 11/28/2021 07:11:21

Nov 28, 2021 - 7:40:05 AM
Players Union Member

DC5

USA

22129 posts since 6/30/2015

My only retirement fear, if you can count it a fear, is that my income is basically fixed for the rest of my life. If the inflationary spiral continues, my income will not match, and my savings will be diminished. I could end up bagging groceries and retrieving shopping carts at the grocery store - the very place where I started.

Nov 28, 2021 - 7:42:56 AM
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Players Union Member

DC5

USA

22129 posts since 6/30/2015

quote:
Originally posted by m06

 I haven’t had any illness at all and am now lean and the weight I should be for my height.


For me I'm still just a little too short for my weight.

Nov 28, 2021 - 7:47:31 AM

2975 posts since 2/10/2013

When I was younger, I was in a science class and the instructor bred beagle hounds. One day a fellow classmate asked this instructor if he ever gave away beagle puppies. The instructor said he would not do that. He thought that people had little or no appreciation for things they did not earn.

Over time events seem to verify this instructor's opinion. During the depression, during Roosevelt's first term in office, people receiving government aid worked in projects like the WPA and CCC. Senior citizens I met who worked in these programs were appreciative and some even enjoyed the time spent doing this. The area I grew up in had many structures which were constructed by people working for these agencies. Especially small bridges. The bridges had the name "WPA" or "CCC" and the date imbedded in the cement. I used those bridges decades later and appreciated the work performed by the workers.

In one country I resided in, individuals receiving governmental support or a relative, were required to work on designated projects. And the work was not like having eight workers,with 7 people leaning on shovels and 1 person working. I frequently see events like this.  Especially during the big gulf coast oil spill.  Doing this was probably enough to make a person think "Damn - I might as well get a job".

Edited by - Richard Hauser on 11/28/2021 07:51:06

Nov 28, 2021 - 8:56:55 AM
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Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

26716 posts since 8/3/2003

quote:
Originally posted by m06

James there is no suggestion that the resignation pattern referred to is of people opting not to work.

If you read the BBC article I linked individuals such as the ex-fitness trainer employed at a gym describe a moment of realisation that they needed to change career path. The gym worker because he realised that gyms are crowded spaces and post-covid likely to be less frequented. Less frequented equates to less income and therefore less job security.

The reasons underlying the pattern appear to be intelligent, proactive and  highly enterprising. Identifying a looming problem and taking steps to avoid it.

I suspect the enforced changes to routine in lockdown also contributed to many people experiencing a respite from a tolerated but disliked 'normality' and having space and perspective to rethink their priorities.


I don't know what's happening in your part of the world, but around here,  fast food workers, waiters and waitresses, clerks and checkers, people doing manual labor,  many are not working, they are staying home.  I doubt if it's because they want to change careers but because they can make about as much staying home as they did working. When the unemployment finally runs out, they will be forced to go back to work or go on welfare.  Many will choose to take welfare rather than work for a living.    Others will go back to being a person making a living, not just having his or her hand out. 

Those who have the education/experience/knowhow  to change jobs, may be resigning and looking for different, better paying, better perks or better working conditions and with the job market here like it is, they can probably find something else. 

Most people I know here were more than ready to go back to work and glad when they could.  I've not heard of many that have resigned.  IF they are looking for different work, they're smart enough to find a job before they quit the one they have.

Nov 28, 2021 - 9:28:14 AM
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m06

England

10696 posts since 10/5/2006

quote:
Originally posted by Texasbanjo
>I don't know what's happening in your part of the world, but around here,  fast food workers, waiters and waitresses, clerks and checkers, people doing manual labor,  many are not working, they are staying home.  I doubt if it's because they want to change careers but because they can make about as much staying home as they did working. When the unemployment finally runs out, they will be forced to go back to work or go on welfare.<

 


We are not referring to the same thing. Employees here who voluntarily resign their job are not eligible for welfare. Employees who are put on furlough and continue to receive a percentage of their salary are still employed and have not resigned.

The article and my OP refer specifically to the identified current huge spike in employee resignation. The examples in the article describe individuals whose motive was a change of direction.

Ironically it's your focus on 'wage demands', 'hand outs' and an assumption of scrounging that is introducing a political tone

I politely suggest you read the article. Then you may understand that those experts who are analysing the data are not yet able to define the precise nature of this change.

 

Are you suggesting that people who work as waiters, waitresses, clerks, cashiers, etc., cannot resign/quit their jobs?  You are wrong, they can quit/resign or whatever you want to call it, just as easily as any other working person.    Do you think that the above employees haven't been put on furlough to come back when they can?  If so, you're completely out of touch with what's happening, at least here in the U.S.

If you think all those people who are resigning aren't resigning in order to find a better paying job, you need to get back in touch with working people.     The very idea of this whole thread is for people to get more money at their jobs, along with better working conditions.    You can call it "wage demands",  better pay, higher wages or whatever you want to call it, it's still for more money.  If that's political then the whole idea of working at all must be political.  Me thinks you like to twist things around to mean what you want them to mean, not what they actually do mean.

Edited by - Texasbanjo on 11/28/2021 11:31:18

Nov 28, 2021 - 9:59:06 AM

m06

England

10696 posts since 10/5/2006

I’ve also already detailed my own resignation that is presumably part of this identified huge spike.

None of the politicised, blame-laden reasons you refer to had any influence on my decision at all. I didn't blackmail my employer. I didn’t claim welfare. I wasn’t better off at home than working. I wasn’t work shy.

I chose to change direction.

That an unprecedented number of people are doing the same at the same time is interesting. And a phenomenon that researchers are watching and trying to analyse.

Edited by - m06 on 11/28/2021 10:10:47

Nov 28, 2021 - 10:10:02 AM

8155 posts since 1/31/2003

quote:
Originally posted by m06

James there is no suggestion that the resignation pattern referred to is of people opting not to work.

If you read the BBC article I linked individuals such as the ex-fitness trainer employed at a gym describe a moment of realisation that they needed to change career path. The gym worker because he realised that gyms are crowded spaces and post-covid likely to be less frequented. Less frequented equates to less income and therefore less job security.

The reasons underlying the pattern appear to be intelligent, proactive and  highly enterprising. Identifying a looming problem and taking steps to avoid it.

I suspect the enforced changes to routine in lockdown also contributed to many people experiencing a respite from a tolerated but disliked 'normality' and having space and perspective to rethink their priorities.


I'm speaking of in the US. I and others I know have personally seen examples of what I'm talking about.

One such person said, "Well, my money ran out, so I have to go back to work."

Another was in a nursing home, where, regardless of the manager saying he would fight it, workers quit to draw the extra unemployment. They lost. Worse than that, they were willing to let the nursing home residents suffer by not having the care they needed.

I could go on but don't see the need. It happened, and that's a fact, and those are just the examples I know about. There's no telling how widespread it was across the country.

Nov 28, 2021 - 10:12:36 AM

7418 posts since 9/5/2006

Globally, 16% of companies are fully remote according to an Owl labs study. This same study found that about 62% of workers aged 22 to 65 claim to work remotely at least occasionally.

This study also found that 44% of companies do not allow remote work of any kind.
and the numbers are predicted to increase in the next 5 years.

Nov 28, 2021 - 10:13:40 AM

m06

England

10696 posts since 10/5/2006

Please answer this: Are people in the US eligible for welfare (unemployment support) if they voluntarily resign their job?

In the U.K. voluntarily quitting your job  (unless subject to proven constructive dismissal) means you are not eligible for financial support.

Edited by - m06 on 11/28/2021 10:18:35

Nov 28, 2021 - 10:31:12 AM

8155 posts since 1/31/2003

quote:
Originally posted by m06

Please answer this: Are people in the US eligible for welfare (unemployment support) if they voluntarily resign their job?

In the U.K. voluntarily quitting your job  (unless subject to proven constructive dismissal) means you are not eligible for financial support.


Straight from the website.

The CARES Act gives states the option of extending unemployment compensation to independent contractors and other workers who are ordinarily ineligible for unemployment benefits.

As with my post about lying, people do it all the time to commit unemployment and welfare fraud.

Edited by - jbanjoist on 11/28/2021 10:33:07

Nov 28, 2021 - 10:48:13 AM
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7418 posts since 9/5/2006

in our state if you quit you are not eligible.. if you are fired you may be,,depending on circumstances,,, if you are laid off yes. but they will try to find you suitable work first.

last year the covid packages had many options ,,but they are not extended now

Edited by - 1935tb-11 on 11/28/2021 10:49:50

Nov 28, 2021 - 11:35:04 AM
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Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

26716 posts since 8/3/2003

quote:
Originally posted by m06

I’ve also already detailed my own resignation that is presumably part of this identified huge spike.

None of the politicised, blame-laden reasons you refer to had any influence on my decision at all. I didn't blackmail my employer. I didn’t claim welfare. I wasn’t better off at home than working. I wasn’t work shy.

I chose to change direction.

That an unprecedented number of people are doing the same at the same time is interesting. And a phenomenon that researchers are watching and trying to analyse.


You're trying to twist what I said to your way of thinking.  I said nothing about blame-laden reasons and nothing about political reasons.   I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't think you can read my mind.  You can't.

Also I guess you think everyone is exactly like you in their thinking?  Think again.  Most people just want more money first, then better working conditions, more perks, etc.  Money is the leader here whether you want to admit it or not.

Nov 28, 2021 - 11:37:48 AM

chuckv97

Canada

61685 posts since 10/5/2013
Online Now

Not sure if it’s still like this now, but in Canada if you quit your job you’d have to wait 6 weeks before you’d be eligible for unemployment insurance , which paid about 2/3 of your previous income. To survive in the meantime you could get welfare which paid less than the poverty level. I suppose this helped people escape deplorable working conditions or an unreasonable boss.

Nov 28, 2021 - 11:55:01 AM
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290 posts since 10/26/2018

quote:
Originally posted by 1935tb-11

in our state if you quit you are not eligible.. if you are fired you may be,,depending on circumstances,,, if you are laid off yes. but they will try to find you suitable work first.

last year the covid packages had many options ,,but they are not extended now


Same rules here, and we were among the first states to stop allowing whatever extras covid brought. I don't know how many of you ask have worked some of the low paying jobs (the huge hospitality industry particularly, but there are plenty others) or have worked them recently where pay rates haven't kept up with the economy, but those jobs are only a step above indentured servant. Many who didn't return to the hospitality industry have decided they don't want to work for chicken feed in an economy that requires at least a whole chicken to be above the poverty line. I know several who have found work where they are treated better and are appreciated. I worked my share of them and can confirm, hospitality work sucks. 

My wife recently quit her company of 25 years when a new manager was hired who felt she didn't need to train with my wife in order know the ins and outs of a position that my wife spent 15 years to become an expert in. She found a job doing something similar that started out at the SAME WAGE she was making after 25 years of working. I also work for that company (28 years) and was trained by my wife for the same position she had. When she quit, I am now the "expert" with only 11 months in the position because the manager still hasn't learned all of the job details. Now I'm looking for work, possibly at the same company my wife moved to, because after 28 years, it seems as though my current company is getting by paying as little as possible for work that involves being responsible for millions of dollars a year (literally) of beneficiary funds. They offered $13 an hour to the person that took her job (less than the McDonald's pays now), and it took 3 months to find someone willing to do it. I started at my company at $4.25 minimum wage, and currently make less than if I were to have received a 50¢ raise every year. If it hadn't been for the fact that I loved the positions I held and the good work my company does, I'd have jumped ship a lot sooner. Some of us (statistically most) quit our managers, not our jobs. 

Nov 28, 2021 - 11:55:56 AM
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m06

England

10696 posts since 10/5/2006

quote:
Originally posted by Texasbanjo
>Many will choose to take welfare rather than work for a living<. 

^^ Why twist when I can simply quote you?

It's not me reading minds; when you state that you know what 'many' other people will choose to do.

That's an easy one.  Just read the statistics on welfare recipients new and old and you'll see I'm stating truth, not fiction.

And I think you enjoy twisting things around to your way of thinking.  

Edited by - Texasbanjo on 11/28/2021 14:19:11

Nov 28, 2021 - 11:58:47 AM

banjo bill-e

Tuvalu

11808 posts since 2/22/2007
Online Now

Since the article conflates people moving from employee to self employed with the "lie flat" movement and also with those choosing some form of pandemic relief over employment, resulting in a confusing mess, then can it be surprising that this thread does the same?

Nov 28, 2021 - 12:02:52 PM

m06

England

10696 posts since 10/5/2006

Billy, thank you for the information on US rules on eligibility.

If folks in the US, same as in the U.K., are not eligible for welfare if they voluntarily resign their job then, as I thought, the observed huge spike in resignations has nothing to do with claiming welfare.

So what is driving this pattern and why now?

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