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Oct 20, 2021 - 8:03:42 AM
5 posts since 3/10/2021

I have heard the amazing C7 rolls played at the 5th and 8th fret several times. The only song that I can name for sure is Shucking the Corn though and there are no tabs or lessons that teach this lick.

Can someone help me with the rolls over that C7 chord at the 5th and 8th fret and give me some songs that use it so I can practice and play it.

This is such an amazing lick I would think there would be tabs and videos of it everywhere. I haven't found anything to help me yet so far.

Thanks
Brandon

Oct 20, 2021 - 8:40:38 AM
Players Union Member

Eric A

USA

1339 posts since 10/15/2019

Didn't Earl do that on Roll In My Sweet Baby's Arms?

Oct 20, 2021 - 8:53:47 AM
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chuckv97

Canada

60400 posts since 10/5/2013

Oct 20, 2021 - 8:57:05 AM
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432 posts since 5/30/2016

Yes, Earl Scruggs does it in the banjo break to rolling in my sweet baby’s arms. He also uses it in Bugle call rag.

Oct 20, 2021 - 9:12:18 AM
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brj5144

USA

5 posts since 3/10/2021

Thank Y'all so much.

I haven't found anything on Roll in my Sweet Baby's Arms yet but that's ok. With Chuck's tab and the tab I found on Bugle Call Rag located here adamscountybanjo.com/2012-11-t...l-rag.pdf

I now have something to practice.

Edited by - brj5144 on 10/20/2021 09:16:41

Oct 20, 2021 - 9:44:49 AM
Players Union Member

Eric A

USA

1339 posts since 10/15/2019

Just for a fun reference, here's Earl at an advanced age still burning it down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZUBcYYT7Q
 

Oct 20, 2021 - 11:03:51 AM

AGACNP

USA

209 posts since 10/12/2011

If you are speaking of the classic C7 lick of Earls, he used it a lot in the studio version of Bugle Call Rag from the Foggy Mtn Banio album (oops, I see you/Chuck already mention it).

I hear that lick starting with a reverse roll, beginning with the middle finger.

But my wife says I've been wrong before...

Edited by - AGACNP on 10/20/2021 11:07:30

Oct 20, 2021 - 11:22:31 AM

brj5144

USA

5 posts since 3/10/2021

I'm talking about rolls like Richie Dodson Plays in this video. Skip to 9:28 seconds in this video to hear him play.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZRzhAxbzuu8

I watched the whole thing thinking he might show some rolls but he didn't. He sure tears it up at the end of the video though.

So then I came on here and you guys sure helped out.

Oct 20, 2021 - 12:30:31 PM
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AGACNP

USA

209 posts since 10/12/2011

quote:
Originally posted by brj5144

I'm talking about rolls like Richie Dodson Plays in this video. Skip to 9:28 seconds in this video to hear him play.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZRzhAxbzuu8

I watched the whole thing thinking he might show some rolls but he didn't. He sure tears it up at the end of the video though.

So then I came on here and you guys sure helped out.


The way I play it: middle finger first string, index on second, thumb playing the fifth.

Two backward rolls, starting with middle finger. Then followed by 2nd, middle, thumb.

End with two backward rolls, starting with middle finger, 1st string.

All eighth notes (2/4 time), or sixteenths (4/4 time). All the same time value.

If that's not helpful (or 'incorrect'), hopefully others can chime in with better advice.

Edited by - AGACNP on 10/20/2021 12:34:28

Oct 20, 2021 - 12:57:01 PM

AGACNP

USA

209 posts since 10/12/2011

quote:
Originally posted by AGACNP
quote:
Originally posted by brj5144

I'm talking about rolls like Richie Dodson Plays in this video. Skip to 9:28 seconds in this video to hear him play.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZRzhAxbzuu8

I watched the whole thing thinking he might show some rolls but he didn't. He sure tears it up at the end of the video though.

So then I came on here and you guys sure helped out.


That lick is used in lots of places and sounds great (thanks Earl)! Jim Mills uses it in his studio version of Theme Time at about 1:00:
https://youtu.be/wbMYfsMr_QM

The way I play it: middle finger first string, index on second, thumb playing the fifth.

Two backward rolls, starting with middle finger. Then followed by 2nd, middle, thumb.

End with two backward rolls, starting with middle finger, 1st string.

All eighth notes (2/4 time), or sixteenths (4/4 time). All the same time value.

If that's not helpful (or 'incorrect'), hopefully others can chime in with better advice.


Oct 20, 2021 - 1:16:19 PM
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12417 posts since 6/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by brj5144

I have heard the amazing C7 rolls played at the 5th and 8th fret several times. The only song that I can name for sure is Shucking the Corn though and there are no tabs or lessons that teach this lick.

Can someone help me with the rolls over that C7 chord at the 5th and 8th fret and give me some songs that use it so I can practice and play it.


It's in Earl Scruggs and The Five String Banjo and most likely also in this year's Earl Scruggs Banjo Songbook.

I believe Earl Played it different ways, but the most syncopated and interesting one is probably what Bruce described, with lots of backward roll.

I tend to play it the way Chas tabbed it out. It's the easiest for me when I'm going fast. Or too fast. I also sometimes do Foggy Mountain Breakdown roll for part of it.

Since it's just three notes: G - E - B-flat at 5 open, 2@5 and 1@8, experiment. Whatever you play that correctly fills the time will be right and sound good. Sure, it's worth learning the way Earl played it one time on one recording. But you're free to play it your way, too. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Oct 20, 2021 - 1:24:59 PM

AGACNP

USA

209 posts since 10/12/2011

quote:
Originally posted by AGACNP
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickory
quote:
Originally posted by brj5144

I have heard the amazing C7 rolls played at the 5th and 8th fret several times. The only song that I can name for sure is Shucking the Corn though and there are no tabs or lessons that teach this lick.

Can someone help me with the rolls over that C7 chord at the 5th and 8th fret and give me some songs that use it so I can practice and play it.


It's in Earl Scruggs and The Five String Banjo and most likely also in this year's Earl Scruggs Banjo Songbook.

I believe Earl Played it different ways, but the most syncopated and interesting one is probably what Bruce described, with lots of backward roll.

I tend to play it the way Chas tabbed it out. It's the easiest for me when I'm going fast. Or too fast. I also sometimes do Foggy Mountain Breakdown roll for part of it.

Since it's just three notes: G - E - B-flat at 5 open, 2@5 and 1@8, experiment. Whatever you play that correctly fills the time will be right and sound good. Sure, it's worth learning the way Earl played it one time on one recording. But you're free to play it your way, too. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.


Was hoping you'd weigh in Ken. I learned that lick about 40 years ago, slowing down the 33 rpm to 16 1/2. It took me a couple years to get it up to a decent speed, and some days I still have trouble landing it 'that' way.

I completely agree with you, experiment with and try to play it your own way!


Oct 20, 2021 - 1:25:58 PM

AGACNP

USA

209 posts since 10/12/2011

sad Dadgumed double posts!!!

Oct 20, 2021 - 1:35:07 PM
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12417 posts since 6/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by AGACNP

sad Dadgumed double posts!!!


You can delete one within 15 minutes!

Oct 20, 2021 - 1:38:13 PM
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AGACNP

USA

209 posts since 10/12/2011

quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickory
quote:
Originally posted by AGACNP

sad Dadgumed double posts!!!


You can delete one within 15 minutes!


NOW you tell me! :)

I never noticed that trash can before! Too late for the earlier ones, but was able to remove the latest double...

Oct 20, 2021 - 1:52:44 PM
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12417 posts since 6/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by AGACNP
Was hoping you'd weigh in Ken. I learned that lick about 40 years ago, slowing down the 33 rpm to 16 1/2. It took me a couple years to get it up to a decent speed, and some days I still have trouble landing it 'that' way. I completely agree with you, play it your own way!

Wow!  I'm flattered. Thanks for saying that.

To tell the truth, I think the only version of this lick I ever "learned" was 49 years ago when I slowed down and tabbed out Doug Dillard playing Hickory Hollow on Back Porch Bluegrass.

I just checked a BNL tab. Doug starts with double pinch of the 5-8 pair. Two quarter notes. Followed by 5-2-1-5. Then Foggy Mountain Breakdown roll ending on 3: 2-1-2-1-5-2-1-3.   

So that's how I first played it. I never specifically worked out Earl's way and neither of my teachers taught anything using it. I'm sure that what I play has evolved over time because I believe I also play it as Chas tabbed, with the forward-backward roll. Going in, I never know how it's going to come out.

Note: Hickory Hollow is in C: G tuning capoed 5.

Edited by - Old Hickory on 10/20/2021 13:53:23

Oct 20, 2021 - 1:57:32 PM

3658 posts since 9/12/2016

once you get that down there is a lot that can be done barring the fifth fret there .for example these well known eighth notes c-e-g-a-bflat -a -g-e--on-this string sequence 3-2-1-1-1-1-1-2--the first string notes are a "walk up" from the fifth fret to the 8th and back. very much used in boogie woogie/ early rock

Oct 20, 2021 - 2:00:50 PM

chuckv97

Canada

60400 posts since 10/5/2013

Speaking of Doug Dillard (thnx Ken) , at the 0:26 mark
youtu.be/uhUnyAu-LQI

Oct 20, 2021 - 2:08:30 PM
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3945 posts since 3/28/2008

quote:
Originally posted by AGACNP
quote:
Originally posted by brj5144

I'm talking about rolls like Richie Dodson Plays in this video. Skip to 9:28 seconds in this video to hear him play.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZRzhAxbzuu8

I watched the whole thing thinking he might show some rolls but he didn't. He sure tears it up at the end of the video though.

So then I came on here and you guys sure helped out.


The way I play it: middle finger first string, index on second, thumb playing the fifth.

Two backward rolls, starting with middle finger. Then followed by 2nd, middle, thumb.

End with two backward rolls, starting with middle finger, 1st string.

All eighth notes (2/4 time), or sixteenths (4/4 time). All the same time value.

If that's not helpful (or 'incorrect'), hopefully others can chime in with better advice.


That's it. The last backward roll can end on the 3rd string, fretted (with your LH ring finger) at the 7th fret. Then slide off of that note. It's  a cool sound.

But although you'll want to start it by rolling backward, every time your thumb picks the 5th string, you have a choice:  you can keep going in the same direction or you can switch to the other direction, with full confidence that your hand will end up doing what it needs to do at the end of the lick. That gives you 16 subtle variations!

Oct 20, 2021 - 2:15:11 PM
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AGACNP

USA

209 posts since 10/12/2011

Ken,

You are always extremely patient and helpful to others on here. I usually learn from or have something reinforced with your posts.

Tom said “ once you get that down there is a lot that can be done…”

Yes, slide toward the head one fret with both (6th and 9th), and you’ve got a G7!

Learning to execute reverse rolls opened up lots of Scruggs stuff to me: the opening phrase of Groundspeed, lots of Earls arrangement of Home Sweet Hone, and so on.

Edited by - AGACNP on 10/20/2021 14:15:45

Oct 20, 2021 - 5:17:26 PM
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1253 posts since 1/25/2017

One of the more instructive things that a developing musician can gain from the position is the realization that the root note (C) can be unnecessary when using a partial chord position. Shifting the left hand to 11-14 achieves another inversion of the same partial.

Oct 20, 2021 - 7:13:31 PM
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12417 posts since 6/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by AGACNP

You are always extremely patient and helpful to others on here. I usually learn from or have something reinforced with your posts.


Again, you are too kind.

I did used to get in occasional arguments, especially in the recurring "tab will rot your brain and stunt your growth" discussions. I do that much less frequently these days.

And while I do try to focus more on being helpful or encouraging, others in this current discussion who could share how Earl played the lick were more helpful than I was.

Oct 20, 2021 - 7:33:31 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

60400 posts since 10/5/2013

One thing not mentioned, I don’t think, is the emphasis one must place on certain notes in that 5-8 passage to give it bounce (uhoh) or “lilt”, if you will. Actually, just like most other of Earl’s phrases.

Oct 22, 2021 - 4:19 AM

USAF PJ

USA

274 posts since 9/19/2014

Hello, FWIW, Eli Gilbert's video of "Roll in my SBA" has the C7 played slowly and w/ tab. It is helpful.

youtube.com/watch?v=zlA781WFr1Y

 

Edited by - USAF PJ on 10/22/2021 04:19:20

Oct 22, 2021 - 5:25:50 AM
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brj5144

USA

5 posts since 3/10/2021

Thank you Alex. I can't wait to learn that entire version of Roll in my Sweet Baby's Arms.

And thanks to everyone you have been tremendous help.

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