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Nov 16, 2021 - 9:07:59 AM
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123 posts since 9/12/2006

We mostly associate extended chords with 4-string jazz players, but the same chords can be found on the 5-string. They sometimes require some tricky fingerings that you won't be used to if you only play bluegrass. Often you'd be thinking of jazz standards like Misty and All of Me to come up with such chords, but many of them can be found in Chicago's 1970 Colour My World.

Would be interested to hear from others that have played around with tunes requiring what amounts to "unusual" chords.


Nov 16, 2021 - 9:14:06 AM

chuckv97

Canada

61707 posts since 10/5/2013
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I also play fingerstyle guitar, and have tackled some old tunes from the American Songbook, so I wasn’t too out of my league when I learned Alan Munde and Beth Mead’s arrangements of “Heartaches” and “I’ll See You in My Dreams” on the 5-string. Interesting topic, Eddie,, thnx.

Edited by - chuckv97 on 11/16/2021 09:14:34

Nov 16, 2021 - 9:31:25 AM
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12597 posts since 6/2/2008

Only a little.

This arrangement uses extended chords throughout. But I rarely hold a four-finger shape. I have a few other original arrangements I'm slowly working on, and I've played around with some of the pieces in Alan Munde's Great American Banjo Songbook and spending a little time with Pat Cloud's Straight Ahead Jazz for Banjo.

 

Nov 16, 2021 - 10:39:36 AM
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3762 posts since 9/12/2016

The 20s and 30s was a great era chords printed in their place above lyrics seemed to be just coming into vogue.Don Reno and Arthur Smith covered some good ones on their feudin again album
I attempt probably a dozen from that era.
This attempt is not one of them but still fits the topic twice ha ha

 

Nov 16, 2021 - 11:52:29 AM
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Alex Z

USA

4599 posts since 12/7/2006

quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickory

Only a little.

This arrangement uses extended chords throughout. But I rarely hold a four-finger shape. I have a few other original arrangements I'm slowly working on, and I've played around with some of the pieces in Alan Munde's Great American Banjo Songbook and spending a little time with Pat Cloud's Straight Ahead Jazz for Banjo.

 

 


I really enjoyed this.  Creative arrangement on the banjo, yet true to the original tune.

Nov 16, 2021 - 2:25:26 PM
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8340 posts since 6/30/2020

Good topic Eddie and nice job covering the old Chicago tune!

While it’s true that banjo players aren’t generally exposed to extended or altered chord patterns, I’m confident that it’s within everyone’s ability to incorporate some of theses ideas into ones everyday playing routine should they wish to step outside the banjo box a bit. Like everything associated with with learning, spending quality time practicing is paramount.

My main instrument for over 1/2 century has been guitar. Over that period of time I have studied a variety of musical genre and have dedicated instruments for each style of music I am serious about (Fingerstyle, Jazz, electric, and of course banjo). Most serious experienced guitar players are familiar with the material you presented and for the most part know the chords by memory or can figure them out on the fly. It’s important to realize and understand how useful chord inversions and partial chord fingerings can be in eliminating very difficult fingerings for some of these chords. Indeed banjo players regularly use inversions or partials so it is not as daunting as it appears at the onset.
I am seeing more banjo enthusiasts who are broadening the spectrum of music capable on banjo, and I for one, think it’s pretty exciting.

Nov 16, 2021 - 3:06:23 PM
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8340 posts since 6/30/2020

quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickory

Only a little.

This arrangement uses extended chords throughout. But I rarely hold a four-finger shape. I have a few other original arrangements I'm slowly working on, and I've played around with some of the pieces in Alan Munde's Great American Banjo Songbook and spending a little time with Pat Cloud's Straight Ahead Jazz for Banjo.


Ken, 

I really enjoyed your playing! It's very relaxing and is a great example of the versatility and capability of the banjo. Excellent!

Nov 16, 2021 - 3:57:08 PM

3762 posts since 9/12/2016

Eddy Davis the deceased -4 string giant knew a lot. What I learned from him was that some chord extras like 2nds and 4ths though overbearing to my ear -when raised an octave to the 9th or eleventh- it tamed them into nice harmony imo. Sometimes to get the juicy notes in ,very few of the original chord exists. I have a great book by someone? with a great ear ,any way it lists the important notes in all altered chords. An example is. G7 needs the b note more so than it needs a G or D.He gets into great and correct sounding examples of about all of them

Nov 16, 2021 - 4:10:35 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

61707 posts since 10/5/2013
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They used to call that B and F, or any similar aug4th, the “devil’s interval”

Edited by - chuckv97 on 11/16/2021 16:11:18

Nov 17, 2021 - 5:45:54 AM
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3762 posts since 9/12/2016

another one
Nov 17, 2021 - 6:22:24 AM
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4022 posts since 3/28/2008

Excellent, Old Hickory! Definite Munde vibe in that mix of "adult" chords and right-hand rolls.

Here's one of my efforts in chord melody. (If you're a Christmas-music hardliner, wait until after Thanksgiving to watch it.)


Nov 17, 2021 - 6:42:07 AM
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4022 posts since 3/28/2008

Also for the season, some fun left-hand work in the bridge here.


Nov 17, 2021 - 6:54:59 AM
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chuckv97

Canada

61707 posts since 10/5/2013
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Here’s one that Merle Travis often played on guitar,, arrangement by Alan Munde and Beth Mead.


Nov 17, 2021 - 7:09:16 AM
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8340 posts since 6/30/2020

Great work Ira!
It’s obvious you are enjoying yourself, as I did listening and watching your chord selections, picking patterns, and voicing.
Seasonal songs are a great outlet for alternate banjo arrangements, especially since there is usually an available captive audience (read relatives) at some point during the holidays.
All of this fine music has lit a fire under my keister and I think today I will rifle through my jazz guitar books and select a song or two and render up a holiday offering of my own, both on banjo and guitar.

Chuck, As always I enjoyed your offerings also!

Edited by - Pick-A-Lick on 11/17/2021 07:10:33

Nov 17, 2021 - 7:13:01 AM
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7247 posts since 8/30/2004

Wonderful Ken,
Maybe just a bit slower would capture the original more...great arrangement though...Jack

Originally posted by Old Hickory

Only a little.

 

Nov 17, 2021 - 7:17:33 AM
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7247 posts since 8/30/2004

Great Ira,
Perhaps a few more gentle brushes and simple passing tones in the bridge rather than those hurried chord grabs...just a thought...Jack

Originally posted by Ira Gitlin

Also for the season, some fun left-hand work in the bridge here.


Edited by - Jack Baker on 11/17/2021 07:20:36

Nov 17, 2021 - 9:19:10 AM
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7247 posts since 8/30/2004

To my eye, it looks like you're rushing to get all those passing chords in there. Listen to Herb Ellis, Kenny Burrell, Johnny Smith; they all use rapid arpeggiated notes suggesting the chords and let the listener fill in the chord. You play great Ira so my post is only to point out how to make a song not sound rushed or forced. Many here on BHO will disagree with me of course Ha!!....Jack

Edited by - Jack Baker on 11/17/2021 09:20:29

Nov 17, 2021 - 12:23:25 PM

123 posts since 9/12/2006

Appreciate all the conversation here you all. I remember hearing your White Christmas before Ira and really appreciate what you're doing with that. The common thread here seems to be as you lean more towards jazz you're going to necessarily discover additional chords. I look forward to giving a listen to the other examples given here.

Nov 17, 2021 - 2:21:51 PM
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5803 posts since 12/20/2005

Terrific playing from all of you.

Nov 17, 2021 - 3:07:15 PM
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123 posts since 9/12/2006

So I literally was busted for playing a Major 7th chord at a bluegrass festival one time.


Nov 17, 2021 - 4:55:39 PM
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8340 posts since 6/30/2020

quote:
Originally posted by Eddie Collins

So I literally was busted for playing a Major 7th chord at a bluegrass festival one time.


Those hard-core Bluegrasser purists are a tough crowd! They can turn on you in a heartbeat! No sense of humor when it comes to straying a bit from the roadmap that's for sure. LOL!
But, apparently some the Jazz guys are the same, and I'm sure there is a contingent in every crowd dedicated to every genre that likes to hear the music played the way it's "supposed" to be played. 
Something for everyone they say. Meanwhile, like you Eddie, I'll continue on with my beautiful major 7th chords. 

Nov 17, 2021 - 5:30:27 PM

chuckv97

Canada

61707 posts since 10/5/2013
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Didn’t Bill Monroe himself sing a maj7th harmony against Mac Wiseman’s lead on “Can’t You Hear Me Calling” ?

Nov 17, 2021 - 5:57:39 PM

3762 posts since 9/12/2016

you got me there Chuck-
A major 7 harmony type escapes my knowledge.I understand harmony being a chord tone that is correct but not the melody note. The major seven being a semitone down from the octave is also in my brain but that is all I have.

Nov 17, 2021 - 6:11:22 PM

3762 posts since 9/12/2016

There are crazy ways folks go about getting that flatted third in there --without going to a full fledged minor. In the key of G--- Melancholy Baby goes to a D sharp chord.When I was a cowboy goes to a C 7==After Midnight B-flat--Or everybody play the G power chord root 5 no third-- Bluegrass would not be complete --without the 3-2 pull off type ornaments
A favorite lately is after you're gone.

Nov 17, 2021 - 6:13:54 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

61707 posts since 10/5/2013
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quote:
Originally posted by Tractor1

you got me there Chuck-
A major 7 harmony type escapes my knowledge.I understand harmony being a chord tone that is correct but not the melody note. The major seven being a semitone down from the octave is also in my brain but that is all I have.


Lol,, thnx ?.. at the 0:48 second mark Mac sings a G and Bill sings a high B, against the C chord. B being the maj7 of the C chord. Eerie & very cool! 
https://youtu.be/_nbtj4DjrH4


 

Edited by - chuckv97 on 11/17/2021 18:22:55

Nov 17, 2021 - 9:11:43 PM

3762 posts since 9/12/2016

I consider playing 2 simultaneous tones a semitone apart the most discordant possible. -but the G being sounded loves to harmonize and ring with both the C and the B. It took one tremendous ear to sing that

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