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Do you consider the pandemic to be temporary or permanent?

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Aug 4, 2021 - 3:27:43 PM

banjoy

USA

9850 posts since 7/1/2006

5B-Ranch Your post game me the best belly laugh I've had in a while. Thanks for that! yes

Edited by - banjoy on 08/04/2021 15:28:27

Aug 4, 2021 - 3:32:52 PM
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1572 posts since 1/28/2013

quote:
Originally posted by Banjonewguy

None, just like you never studied under one either, yet you feel free to spout your opinions regarding how the vaccine will save the world and eradicate COVID when it is being proven every day that people can still be infected despite being vaccinated. Actually, if you look back at many of the past pandemics of influenza, no vaccine was responsible for stopping them. But, since you suddenly require full confirmation from medical experts, here are a couple who say the same thing I just did:

medicalxpress.com/news/2021-02...ears.html

statnews.com/2021/05/19/how-th...e-future/

Oddly enough, I haven't seen you ask a single person who agrees with your non-MD medical opinions what doctors they studied under. I wonder why?


Nothing can be done to eradicate a virus. Viruses have existed for thousands of years and will continue to exist, just let it run it's course and everything will be fine. But you will have to turn off your TV and Computer for a month.

Aug 4, 2021 - 3:42:44 PM

6265 posts since 10/13/2007

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rogers

The flu is irrelevant in dealing with Covid-19. We have long since reached a consensus on dealing (or not) with the flu. Covid-19 is a very different illness—far more contagious, far more debilitating when it doesn’t kill you, and, it seems, much faster to mutate. Ethically and morally, you do not have the freedom to decide for yourself how to deal with Covid, because it is all but certain your behavior will affect others one way or another—for two reasons: transmissibility of the disease and the significant number of asymptomatic carriers, who can spread Covid unknowingly. You may be willing to risk contracting Covid-19, but you have no legal or moral right to endanger others. You have an ethical obligation to do all you can to prevent that. Your personal belief that you are doing so even if you go unmasked and unvaccinated doesn’t cut it.


Bill,

I am like you in that I feel if everyone would get vaccinated we could really put this in the rear view mirror Except for the fact that the world needs to be vaccinated or this can mutate and come back on us or any vaccine we have Unless we control traffic into this nation.

I am not like you when you say: "We have long since reached a consensus on dealing"..with covid. There are obviously some people that are not in consensus and who disagree with you and me about the vaccine.When the vaccine was being developed there were some extremely high ranking US government people who said they did not trust the vaccine and would not take it. They were allowed to take this stance. I just don't feel right with me saying or anyone saying that I am or that they are Now the final arbiter of what You have to put in your body. We sure did not say that to the high officials.

Ken

Aug 4, 2021 - 3:49:36 PM
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Players Union Member

DC5

USA

20427 posts since 6/30/2015

quote:
Originally posted by South Jersey Mike
quote:
Originally posted by DC5
quote:
Originally posted by steve davis

As long as enough people can suck it up and get shots we'll be fine.
Nobody wants anyone else to die from Covid do they?


75% of the new Delta cases in Massachusetts are with vaccinated people, not unvaccinated.  Just gettin everyone the shot is not going to be enough, and we will never get everyone to take the shot.


It's like no one had to take a statistics class. If we ignore briefly the fact that literally 99% of all Covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated and just look at that statistics we have to look at them honestly. If 100% of Massachusetts was vaccinated then 100% of all cases would be among the vaccinated. (Sounds like a scary number) With the number of vaccinated people in the community that the 75% number came from (Provincetown), having  a 70% vaccination rate, the statistical chances of getting Covid are much lower even though 75% of the new cases there were among the vaccinated. It scares me that Florida is willing to pull school funding for schools that require masks when our country doesn't even understand how basic denominators work in math.


I understand that.  Mass. has a high portion of the population vaccinated, so of course a high number of vaccinated people would get sick from an outbreak infection.  The point I was trying to get across to Steve is that vaccinated people still get sick.  He keeps spouting that we all just need to get the shot and it will go away.  It will not.  The high number of people vaccinated in Mass. proves this.  Mass. has a high outbreak right now in every county, with some worse than others.  The high immunity rate in Mass has not stopped the spread, but it has slowed down the number of deaths related to the virus.

Aug 4, 2021 - 3:50:45 PM
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Players Union Member

DC5

USA

20427 posts since 6/30/2015

quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97

I like the no. 666,,, has a nice ring to it. 


What about 667, the neighbor of the beast.

Aug 4, 2021 - 5:12:24 PM
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6265 posts since 10/13/2007

quote:
Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rogers

The flu is irrelevant in dealing with Covid-19. We have long since reached a consensus on dealing (or not) with the flu. Covid-19 is a very different illness—far more contagious, far more debilitating when it doesn’t kill you, and, it seems, much faster to mutate. Ethically and morally, you do not have the freedom to decide for yourself how to deal with Covid, because it is all but certain your behavior will affect others one way or another—for two reasons: transmissibility of the disease and the significant number of asymptomatic carriers, who can spread Covid unknowingly. You may be willing to risk contracting Covid-19, but you have no legal or moral right to endanger others. You have an ethical obligation to do all you can to prevent that. Your personal belief that you are doing so even if you go unmasked and unvaccinated doesn’t cut it.


Bill,

I am like you in that I feel if everyone would get vaccinated we could really put this in the rear view mirror Except for the fact that the world needs to be vaccinated or this can mutate and come back on us or any vaccine we have Unless we control traffic into this nation.

I am not like you when you say: "We have long since reached a consensus on dealing"..with covid. There are obviously some people that are not in consensus and who disagree with you and me about the vaccine.When the vaccine was being developed there were some extremely high ranking US government people who said they did not trust the vaccine and would not take it. They were allowed to take this stance. I just don't feel right with me saying or anyone saying that I am or that they are Now the final arbiter of what You have to put in your body. We sure did not say that to the high officials.

Ken


Please note and also my apology to Bill. Bill did NOT say that we have reached consensus on Covid and I claimed he said that. My bad. I have to slow down my reading sometimes. That is something my 4th teacher would have thought impossible...that I could read any slower.

ken

Aug 4, 2021 - 5:25:12 PM
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dawgdoc

USA

9132 posts since 8/25/2004

quote:
Originally posted by Banjonewguy
If it's patently untrue then your argument is with those quoted in the article. And the reasons behind the ability to stop polio and smallpox were already discussed by dave, primarily the fact that they didn't spread as fast.

You either didn't read the reporters' articles or mine critically.   I very much disagree with the conclusions.  Flu ain't covid. I do most certainly hope this turns into an endemic, but there is currently no data to suggest it will; its all hopeful speculation.  And I also wish everyone would stop using the words 'proven' or 'proved'.  Ain't nothing for certain right now and you can't 'prove' that which is unknown.  Science doesn't allow for it.  

Aug 4, 2021 - 7:02:15 PM
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donc

Canada

6735 posts since 2/9/2010

Enough of the alternate facts already ...!


 

Aug 4, 2021 - 8:20:16 PM
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1572 posts since 1/28/2013

quote:
Originally posted by dawgdoc
quote:
Originally posted by Banjonewguy
If it's patently untrue then your argument is with those quoted in the article. And the reasons behind the ability to stop polio and smallpox were already discussed by dave, primarily the fact that they didn't spread as fast.

You either didn't read the reporters' articles or mine critically.   I very much disagree with the conclusions.  Flu ain't covid. I do most certainly hope this turns into an endemic, but there is currently no data to suggest it will; its all hopeful speculation.  And I also wish everyone would stop using the words 'proven' or 'proved'.  Ain't nothing for certain right now and you can't 'prove' that which is unknown.  Science doesn't allow for it.  


The only thing certain is literally over 100,000 Illegal Aliens show up at the Border every month. In June alone 188,000 crossed over the Border, most are not Vaccinated.Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis snapped at Biden for criticizing his handling of COVID-19: 'Why don't you do your job?' (msn.com) 

Edited by - jan dupree on 08/04/2021 20:23:55

Aug 4, 2021 - 10:30:20 PM
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74 posts since 5/20/2020

Illegal aliens are mostly good people that are broke and desperate. I hired a family of them to do all sorts of things for $80/day, $2400/month. They work like a 2yr old mule. I am glad to know them and I think they send about $2000 back to OAXACA.

I will carve up a criminal of any race or creed and feed them to the coyotes at the end of southern boulevard in Albuquerque, like it is nothing

Aug 5, 2021 - 4:02:27 AM
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1312 posts since 9/6/2019

quote:
Originally posted by dawgdoc
quote:
Originally posted by Banjonewguy
If it's patently untrue then your argument is with those quoted in the article. And the reasons behind the ability to stop polio and smallpox were already discussed by dave, primarily the fact that they didn't spread as fast.

You either didn't read the reporters' articles or mine critically.   I very much disagree with the conclusions.  Flu ain't covid. I do most certainly hope this turns into an endemic, but there is currently no data to suggest it will; its all hopeful speculation.  And I also wish everyone would stop using the words 'proven' or 'proved'.  Ain't nothing for certain right now and you can't 'prove' that which is unknown.  Science doesn't allow for it.  


I read both. I saw where the article focused on influenza and you are correct that COVID and flu aren't the same, but their method of infection is the same. I also appreciate that you disagree with their conclusions and you may be exactly right in your disagreement. However, you may also be wrong. I am not a virologist or anything close so I read what they have to say and go from there. However, the very same people we are being told to listen to about everything are saying that this will, in all likelihood, become endemic and the very same people who keep telling me, and others, that we are nowhere near qualified to argue with them on anything that they are wrong and the vaccine will destroy the virus. Which is it, do we listen to their every statement and take it as the gospel and do not dare ask any questions or do we point out the hypocrisy shown when people say listen to them up to the point they don't like what's being said? 

As to using proven or proved, it has been proven that fully vaccinated people can contract the virus. There is no arguing that point and that is the point I was making. It is also proven that fully vaccinated people can and will get severe enough symptoms that they will have to be hospitalized and even die from the disease. Again, there is no arguing that and that, again, is the point I was making. The numbers, at least right now, are small but they are there, they aren't a statistical anomaly, and it is being seen all over the world. I just read where the UK is reporting that 9% of their hospitalizations are fully vaccinated, non-immunocompromised people. They are also reporting that as many as 40% of their total new infections are among fully vaccinated people. Since Delta was in the UK before it was here, it stands to reason that we will probably start seeing the same thing if not more. The argument is about someone saying that if you are vaccinated it's not happening while completely ignoring the worldwide evidence that their argument is false. Yes, the numbers are very small, but they are still happening. That is the very simple point being made and there is no valid argument to the contrary unless you aren't following the science and proof that is right there.

Aug 5, 2021 - 4:14:16 AM
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1312 posts since 9/6/2019

quote:
Originally posted by jan dupree
quote:
Originally posted by dawgdoc
quote:
Originally posted by Banjonewguy
If it's patently untrue then your argument is with those quoted in the article. And the reasons behind the ability to stop polio and smallpox were already discussed by dave, primarily the fact that they didn't spread as fast.

You either didn't read the reporters' articles or mine critically.   I very much disagree with the conclusions.  Flu ain't covid. I do most certainly hope this turns into an endemic, but there is currently no data to suggest it will; its all hopeful speculation.  And I also wish everyone would stop using the words 'proven' or 'proved'.  Ain't nothing for certain right now and you can't 'prove' that which is unknown.  Science doesn't allow for it.  


The only thing certain is literally over 100,000 Illegal Aliens show up at the Border every month. In June alone 188,000 crossed over the Border, most are not Vaccinated.Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis snapped at Biden for criticizing his handling of COVID-19: 'Why don't you do your job?' (msn.com) 


Would you give the whole "blame it on the illegals" a rest? We don't have Delta because of illegals, it is here because we willingly allowed people from infected regions to travel here with our full permission. Yes, illegal immigrants do bring some diseases across the border with them, and I have no doubt that many of them are infected with COVID, but they aren't the ones spreading this all over the country. They are only a small factor in the overall equation. Allowing travel from infected regions, vaccine resistance, unsafe behavior in infected areas, illegal immigrants (see, I acknowledged it), and a mutated virus that is, at least, partially vaccine resistant all factor into what is happening right now. Trying to blame illegals is just as silly as trying to blame the unvaccinated for everything. The only purpose it serves is to excuse your own behavior because of something someone else is doing. You are part of the problem with all of your "No Mask, No Shot" mantra just as much as those illegals you want to blame.

Aug 5, 2021 - 4:22:17 AM
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banjoy

USA

9850 posts since 7/1/2006

I have a great deal of respect for dawgdoc and always appreciate his posts, but when I read his comment about please stop using the words "proved" or "proven" and that science does not allow for that, I thought that was nuts, honestly, and it certainly hit a me as really odd. Of course things can be proved and proven, science does this all the time. Gravitational forces have been proven to exist. What other word would you use? Is there any possibility that some other theory could come along and disprove gravity? What about the existence of the planets? We can't see them, yet they have been proven to exist. Or individual cells. We cannot see them yet science has proven they exist and have parts they've even named? What about virus? Have they been proven to exist, or not? If "proven" is not the right word, then what is? What word should lay people use, then?

I understand dawgdoc's overall point, not to use the term willy-nilly for everything, which I understand, but then to say science does not allow for it, is simply incorrect.

As Banjonewguy points out, it definitely has been proven that vaccinated people can be infected and it was science that proved that. What other word would one use here? Established? Shown to be true? Beyond doubt? Manifest? How many synonyms can take the place of one word?

I'm not sure why scientists shy away from certain words when clearly that is the correct term to use. Words have meaning, and words have power. I come from a family of scientists, I have never, ever heard them shy away from this word. This makes no sense to me. When my dad began at WR Grace, printing onto plastic could not be done. My dad developed the first method to apply ink to plastic and it worked, thereby proving it could be done. That was a big deal in the 1960s.

Good grief.

Aug 5, 2021 - 5:34:43 AM

figmo59

USA

34341 posts since 3/5/2008

quote:
Originally posted by DC5
quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97

I like the no. 666,,, has a nice ring to it. 


What about 667, the neighbor of the beast.


I like ..77...

8..more.......

Aug 5, 2021 - 5:51:01 AM
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figmo59

USA

34341 posts since 3/5/2008

The real plain arguement...
Is...dose one person or group..of people..
Have the right to force an experiment....

On other people...

Regardless if they want it or not....


If so.. then there are no rights....for annahone...

But only a game of power..n who is top dog..
to dicktate...what will be done..

Aug 5, 2021 - 6:25:11 AM
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12283 posts since 6/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by figmo59

The real plain arguement...
Is...dose one person or group..of people..
Have the right to force an experiment....

On other people...

Regardless if they want it or not....


If so.. then there are no rights....for annahone...

But only a game of power..n who is top dog..
to dicktate...what will be done..


Well, FDA is very near to granting the Pfizer vaccine approval, so the non-approve/experimental argument will evaporate.

That leaves you with the "government can't make me" argument, which was settled over a hundred years ago. The Supreme Court ruled in Jacobson vs Massachusetts in 1905 for crying out loud that in the interest of public safety government can mandate vaccination. The specific case was about the smallpox vaccine.

Aug 5, 2021 - 6:37:28 AM

1312 posts since 9/6/2019

quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickory
quote:
Originally posted by figmo59

The real plain arguement...
Is...dose one person or group..of people..
Have the right to force an experiment....

On other people...

Regardless if they want it or not....


If so.. then there are no rights....for annahone...

But only a game of power..n who is top dog..
to dicktate...what will be done..


Well, FDA is very near to granting the Pfizer vaccine approval, so the non-approve/experimental argument will evaporate.

That leaves you with the "government can't make me" argument, which was settled over a hundred years ago. The Supreme Court ruled in Jacobson vs Massachusetts in 1905 for crying out loud that in the interest of public safety government can mandate vaccination. The specific case was about the smallpox vaccine.


Once it's approved, you are exactly right. The fact that the same people who complained that the last guy would try to rush that approval, yet are advocating for a rushed approval now is another topic, but a fully approved vaccine can be mandated.

Honestly, I'm still waiting for an answer to the question I asked about forced participation in medical experimentation being medically ethical or not.

Aug 5, 2021 - 6:38:22 AM
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banjoy

USA

9850 posts since 7/1/2006

This is another strawman argument all over the media. There is no government mandate for ordinary citizens for this vaccine and there most likely never will be. There ARE mandates for employees, in and out of government. That's a different animal.

For those who love the marketplace and capitalism, well, it's the prerogative of private companies to do as they want as long as it's legal. Suddenly all those who champion the forces of the marketplace are now all about whining about wokeness and all that nonsense. Oh woe is the private company that does something I don't like, I guess?

This again brings up fear and rumor mongering in the media. One notable idiotic pundit who has her own show, has been fear mongering about government employees going door to door forcing you to be vaccinated, and oh by the way while they're there, they'll take all your guns. This is all pure bulls*** yet folks buy into it hook, line and sinker.

Gullibility is a permanent condition, unfortunately.

(And so there is no question about it, figmo, I am not talking about you, unless the shoe fits...)

Edited by - banjoy on 08/05/2021 06:39:29

Aug 5, 2021 - 6:59:04 AM
Players Union Member

DC5

USA

20427 posts since 6/30/2015

quote:
Originally posted by banjoy



Gullibility is a permanent condition, unfortunately.

 


That's not even a real word and isn't in any dictionary. devil

Aug 5, 2021 - 7:05:43 AM
Players Union Member

DC5

USA

20427 posts since 6/30/2015

quote:
Originally posted by jan dupree
quote:
Originally posted by Banjonewguy

None, just like you never studied under one either, yet you feel free to spout your opinions regarding how the vaccine will save the world and eradicate COVID when it is being proven every day that people can still be infected despite being vaccinated. Actually, if you look back at many of the past pandemics of influenza, no vaccine was responsible for stopping them. But, since you suddenly require full confirmation from medical experts, here are a couple who say the same thing I just did:

medicalxpress.com/news/2021-02...ears.html

statnews.com/2021/05/19/how-th...e-future/

Oddly enough, I haven't seen you ask a single person who agrees with your non-MD medical opinions what doctors they studied under. I wonder why?


Nothing can be done to eradicate a virus. Viruses have existed for thousands of years and will continue to exist, just let it run it's course and everything will be fine. But you will have to turn off your TV and Computer for a month.


Smallpox? Polio?  Keep ignoring facts, it doesn't make you look smarter.

Aug 5, 2021 - 7:06:11 AM

dat

USA

31306 posts since 7/26/2006

quote:
Originally posted by DC5
quote:
Originally posted by banjoy



Gullibility is a permanent condition, unfortunately.

 


That's not even a real word and isn't in any dictionary. devil


Ha, now ya want to bring up facts

Aug 5, 2021 - 7:06:36 AM

dat

USA

31306 posts since 7/26/2006

wink

Aug 5, 2021 - 7:13:57 AM
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banjoy

USA

9850 posts since 7/1/2006

quote:
Originally posted by DC5
quote:
Originally posted by banjoy



Gullibility is a permanent condition, unfortunately.

 


That's not even a real word and isn't in any dictionary. devil


LOL!!!! Of course it is. All my made up words are not fit for public consumption and boy, do I have a few gooduns'...

Aug 5, 2021 - 7:14:49 AM

figmo59

USA

34341 posts since 3/5/2008

quote:
Originally posted by banjoy

This is another strawman argument all over the media. There is no government mandate for ordinary citizens for this vaccine and there most likely never will be. There ARE mandates for employees, in and out of government. That's a different animal.

For those who love the marketplace and capitalism, well, it's the prerogative of private companies to do as they want as long as it's legal. Suddenly all those who champion the forces of the marketplace are now all about whining about wokeness and all that nonsense. Oh woe is the private company that does something I don't like, I guess?

This again brings up fear and rumor mongering in the media. One notable idiotic pundit who has her own show, has been fear mongering about government employees going door to door forcing you to be vaccinated, and oh by the way while they're there, they'll take all your guns. This is all pure bulls*** yet folks buy into it hook, line and sinker.

Gullibility is a permanent condition, unfortunately.

(And so there is no question about it, figmo, I am not talking about you, unless the shoe fits...)


There's more than one way to skin a cat....

The end goal is the objective....

 

A rose by any other name is still a rose...

 

Mandate is a mandate...no matter who or how it is put in place...

I respectfully request that you do nt be that gullable...

That request is fer yer own good...

Becose I know what is best fer you...

 

That is me opinion...just like yours...

So...

Yagonnadewit...?

I doubt it...

 

Becose you know that you can make up yer own mind...

Just like....me.... ;0)

Aug 5, 2021 - 7:31:30 AM

banjo bill-e

Tuvalu

11584 posts since 2/22/2007

----" There is no government mandate for ordinary citizens--"

Best keep your eyes on this one. Some in power have an insatiable appetite for mandates and they are openly drooling right now.

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