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Oct 18, 2021 - 11:25:35 AM
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11685 posts since 2/22/2007

Saturday I watched the Tennessee Vols play the Old Miss whatevertheyarenow (rebels? bears? rebel bears?) and there were 18 injury delays, 11 of which came in the forth quarter. Most were not injuries, they were forced timeouts designed to slow down the pace whenever their opponent was getting their rhythm going on offense. The most blatant was when a player was running to the sideline and a coach gave him a signal and he dropped to the turf holding his leg.
It was maddening to sit and wait, over and over, and disgraceful to watch.

We need a rule change! Any injury requiring a timeout either costs the team one timeout OR the injured player is out of the game until the next change of possession. No more rolling on the ground in "agony" then sprinting right back in on the next play!

Oct 18, 2021 - 2:42:19 PM
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Players Union Member

rinemb

USA

14101 posts since 5/24/2005

I agree. Flopping not good for the game or the fans. If it can’t be controlled by penalties, how about any player that flops, is out until possession changes. Or upon a teams third injury timeout, a penalty is imposed no matter what. Didn’t they fix flopping in basketball? Brad

Oct 18, 2021 - 2:48:04 PM
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Players Union Member

rinemb

USA

14101 posts since 5/24/2005

As one who was really flopping on the field with a serious injury, I remember in college feeling ashamed to be carted off the field, missing several games. I would tell a coach who asks me to flop to go F himself. Then if he tried to punish me I would use the power of social media to burn him. Brad

Oct 18, 2021 - 2:56:17 PM
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12658 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

Saturday I watched the Tennessee Vols play the Old Miss whatevertheyarenow (rebels? bears? rebel bears?) and there were 18 injury delays, 11 of which came in the forth quarter. Most were not injuries, they were forced timeouts designed to slow down the pace whenever their opponent was getting their rhythm going on offense. The most blatant was when a player was running to the sideline and a coach gave him a signal and he dropped to the turf holding his leg.
It was maddening to sit and wait, over and over, and disgraceful to watch.

We need a rule change! Any injury requiring a timeout either costs the team one timeout OR the injured player is out of the game until the next change of possession. No more rolling on the ground in "agony" then sprinting right back in on the next play!


Totally agree Bill.  The first time I noticed it first hand was when we (Clemson) were playing LSU in the Peach Bowl (around 2013, I think) and running an up-tempo no-huddle offense.  In the 3rd quarter, whenever we got a drive going, all of a sudden one of the LSU players would drop with a leg cramp or other mysterios injury.  After one play on the sideline, they would be back in the game.  I think the player should have to sit out until there is a change of possession before coming back in.

Oct 19, 2021 - 9:07:24 AM
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2860 posts since 2/10/2013

O.K.. I am an old grouch. Here are some complaints about pro football. College football has the right idea. When a player falls down, the play is over. In some cases the defense will not let a player fall down. No more having 2 or 3 players pile on.

Next, when a quarterback pulls the ball down and starts running, quarterback safety rules do not apply. More and more quarterbacks are excellent runners. And refs seem to have different rules for different quarterbacks. Starting with Notre Dame years ago, football was changed until it eventually made teams success dependent on one person - the quarterback.
Coaches want to protect the quarterback. Pro teams want to protect their largest cash investment as well. Do you think a running quarterback is more subject to physical injury than a running back or receiver ? I don't think so. In addition, pro teams seem to prefer taller and bigger quarterbacks.

When I played football, we ran ahead of ball carriers and blocked for them. We could not get behind them and push them or carry them across the goal line.

Have the same interference rules for receivers and defensive backs. All the time I see receivers shove the defensive back away and receive a quick pass.

On some plays, I see "roughing" the quarterback called. Nothing done about the 2 or 3 offensive players holding the defensive players.

When I Canadian Football League games, things happen faster and are more continuous.
They are more enjoyable. Last nights game between Nashville and Buffalo spent way too much time discussing penalties. When I refereed youth basketball, the first instructions I received were -

1. If you see a penalty, call it. Since it was played by little kids we did not call minor infractions.

2. Don't call penalties if you "think" a foul happened. You have to actuall see the infraction.

3. Act like you know what you are doing and respond quickly. Action like this tends to make the spectators think you are right, and doesn't give them time to evaluate the situation.

For over a decade rules have been changed to benefit the offensive. I think it is time to make a few changes benefiting the defense. I am aware of the fact offense provides more amusement for fans, but basketball scores are ridiculous.

Change the draft. Good teams with quality management gradually deteriorate. Poor teams with poor coaching and management sometime receive a decade or more of top draft picks, and suddenly they become a good team.

Finally, if an NFL team is to be sold, the city will have first option to buy the team. Look at Green Bay. I don't think community ownership has hurt that team. And they won't move away to San Antonio or some other city. St. Louis has lost the Cardinals and the Rams. If I owned a bar in St. Louis. I would not televise games by those 2 teams.

One more thing. Years ago when there was a certain amount of class displayed among sports fans, fans were not allowed to interfere with a teams ability to perform. If it does have place, these athletic events should not be referred to as sports. If a person is cheering their team - no problem. But intentionally drowning out the ability of a visiting teams players ability to hear each other is WRONG and has no place in sports. I do hope the way many sports fans behave does NOT represent the values of the general public. BTW, the great and late comedian George Carlin said something to this effect. George said actions by elected officials served to mirror the values of the punlic,

Pete Rose was asked which town he enjoyed playing in most. His reply was St. Louis. When askecd why, Pete said the fans came to admire good athletic performance, and cheered it was performed by home team and the visitor.

Kids development is affected by adult behavior. If adults want kids to display appropriate types of sportmanship and courtesies, the adults should start improving the way their behavior. Maybe adults should not be allowed at young people's sporting events. Kids develope the same attitudes as adults they associate with. Kids seem to naturally get along well, but adults can contaminate the youths relationships.

Oct 19, 2021 - 9:36:55 AM
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58448 posts since 12/14/2005

How about a special, medically trained referee, to determine if an injury is real or faked?
Striped shirt, but a nurse's cap.
Call her the FLOP COP.

Oct 19, 2021 - 9:38:45 AM
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banjo bill-e

Tuvalu

11685 posts since 2/22/2007

Well Richard that was a bit off topic but as one old grouch to another I agree with everything that you said.

The big change that I want to see in ALL professional sports, which would require a federal law, is that they must pay their own way and stop holding citizens hostage to their stadium demands. I really wanted the NFL in Nashville and am very glad that they came but I lost some friends at the time because I was opposed to the sweetheart deal the city was offering the multimillionaire owner, which was requiring the taxpayers to pay for and maintain that stadium for the sole benefit of the owner, who can lease it for concerts and whatever on non-game days and keep the revenue while the taxpayers pay for it all. That should not be allowed anywhere for any type sports team, or for any private business, period.

Oct 19, 2021 - 9:46:22 AM

chuckv97

Canada

60343 posts since 10/5/2013

“The City of Calgary and the Flames ownership will each pay an additional $12.5 million for a new arena, and the city-owned developer behind the Rivers District will no longer oversee the project. The Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporation has agreed to cover any more cost overruns.”
So where do you think they’re building this new $608 million arena,,, near the Bow River on the floodplain. 9 years ago there was a huge “flood of the century” in the the downtown area, also causing 10’ of water in the Saddledome. With CC/GW causing more extreme weathers, who in Hades would build there,,,?

(maybe they should've stayed in Atlanta)




Edited by - chuckv97 on 10/19/2021 09:52:33

Oct 19, 2021 - 10:53:03 AM

RB3

USA

1134 posts since 4/12/2004

In football, I think that any offensive player signaling a first down at the end of a play should be assessed a penalty of five yards and loss of down for unnecessary hubris.

To deal with game delays, I record virtually ever sporting event that I watch on TV. I start watching the recording about an hour after the live event begins. Then, as I watch the recording, I fast forward through commercials and the various game delays. The recording usually runs out at about the same time that the live event ends. It eliminates a lot of non-action content.

Oct 19, 2021 - 11:18:56 AM
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2047 posts since 2/4/2013

Game delays in American Football? Doesn't a one hour game take about four hours anyway?

Over here we have rubgy - if someone gets injured the game goes on unless it's really serious. Football (aka soccer) is really funny. Simulation is an offence but goes on all the time. It's laughable but sums up the game at the higher levels. "Recovery" from injury is usually miraculous.

Oct 19, 2021 - 11:38:23 AM

10556 posts since 8/22/2006

Now that’s a good name for the Washington football team... Floppers

Oct 19, 2021 - 12:11:36 PM

dat

USA

31551 posts since 7/26/2006

I figure if you’re injured enough to cause a clock stop, you should be out of the game to prevent further injury, but yhe coaches would probably get around that by putting in designated floppers that they can play without

Oct 19, 2021 - 12:52:20 PM

12658 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

Well Richard that was a bit off topic but as one old grouch to another I agree with everything that you said.

The big change that I want to see in ALL professional sports, which would require a federal law, is that they must pay their own way and stop holding citizens hostage to their stadium demands. I really wanted the NFL in Nashville and am very glad that they came but I lost some friends at the time because I was opposed to the sweetheart deal the city was offering the multimillionaire owner, which was requiring the taxpayers to pay for and maintain that stadium for the sole benefit of the owner, who can lease it for concerts and whatever on non-game days and keep the revenue while the taxpayers pay for it all. That should not be allowed anywhere for any type sports team, or for any private business, period.


Bill, I agree with you mostly, but there are many arrangements between owners and teams that are not exclusively structured to nail the taxpayers.  You also have to keep in mind that the stadiums provide a lot of revenue for the cities, but more importantly employ a lot of people and put money into the hands of local business establishments.  One of my friends/clients owns the minor league baseball team in a major mid-western city.  He teamed with the local state university that is located in the city and the city government, to build a stadium for his baseball team.  The university uses the stadium for their baseball games, then his team uses it during the late spring and summer for their season, and the city has use of it for a specific number of events .... concerts, etc.  Basically each own a third.  It has worked out very well.

Oct 19, 2021 - 1:00 PM
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12658 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

Saturday I watched the Tennessee Vols play the Old Miss whatevertheyarenow (rebels? bears? rebel bears?) and there were 18 injury delays, 11 of which came in the forth quarter. Most were not injuries, they were forced timeouts designed to slow down the pace whenever their opponent was getting their rhythm going on offense. The most blatant was when a player was running to the sideline and a coach gave him a signal and he dropped to the turf holding his leg.
It was maddening to sit and wait, over and over, and disgraceful to watch.

We need a rule change! Any injury requiring a timeout either costs the team one timeout OR the injured player is out of the game until the next change of possession. No more rolling on the ground in "agony" then sprinting right back in on the next play!


 ........ Bill, not to mention the awful lack of sportsmanship shown by the Tennessee fans after the review clearly showed (in my opinion (and the refs)) that the runner had failed to reach the first down marker.  While Lane KIffin was talking to the refs, and I think maybe a policeman, a golf ball landed at his feet.  While I can't rule out that Wayne Clyburn had hit an errant shot while playing in a neighboring state, I think it was thrown from the stands, probably aimed at Kiffin who is not dearly loved by Tennessee fans.  I think it must have taken 15 minutes to an hour to resume the last 53 seconds of play due to the disruption.  Good ole Rocky Topwink

Oct 19, 2021 - 1:33:59 PM
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banjo bill-e

Tuvalu

11685 posts since 2/22/2007

John, if NO city would pay for a stadium, then we would still have plenty of sports teams and stadiums. They would just be paid for by the VERY wealthy owners of the sports teams. The economic benefits go to a few while the expense is paid by the many. Many studies show that these sweetheart stadium deals are a net loss for the cities who fall for them, and the gains go to the few while the cost is shared by all.

Here is one example  Braves new stadium is a disaster

and another   Nashville's gift to billionaires

Many more but you get the idea. 

Oct 19, 2021 - 2:24:02 PM

58448 posts since 12/14/2005

quote:
Originally posted by mike gregory

How about a special, medically trained referee, to determine if an injury is real or faked?
Striped shirt, but a nurse's cap.
Call her the FLOP COP.



Oct 19, 2021 - 2:41:59 PM
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kww

USA

1402 posts since 6/21/2008

quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

Well Richard that was a bit off topic but as one old grouch to another I agree with everything that you said.

The big change that I want to see in ALL professional sports, which would require a federal law, is that they must pay their own way and stop holding citizens hostage to their stadium demands. I really wanted the NFL in Nashville and am very glad that they came but I lost some friends at the time because I was opposed to the sweetheart deal the city was offering the multimillionaire owner, which was requiring the taxpayers to pay for and maintain that stadium for the sole benefit of the owner, who can lease it for concerts and whatever on non-game days and keep the revenue while the taxpayers pay for it all. That should not be allowed anywhere for any type sports team, or for any private business, period.


One of those extremely rare intersections where we agree, and it has to be illegal at a federal level. So long as one city is able to bribe businesses into relocating, all cities have to play the game or be at a disadvantage.

Oct 19, 2021 - 3:16:21 PM
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banjo bill-e

Tuvalu

11685 posts since 2/22/2007

--"One of those extremely rare intersections where we agree--"

We also agreed about Colin Powell. We should be more careful, can't let that become a trend.

Oct 19, 2021 - 3:23:46 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

60343 posts since 10/5/2013

I can see it now ; Kevin visiting Bill,, they rent a tandem bicycle and pedal all over the city….

Oct 19, 2021 - 3:40:17 PM
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Owen

Canada

9788 posts since 6/5/2011

.. flop[ping]?? 

Let me say this about that:

 Cow Pasture Football (1955): An excerpt | Author-Direct Books

Oct 20, 2021 - 12:01:59 AM
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Paul R

Canada

15131 posts since 1/28/2010

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Hauser


When I [watch] Canadian Football League games, things happen faster and are more continuous.
They are more enjoyable. 


Perhaps one of the benefits of "small market" franchises. CFL teams do not have the revenue of NFL franchises. Too bad, because I think it's a better game (not the players or the money or the size of the stadiums) - longer, wider field, backfield in  motion, three downs, fewer time outs. The small size of the American field and the small end zones.used to look kinda weird. Yet cities like Toronto (fourth largest city north of Mexico), fueled by the media, are obsessed with the possibility of having an NFL franchise.

The blackmail of, "If you don't pay, we'll leave." is ubiquitous. We built an arena here for our junior hockey team. We paid. The place loses money. We pay. One of the defining moments was the then-mayor brandishing a letter from the then-federal government saying that they might contribute some funds. They never did.

Toronto bullt the Skydump (opened in '89) with $600m of mostly public funds. It was sold to Rogers for $25mil.

Edited by - Paul R on 10/20/2021 00:03:03

Oct 20, 2021 - 8:54:18 AM

kww

USA

1402 posts since 6/21/2008

quote:
Originally posted by Paul R

The blackmail of, "If you don't pay, we'll leave." is ubiquitous. We built an arena here for our junior hockey team. We paid. The place loses money. We pay. One of the defining moments was the then-mayor brandishing a letter from the then-federal government saying that they might contribute some funds. They never did.

Toronto bullt the Skydump (opened in '89) with $600m of mostly public funds. It was sold to Rogers for $25mil.


The mayor of Glendale, AZ hates hosting the Super Bowl, and yells whenever it happens. Scottsdale gets the hotel revenue, Phoenix gets the transportation revenue, the reservations get the gambling revenue, and Glendale gets to pay the security and waste clean-up costs.

 

... and no one outside Arizona even realises Glendale is the host.

Edited by - kww on 10/20/2021 08:54:59

Oct 20, 2021 - 9:20:25 AM

2860 posts since 2/10/2013

Kevin,

Tell the city to ask another large country to donate. That sometime works. In the U.S., a rural bridge washed out. Governmental agencies refused to help. So the small town ask the Soviet Union for help. The Soviet Union said they would. Shortly thereafter the U.S. Corp of Engineers rushed into town and buit a new bridge.

Oct 20, 2021 - 9:51:14 AM

12658 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

John, if NO city would pay for a stadium, then we would still have plenty of sports teams and stadiums. They would just be paid for by the VERY wealthy owners of the sports teams. The economic benefits go to a few while the expense is paid by the many. Many studies show that these sweetheart stadium deals are a net loss for the cities who fall for them, and the gains go to the few while the cost is shared by all.

Here is one example  Braves new stadium is a disaster

and another   Nashville's gift to billionaires

Many more but you get the idea. 


Bill .....considering who runs these major cities, are you surprised at the lack of transparency and shenanigans?  Probably not, but they still benefit many more people that the billionaire owners, who I could care less about.  But I would not spite those average citizens who enjoy and benefit from it just to keep someone who doesn't need it from benefiting.

I worked for a while with the architectural team that was designing the new Washington Football Team stadium when Jack Kent Cooke owned the team.  The new structure, estimated at about 300 million was going to be build where the old RFK stadium was located and they were going to have to take about 40 acres of the old Langston Golf Course for parking, so Cooke was going to have to build them a new golf course.  Cooke told us in a meeting that to build the stadium in downtown Washington he was going to have to grease the mayor's palm to the tune of $1,000,000.  So no, I am not surprised at the backroom dealing and downright graft.  It's slimy!

PS:  That article was written in 2017.  Though much of that is true, I don;t think the same article would be written now.  I have been there many times and was surprised at how successful (in my eyes anyway) it has been.  When it was first announced I thought it would be a disaster, particularly due to the location.  

Edited by - BanjoLink on 10/20/2021 09:54:02

Oct 20, 2021 - 10:41:55 AM

kww

USA

1402 posts since 6/21/2008

quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink
 

Bill .....considering who runs these major cities, are you surprised at the lack of transparency and shenanigans?  Probably not, but they still benefit many more people that the billionaire owners, who I could care less about.  But I would not spite those average citizens who enjoy and benefit from it just to keep someone who doesn't need it from benefiting.


You wouldn't be taking anything away from those "average citizens". Sports franchises and stadiums are profitable businesses, and people would still be motivated to build them.

Oct 20, 2021 - 11:23:44 AM

12658 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by kww
quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink
 

Bill .....considering who runs these major cities, are you surprised at the lack of transparency and shenanigans?  Probably not, but they still benefit many more people that the billionaire owners, who I could care less about.  But I would not spite those average citizens who enjoy and benefit from it just to keep someone who doesn't need it from benefiting.


You wouldn't be taking anything away from those "average citizens". Sports franchises and stadiums are profitable businesses, and people would still be motivated to build them.


That's true Kevin, but these sports franchises are run by businessmen and they didn't make their money (most anyway) because they are bad at business.  If they can entice someone else to help finance their stadiums they are going to do it.  But you can't blame it all on them.  Quite a few cities have enticed sports franchises to come to their city by offering very attractive incentive packages.  One of the first was the City of Los Angeles who lured the Dodgers there in the late 1950's from New York.

Funny story .... I called one of my friends one day, who had been a real estate salesman in Florida.  The first words out of his mouth were "guess what I am doing now".  I said "I have no idea Bill".  He then said "I am president of the Cleveland Browns".  I said "great Bill, but haven't they just moved to Baltimore".  He said "yes, but we are doing everything a football team does except play football" .... to which I said "Isn't that important".  According to him it was not.  Basically, what I later found out he was doing was keeping the name alive until they were able to get another team in Cleveland.  I think he later told me that he went to 120 barbecues, political rallies, other sporting events, all promoting the Browns football team.  When they actually got a team and started playing football I think they thought that a Florida real estate salesman was no longer needed.

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