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Oct 26, 2021 - 9:08:43 PM

Tommy5

USA

3943 posts since 2/22/2009
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I’m thinking of getting a little semi- auto pistol, I’m looking at the popular Shield series from SW, I prefer a .40 caliber one for a bit more stopping power however it looks like 9 mm is far more popular in these small autos and I’m frankly worried if .40 caliber will be available in the future, is the difference in these bullets matter much.? Does anyone else have a preference for another compact auto and want to convince me to change my mind? I have heard good things about the Hellcat or the Glock, the weapon would be used for self defense and possibly concealed carry so no Dirty Harry suggestions I can’t carry that cannon.

Oct 27, 2021 - 2:29:44 AM
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Soop

USA

678 posts since 4/24/2006

Bullet placement is more important than size. Find a gun store that has a range, or someone who will let you try out the 9 and the 40, and pick the caliber you can accurately shoot, and the caliber that you can get back on target the quickest after each shot. The 40 caliber is very popular and in large use throughout law enforcement agencies in the US, so it isn't going away any time soon.

Oct 27, 2021 - 2:49:19 AM
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PaulRF

Australia

3256 posts since 2/1/2012

Found this article which gave good information on both.

https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/40sw-vs-9mm/

Oct 27, 2021 - 2:53:07 AM
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4373 posts since 12/24/2003

9mm is more available and a little cheaper, ammo wise. Also look at the Canik TP9 elite compact. The Taurus G3C is also an excellent conceal carry gun for the money. You'll want jacketed hollow point defense ammo for conceal carry. Full metal jacket (ball rounds) are primarily for target shooting.

Tim

Edited by - Tim Purcell on 10/27/2021 02:55:42

Oct 27, 2021 - 5:10:03 AM
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AGACNP

USA

209 posts since 10/12/2011

I have the .40 Glock 27. With the shorter grip, you might find it a bit “snappy.” I like shooting it, but it’s a little fatiguing with > 50 rounds at a session.

Oct 27, 2021 - 5:10:24 AM
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wizofos

USA

6185 posts since 8/19/2012

I have heard the argument about getting back on target and don't agree. If you hit the target the first time and use a large enough slug you don't need to worry about it. I like the good old .45 acp. The first shot will stop almost anything smaller than a charging elephant. The other issue is that the old 1911 action is simple to break down and reliable as H***.
Spend some time on the range and hit your target the first time and you ain't gonna be worried about getting back on target.

Oct 27, 2021 - 5:55:41 AM
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410 posts since 4/11/2019

I realize that .45 wasn't in the OP, but I second the choice of .45.

The 1911 platform in .45 is the way to go for me.

Oct 27, 2021 - 6:08:27 AM
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dat

USA

31572 posts since 7/26/2006

There are some nice small 45’s out there,

But don’t be worried about a full frame 45either
I carry a colt xse government model SOB IWB. Easier than you would think.

But of the two you asked about, hard choice, I like the 40, but 9 is cheaper and easier to get, if you reload, I would go with the 40

There is a lot of advertising on the S&W,  but I believe i would look at a Sig or a Glock

Edited by - dat on 10/27/2021 06:10:40

Oct 27, 2021 - 6:21:24 AM
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figmo59

USA

34447 posts since 3/5/2008

Tommy5....
Opinions are nice...

Pick what you want...

It's your banjo kid...
Play it any way you want....
Coined from Mr. MIKE GREGORY...

Oct 27, 2021 - 6:57 AM
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1630 posts since 10/12/2011

I'm a firearms instructor as part of my day job. The old 9mm back in the 80's was under powered and did not preform well, thus the mass switch to the 40 S&W for most all LEO. Over the past 40 years the ballistics of the 9 mm have been tweaked to be a very capable performer. Now most LEO have been migrating back to 9mm for the reduced recoil/ accuracy.

Personally I'd go with 9mm. Get good ammo, and you'll be on your way. I carry a Colt Officer 45ACP as my off duty concealed carry gun.  But the movement has been going 9mm.

Edited by - buckholler on 10/27/2021 07:13:58

Oct 27, 2021 - 6:57:50 AM
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dat

USA

31572 posts since 7/26/2006

Fig is right, everybody’s hand is different, pick what feels comfortable and points easy,
One thing i do when handling any firearm is shut my eyes, shoulder it if it’s a shotgun or rifle, point if it’s a handgun, then open my eyes, see if it’s a natural fit.
As far as caliber, i like to punch big holes, but nothing wrong with little ones either

Oct 27, 2021 - 7:02:03 AM
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banjo bill-e

Tuvalu

11698 posts since 2/22/2007

I would eliminate any firearm lacking an effective and easy to use thumb safety. The blade on the trigger is---perhaps---sufficient for the trained professional carrying in a duty holster, but imo, too dangerous for the civilian carrying concealed.
So, is concealed carry the intended use? If so, size and weight matter a lot, and in a compact lightweight pistol I believe that you would be happier with 9mm, and I would choose the Beretta PX Storm Compact Carry model. If not for CC, get a 1911 in 45ACP.

Oct 27, 2021 - 7:32:14 AM
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12688 posts since 1/15/2005

Both my daughter and I have a Model 19 Glock (9 MM) that we both like very much. It is considered a compact, but in your hand it doesn't feel like a compact and is very comfortable to shoot. I agree with Soop that shot placement is a lot more important than "stopping power", whatever that is.

Link to nice write-up on the Glock 19.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/glock-model-19-9mm-gen-4-gunthe-best-compact-pistol-world-130222
 

Oct 27, 2021 - 7:41 AM
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705 posts since 10/9/2017

quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

I would eliminate any firearm lacking an effective and easy to use thumb safety. The blade on the trigger is---perhaps---sufficient for the trained professional carrying in a duty holster, but imo, too dangerous for the civilian carrying concealed.
So, is concealed carry the intended use? If so, size and weight matter a lot, and in a compact lightweight pistol I believe that you would be happier with 9mm, and I would choose the Beretta PX Storm Compact Carry model. If not for CC, get a 1911 in 45ACP.


Great choice, but no safety on that baby - decocker only. Love mine; I've never gotten on with Tyrolean shooters. I also love 1911, but for CC I might say get one in 9mm for the extra rounds. Terminal performance of 9mm is much better these days, as @buckholler said.

Oct 27, 2021 - 7:54:49 AM
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1381 posts since 9/6/2019

The best advice I can give is to find a range with several options and shoot them all to see which one you like the best. I carry either a compact 1911 or a Ruger LC380. The absolute worst thing you can do is buy a carry gun that you end up not liking or that doesn't feel right when you fire it. Just holding one in the store is OK but you never really know if you like it until the recoil hits your hand.

Oct 27, 2021 - 8:08:56 AM
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599 posts since 1/28/2011
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quote:
Originally posted by buckholler

I'm a firearms instructor as part of my day job. The old 9mm back in the 80's was under powered and did not preform well, thus the mass switch to the 40 S&W for most all LEO. Over the past 40 years the ballistics of the 9 mm have been tweaked to be a very capable performer. Now most LEO have been migrating back to 9mm for the reduced recoil/ accuracy.

Personally I'd go with 9mm. Get good ammo, and you'll be on your way. I carry a Colt Officer 45ACP as my off duty concealed carry gun.  But the movement has been going 9mm.


I agree.  I was the range master for the police department when we made the change from 9mm to 40 cal.  When we changed, every officer was still able to qualify, but their scores went down.  We did not change the type of gun.  We just went from a Beretta 92 FS to a Beretta 96 FS.  The exact same gun except for the caliber.  The 40 caliber is harder to shoot because of the sharper recoil, but I don't think that is the only reason the scores dropped.   I have shot a lot of handguns.  The 40 caliber round just does not seem to be as accurate to me as the 9 mm.  I have shot all three calibers, 9mm, 40 and 45.  The 45 recoil is hard to describe compared to the recoil of the 40 cal.  It just seems softer than the 40.  Maybe it is just as hard, but a slower movement.  Whatever it is, I prefer the 9 and 45 over the 40.  Now, after all this discussion about accuracy, I will say that for a self defense weapon, any of the 3 calibers will suffice.  If you are in a situation where you are far enough away, with enough time to take careful aim, you are probably in a situation where retreat would be the best choice.

Oct 27, 2021 - 9:36:46 AM
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12688 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by latigo1
quote:
Originally posted by buckholler

I'm a firearms instructor as part of my day job. The old 9mm back in the 80's was under powered and did not preform well, thus the mass switch to the 40 S&W for most all LEO. Over the past 40 years the ballistics of the 9 mm have been tweaked to be a very capable performer. Now most LEO have been migrating back to 9mm for the reduced recoil/ accuracy.

Personally I'd go with 9mm. Get good ammo, and you'll be on your way. I carry a Colt Officer 45ACP as my off duty concealed carry gun.  But the movement has been going 9mm.


I agree.  I was the range master for the police department when we made the change from 9mm to 40 cal.  When we changed, every officer was still able to qualify, but their scores went down.  We did not change the type of gun.  We just went from a Beretta 92 FS to a Beretta 96 FS.  The exact same gun except for the caliber.  The 40 caliber is harder to shoot because of the sharper recoil, but I don't think that is the only reason the scores dropped.   I have shot a lot of handguns.  The 40 caliber round just does not seem to be as accurate to me as the 9 mm.  I have shot all three calibers, 9mm, 40 and 45.  The 45 recoil is hard to describe compared to the recoil of the 40 cal.  It just seems softer than the 40.  Maybe it is just as hard, but a slower movement.  Whatever it is, I prefer the 9 and 45 over the 40.  Now, after all this discussion about accuracy, I will say that for a self defense weapon, any of the 3 calibers will suffice.  If you are in a situation where you are far enough away, with enough time to take careful aim, you are probably in a situation where retreat would be the best choice.


Excellent post Dave.  I carried a 1911A1 and M79 Grenade Launcher when I was a platoon commander in Viet Nam.  I don't ever recall firing the .45, as m,y motto was "you fire it, you gotta clean it" ..... and at the range I would have been firing it from I was never going to hit my target.  I carried flechette rounds for my grenade launcher so I didn't have too much about accuracy.smiley

Oct 27, 2021 - 11:16 AM

Tommy5

USA

3943 posts since 2/22/2009
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Thanks for all of the informative responses. I did once own a .45 long Colt single action replica revolver once. A cowboy gun, now that gun had some fire power, very well balanced nice barrel very accurate especially the first shot, a bit slow with the rest of the shots with single action and huge recoil. A larger pistol would be better and more powerful and accurate, but to use as a concealed carry , heavy and maybe a bit clumsy. Another decision is whether to buy a 4 inch barrel or the smaller 3.1 inch barrel , nowadays they even have these small pistols carry 12-13 rounds, I think I would rather have a single stack 6-7 round magazine, at any rate I have a long time to mull this over as my IL. Foil card is still being processed and that could take months or even years. Yes , I will try out all of the compact autos to see which one feels right,.

Oct 27, 2021 - 11:32:16 AM
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dat

USA

31572 posts since 7/26/2006

Our youngest daughter has the hellcat, she loves it, I haven’t shot it, small for my hands

Oct 27, 2021 - 11:53:21 AM
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599 posts since 1/28/2011
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by Tommy5

Thanks for all of the informative responses. I did once own a .45 long Colt single action replica revolver once. A cowboy gun, now that gun had some fire power, very well balanced nice barrel very accurate especially the first shot, a bit slow with the rest of the shots with single action and huge recoil. A larger pistol would be better and more powerful and accurate, but to use as a concealed carry , heavy and maybe a bit clumsy. Another decision is whether to buy a 4 inch barrel or the smaller 3.1 inch barrel , nowadays they even have these small pistols carry 12-13 rounds, I think I would rather have a single stack 6-7 round magazine, at any rate I have a long time to mull this over as my IL. Foil card is still being processed and that could take months or even years. Yes , I will try out all of the compact autos to see which one feels right,.


The 45 long Colt revolver has significantly more recoil than a 45 semi auto.  As far as a pistol with or without a safety goes, a single action semi auto will have at least one safety, most have two, a thumb safety and a grip safety.  This type of gun has a light trigger pull, but requires more practice because you have more to think about and do.  Some people carry them with an empty chamber.  Some people carry them with a round in the chamber but in an uncocked position.  Both methods require you to either rack a round into the chamber, or physically cock the hammer.  Experienced people carry them cocked and locked. (round in the chamber, hammer cocked, safety on.  A double action semi auto does not really need a safety.  Not even the little wiggly thing that are on some triggers.  The trigger must be pulled far enough to do two things, cock the hammer, and after being moved a little farther to the rear, release the hammer.  It is a long movement of the trigger which by itself eliminates a chance of error, unless the person is totally stupid or ignorant of guns. It is no different than your average double action revolver, and If any double action revolvers have a safety I am unaware of it.  Proper gun safety is to never put your finger on the trigger until you intend to squeeze it.

Oct 27, 2021 - 12:30:19 PM
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ChunoTheDog

Canada

1133 posts since 8/9/2019

Another vote here for a compact Glock in 9mm.
I don't understand what people see in that line of SW that they don't find on a Glock?

Overall a better little pistol.

Also 9mm is cheaper than SW .40 and statistically-speaking, you're most likely to engage a target within 6-8 feet of yourself.
At that distance, shot placement isn't incredibly difficult and that follow-up shot is also easily landed.
A bigger, heavier and more expensive caliber won't help you out anyway. Two shots center-mass from that close wether 9m or 40SW will be the same end-result; a very bad day for a bad person.

Happy pistol hunting
(*cries in Canadian)

Oct 27, 2021 - 12:40:05 PM
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ChunoTheDog

Canada

1133 posts since 8/9/2019

quote:
Originally posted by Banjonewguy

The best advice I can give is to find a range with several options and shoot them all to see which one you like the best. I carry either a compact 1911 or a Ruger LC380. The absolute worst thing you can do is buy a carry gun that you end up not liking or that doesn't feel right when you fire it. Just holding one in the store is OK but you never really know if you like it until the recoil hits your hand.


This is huge and often overlooked. Properly fitting your hand size to the frame size will do wonders for accuracy and ergonomics.

Great advice. 

Oct 27, 2021 - 12:44:49 PM
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dat

USA

31572 posts since 7/26/2006

quote:
Originally posted by ChunoTheDog

Another vote here for a compact Glock in 9mm.
I don't understand what people see in that line of SW that they don't find on a Glock?

Overall a better little pistol.
 


Price, the S&W is probably about $100 less , which the extra would be money well spent in my opinion 

Oct 27, 2021 - 12:47:03 PM
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12688 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by latigo1
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy5

Thanks for all of the informative responses. I did once own a .45 long Colt single action replica revolver once. A cowboy gun, now that gun had some fire power, very well balanced nice barrel very accurate especially the first shot, a bit slow with the rest of the shots with single action and huge recoil. A larger pistol would be better and more powerful and accurate, but to use as a concealed carry , heavy and maybe a bit clumsy. Another decision is whether to buy a 4 inch barrel or the smaller 3.1 inch barrel , nowadays they even have these small pistols carry 12-13 rounds, I think I would rather have a single stack 6-7 round magazine, at any rate I have a long time to mull this over as my IL. Foil card is still being processed and that could take months or even years. Yes , I will try out all of the compact autos to see which one feels right,.


The 45 long Colt revolver has significantly more recoil than a 45 semi auto.  As far as a pistol with or without a safety goes, a single action semi auto will have at least one safety, most have two, a thumb safety and a grip safety.  This type of gun has a light trigger pull, but requires more practice because you have more to think about and do.  Some people carry them with an empty chamber.  Some people carry them with a round in the chamber but in an uncocked position.  Both methods require you to either rack a round into the chamber, or physically cock the hammer.  Experienced people carry them cocked and locked. (round in the chamber, hammer cocked, safety on.  A double action semi auto does not really need a safety.  Not even the little wiggly thing that are on some triggers.  The trigger must be pulled far enough to do two things, cock the hammer, and after being moved a little farther to the rear, release the hammer.  It is a long movement of the trigger which by itself eliminates a chance of error, unless the person is totally stupid or ignorant of guns. It is no different than your average double action revolver, and If any double action revolvers have a safety I am unaware of it.  Proper gun safety is to never put your finger on the trigger until you intend to squeeze it.


More great comments Dave.  There is no safer gun (IMHO) that a single action revolver with the hammer down on an empty chamber .... but not a very popular pistol to carry.  I have a Ruger collection as well as other single action revolvers and love shooting them, but would not want to carry one on a routine basis.  Not nearly as efficient obviously getting off more than one shot quickly.

Oct 27, 2021 - 12:50:12 PM
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ChunoTheDog

Canada

1133 posts since 8/9/2019

quote:
Originally posted by dat
 

Price, the S&W is probably about $100 less , which the extra would be money well spent in my opinion 


I agree, an extra $100 on a device that you may one day need to trust your life with, is money well spent.

Oct 27, 2021 - 1:17:20 PM
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890 posts since 3/1/2005

LOVE the S&W 9mm. I chose the 9mm because ballistics on them have come a long way and the barrel hardly lifts on it at all. The 40s and 45s are fun, but in a self-defense situation they flip up a little more than I like.

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