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Sep 18, 2021 - 12:41:50 PM
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4739 posts since 5/9/2007

About two dozen rapid-fire ads from the Retailer just this morning.

BOOOOOO! ( )o( ) move.

I feel for the Mere Member trying to get their item seen by anyone before it's Blasted into oblivion.

: >/

Edited by - mrphysics55 on 09/18/2021 12:49:16

Sep 18, 2021 - 1:20:08 PM
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72 posts since 5/8/2021

Another batch of insanely overpriced Japanese banjos and parts banjos masquerading as prewar Gibsons.

Sep 18, 2021 - 1:24:41 PM
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115 posts since 4/9/2019

just putting in my 2 cents.... I have no problem with BanjoWareHouse listing here, at least we get first dibs on anything new. Plus, those guys spend a great deal of time finding, setting up their banjos, as well as giving advice to many of us! They deserve to have a place to showcase their wares.

Edited by - DocSavino on 09/18/2021 13:25:03

Sep 18, 2021 - 1:29:53 PM

4739 posts since 5/9/2007

Dang! I forgot a "k". : >(

OCD is a brutal task-master.

Edited by - mrphysics55 on 09/18/2021 13:30:45

Sep 18, 2021 - 1:33:50 PM
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4739 posts since 5/9/2007

BjoWarHouse ... Get a Link!

Sep 18, 2021 - 3:18:37 PM

4739 posts since 5/9/2007

On occasion I consider listing about 50 or 60 hooks and nuts … one at a time. : >D
This would push all of these retail ads down and out of sight.
What stops me is it would only exacerbate the problem that the retailer's behavior creates for other members.
But, boy oh boy, would I love to do it.
Think I line up an Arsenal of ads just to be on the ready .... you just never know.

Sep 18, 2021 - 3:31:48 PM
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Bill Rogers (Moderator)

USA

25206 posts since 6/25/2005

One solution would be to limit new listings to one or two per day. Or have a cache that rotates all recent listings, dropping them after 48 hours. I know programmers can create such things, but whether it's worth the effort is another question..

Sep 18, 2021 - 3:39:21 PM

4739 posts since 5/9/2007

Thank you for that measured response Mr. Rogers.

Sep 18, 2021 - 4:25:27 PM
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Players Union Member

dbrooks

USA

4120 posts since 3/11/2004

Bill Rogers , I too thank you for the measured response that sought a solution.

David

Sep 18, 2021 - 8:35:20 PM
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72 posts since 5/8/2021

I looked over their classifieds, and they have a Kasuga made banjo for $900! I paid $400 for the same banjo labeled as a "Univox" and even that was too much. At this point, it's nothing but a scam. They're taking advantage of people starting out who don't know any better.

I know people like to say that he is open to offers, but do you really think he's going to take less than half of his asking price? Give me a break.

I'm not bashing Kasuga banjos at all. I think they are fantastic beginner instruments, but that price is just laughable.

Sep 19, 2021 - 10:00:30 AM

101 posts since 2/7/2020

No one should pay more than $300 for any these type banjos. Fortunately BW sells RK-35/36s which are a good value.

Sep 19, 2021 - 11:56:42 AM

Bill H

USA

1725 posts since 11/7/2010

What I know about Banjo Warehouse is that I bought a Midnight Phantom from them at a good price and had great service. Ad placement is based on cookies and browsing history usually and has little to do with the action of the advertiser.

Sep 19, 2021 - 2:34:12 PM
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4739 posts since 5/9/2007

As my wife often says "Hindsight is 50 - 50".  : >)

I realize I should not have aired my frustrations publicly. My initial tone was unskillful. I wish to apologize for that. Had I avoided the attitude of righteous indignation it may have been more possible to begin to find some middle ground between the Retailer's interests and the interests of private Members wishing to post the occasional item in the Classifieds.

This subject has been raised several times in the past and I believe deserves further consideration.

I had not intended to respond to individual posts when I began this thread. But I wish to do so now for the sake of clarity.

I would like to say upfront that I appreciate everyone's input and desire to participate in community. I don't intend to address anyone's statements for the purpose of being argumentative. I can't walk-back my previous posts. So I hope to be granted a mulligan, or two or three. 


Bill H ... 

- The issue here doesn't relate to Commercial Advertisements found on the site. What is being referred to are ads placed by Members in the Classified Ad Forum. This has nothing to do with cookies and browsing history but rather, they are placed at the Top of the List/Page One as they come in. The Top of the List/Page One is the most effective position for one's ad to occupy in terms of visibility.  After Page One is fully occupied with more current ads, like all Forum Posts, prior ads begin being pushed off the bottom of Page One and can only be visualize by members who intentionally press the "More" link to view subsequent, thus less "visible", Classified Ads  This process usually evolves at a modest pace giving a Member's item it's own time in the lime-light. However when any Member posts multiple ads it accelerates the process. Worse still, when a Member's practice is to list many ten's of ads at once it immediacy pushes other members ads (even those listed immediately before these multiple listings) off of Page One thus eliminating their chance of significant Page One visibility. I posit that this poses a significant disadvantage for selling/trading/want to buy ads of Members who hope for a reasonable amount of Page One visibility.


In all fairness, the practice of the Retailer is most likely due to a pursuit of ad listing efficiency and not some desire to game the system thus attempting to gain an unfair advantage in the use of the Classified Forum. Dr Mr. Retailer, If the desire for efficiency is your motivation then I humbly extend my apologies for assuming otherwise.


Other Members who are addressing the Retailer's pricing scheme seem to possess knowledge of the worth of the offered instruments but I'm in no position to comment on such things as I do not follow the pricing, etc. of bluegrass instruments.


In closing; I hope that we can, together, pursue workable solutions to produce a more equitable Classifieds process for all participating parties. 

Respectfully,

Eddie

Sep 20, 2021 - 6:17:10 AM

4739 posts since 5/9/2007

Bill Rogers

Thanks for your PM and the suggestion to "Contact Eric". 

Maybe  Eric Schlange has some insight or suggestions he can throw our way.

Eddie

Sep 20, 2021 - 7:36:02 AM
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mirwin

USA

223 posts since 2/4/2011

There have been several threads in the recent past which have talked about this retailers' practice of "updating" their ads while not changing the content simply as a means to push their large block of ads (as many as 20 at a time) to the top of the page. Their response was that they have paid a large amount of money for the "bold" ads and are playing the game fairly. Eric apparently agrees since nothing has ever been done to stop them. Do you really expect him to do something that would limit his income?

My response is to ignore their ads and never do business with them. There's no reason to get upset over something I have no control over. We must each make our own choices but complaining about their tactics is a waste of time and only provides them with more visibility.

Mike

Sep 20, 2021 - 7:54:59 AM

1299 posts since 9/6/2019

I don't really have a dog in the fight, but I will say that I am getting a brand new Stelling for the same money as this seller's best offer on one that was 14 years old.

Sep 20, 2021 - 8:54:56 AM
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4739 posts since 5/9/2007

mirwin

My concern doesn't lie with this Retailer's ads per se. The issue t me is the Reduced Visibility of Hobbyist's Members ads caused by the Retailers practice of dumping so many ads at one time. I, personally, don't begrudge the Retailer's playing within the BHO Rules in an effort to support his business. However I'm do hope that we can discover a way to modify the rules to suit all concerned and in a fashion that does no harm.

Bill Rogers  has made suggestions that should be considered.

Perhaps the Classifieds Section could be restructured to accommodate Retailers and Hobbyists in a fashion that doesn't diminish the efforts of either. Perhaps this could take the form of Tabs linking Members, perusing the classifieds, to Retailer's or alternatively to Hobbyists' ads. 

Retailer's Could have their Big Bold Campaign directed to their target audience.

Eric could have his income.

Small Hobby Members could have a chance of their ads being visible for a reasonable amount of time.

I suggest that this should pose no significant competition to the Retailer and no obvious detriment to Eric's Income. I know I would welcome the improved experience as a Hobbyist buyer and seller.

I also consider this a matter of Fairness. After all buying and selling by the Hobbyist Members may put a little gas in Eric's tank our snag him the occasional Cappuccino.

I don't have any expectation that Eric Schlange will chime in but tagging him may at least let him know what is on the mind of some of the BHO Members.

Edited by - mrphysics55 on 09/20/2021 08:55:15

Sep 20, 2021 - 9:03:37 AM
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1299 posts since 9/6/2019

quote:
Originally posted by mrphysics55

mirwin

My concern doesn't lie with this Retailer's ads per se. The issue t me is the Reduced Visibility of Hobbyist's Members ads caused by the Retailers practice of dumping so many ads at one time. I, personally, don't begrudge the Retailer's playing within the BHO Rules in an effort to support his business. However I'm do hope that we can discover a way to modify the rules to suit all concerned and in a fashion that does no harm.

Bill Rogers  has made suggestions that should be considered.

Perhaps the Classifieds Section could be restructured to accommodate Retailers and Hobbyists in a fashion that doesn't diminish the efforts of either. Perhaps this could take the form of Tabs linking Members, perusing the classifieds, to Retailer's or alternatively to Hobbyists' ads. 

Retailer's Could have their Big Bold Campaign directed to their target audience.

Eric could have his income.

Small Hobby Members could have a chance of their ads being visible for a reasonable amount of time.

I suggest that this should pose no significant competition to the Retailer and no obvious detriment to Eric's Income. I know I would welcome the improved experience as a Hobbyist buyer and seller.

I also consider this a matter of Fairness. After all buying and selling by the Hobbyist Members may put a little gas in Eric's tank our snag him the occasional Cappuccino.

I don't have any expectation that Eric Schlange will chime in but tagging him may at least let him know what is on the mind of some of the BHO Members.


I think linking to retailer pages is a great idea. They can have their entire stock listed on their personal pages and the hobbyist sellers will have their items visible on the main classified page.

Sep 20, 2021 - 9:21:53 AM
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4739 posts since 5/9/2007

Great idea Banjonewguy

Edited by - mrphysics55 on 09/20/2021 09:33:59

Sep 20, 2021 - 9:30:02 AM

4739 posts since 5/9/2007

Any others who wish to find a way to make this work?

Sep 20, 2021 - 10:59:10 AM
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mirwin

USA

223 posts since 2/4/2011

mrphysics55
I personally hope that you can find a way to make this work but you should know that these kinds of solutions have been proposed before and Eric has been silent on all. It appears that he is happy the way that things are. But good luck to you.

Mike

Sep 20, 2021 - 11:27:02 AM
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YellowSkyBlueSun

Virgin Islands (U.S.)

416 posts since 5/11/2021

The fact of the matter is that BHO is a business, and the purpose of a business is to generate revenue. Banjowarehouse probably generates more revenue than any other individual account.

Complains from non-revenue sources don't mean anything. Always remember that if an internet service or website is free, you are the product rather than the customer.  

Edited by - YellowSkyBlueSun on 09/20/2021 11:28:40

Sep 20, 2021 - 11:28:05 AM

4739 posts since 5/9/2007

Tilting at Windmills?  ...  Most likely mirwin 

Thank you for the words of encouragement. 


I got a PM from the Retailer. The message read ...

"You are really committed to this 

Please keep this up, I’m impressed with your tenacity 

A"


My response ...

"I appreciate your kind words.
Semi-retired, old folks got time on their hands.

Yours in the 'HAM
MrP


I hope to rekindle a friendlier dialog with the Retailer. Maybe I should make the trip to Atlanta, look him in the eye and shake his hand.

I can always hope to enlist his help. Maybe together we can lobby  Eric Schlange  in finding a real solution. 

Who knows. YellowSkyBlueSun ?   Maybe it'll be good for "business".  yes

Edited by - mrphysics55 on 09/20/2021 11:41:58

Sep 20, 2021 - 4:06:08 PM
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1835 posts since 4/10/2005

It's very kind of the Moderator(s) to be so caring about input, but I fail to see any big problem. Given how plain and clear it is that the BH Classifieds are chronological from most recent to earlier, I've never had a problem scrolling down through the newest stuff to be sure I've seen all the new stuff for a given day, or however many days it's been since my last eyeball. The pages succeed one another super-quickly anyhow, and the newest stuff at the top quickly moves down. 

 

I've never purchased anything just because it was up at the top, I have enough wit to scroll through the whole most recent date or dates.  Not getting the big deprivation here.

Edited by - ceemonster on 09/20/2021 16:07:13

Sep 20, 2021 - 4:24:14 PM
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29 posts since 12/2/2020

retailer section for sale

and individual owners items for sale

------

that's my suggestion a way to filter the two, some people prefer the retailer who setup the instrument, knows how its suppose to sound, versus someone selling a item they inherited and may have a issue they are unaware of. there is a place for each.

also by doing this, eric should be able to monetize the site better by limiting the amount of items retailers can list in the personal for sale section, and a rate for items they list commercially for profit. if you like that idea schlang-dawg hit me up would love to help with the site lol

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