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Jul 24, 2021 - 1:35:39 PM
183 posts since 1/11/2006

?

Edited by - Darryl Hattenhauer on 07/24/2021 13:45:51

Jul 24, 2021 - 1:36:55 PM

183 posts since 1/11/2006

?

Edited by - Darryl Hattenhauer on 07/24/2021 13:42:41

Jul 24, 2021 - 1:38:46 PM

183 posts since 1/11/2006

quote:
Originally posted by Darryl Hattenhauer

{buyer]:
Unfortunately, I don't like the sound. Can I return it for a refund? I will pay all shipping. I'll also put in two Kluson cam D tuners, which is what Gibson put on these at the factory.

[seller]
I’m sorry you’ve altered it by drilling out the plugs. It’s a banjo, I don’t warrant the “sound”. You can test the sound before putting in new tuners?? Please

[Buyer]
I didn't alter it. I didn't take out the plugs or drill it or change it in anyway, I'd just give you the dame kind of d tuners that somebody took out of it. Maybe you could sell this to the guy who missed it by $50, and he'd get the right d tuners for free.

[seller]
You can’t put new tuners where the plugs were- that’s altering. I’m sorry you have buyers remorse. Gibson banjos are the best out there. Please understand.

 

seller Ther tuners are in the case pocket.
Reply


Jul 24, 2021 - 2:09:42 PM

4649 posts since 11/20/2004

Was it sold with a return policy?
If so, was there a time limit and was this within the time ?
Did the policy only allow returns if not as described or for any reason ?
I understand the confusion with "putting in" the tuners, but they were being offered as a gift for accepting a return.
I agree we cannot warrant sound, but sellers usually benefit from happy buyers.
To me, the questions would determine my answer.

Jul 24, 2021 - 2:22:27 PM

183 posts since 1/11/2006

Bobby,

Was it sold with a return policy?
No policy stated by seller, buyer, or ebay.

If so, was there a time limit and was this within the time ?
Buyer requested refund ;ess than 24 hours after Fed ex delivered it to the buyer.

Did the policy only allow returns if not as described or for any reason ?
Nobody made such statements, and the only change was two free Kluson tuners were put into the case pocket for free.

I understand the confusion with "putting in" the tuners, but they were being offered as a gift for accepting a return.
Yes

I agree we cannot warrant sound, but sellers usually benefit from happy buyers.
Don't reputable dealers take back things that just didn't sound good to the buyer?

Jul 24, 2021 - 3:58:42 PM
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1519 posts since 4/13/2009

I vote for the seller

Jul 24, 2021 - 4:48:03 PM

beegee

USA

22462 posts since 7/6/2005

Well, sound is subjective and a goo set-up mechanic can work wonders with different combinations and adjustments. What sounds good to me and 99 others may not sound good to a different 100. Unless there are serious misrepresentations, I say live with it or re-sell it.

while I am not casting aspersions, I know there are those who like to kick the tires. Unless there was a specific return clause, I am with the seller. When I sell any instrument, I have a no return policy unless another deal is negotiated. Insurance covers damage.

Edited by - beegee on 07/24/2021 16:51:12

Jul 24, 2021 - 5:00:10 PM

Bill Rogers (Moderator)

USA

25127 posts since 6/25/2005

Agreed that if there was no stated return policy, that refusing to accept a return is reasonable. Anyone buying a banjo should get the return policy clarified ahead of time. That sad, the seller’s inability to grasp the tuner situation and citing that as a reason for not accepting the return suggests that returns of unaltered banjos are ok.

Jul 24, 2021 - 5:20:07 PM
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rcc56

USA

3691 posts since 2/20/2016

No policy was stated by the seller, the buyer, or the broker. That complicates matters. But . . .

The buyer's inclusion of a set of tuners in the case pocket was a gesture of good will, and had monetary value. That's +1 for the buyer.
"Gibson banjos are the best out there." Most experienced players know that not all Gibson instruments are good. That's -1 for the seller.
As stated above, "sellers usually benefit from happy buyers."
And, I don't know if the seller was a store or a private individual, but most of the long established stores with the best reputations have found it to be a good idea to sell with a 2 to 3 day return policy. Satisfied customers come back, unhappy ones do not.

I'm with the buyer on this one.

I've had quite a few instruments pass through my hands over the years. I have returned three:

One was because the condition of the instrument was poorly represented by the seller. That happened to be a now defunct, well known store in a place called Staten Island. They really knew better, and they must have been used to a lot of returns, because they didn't even ask why I was returning it. If they had, I might have tried to negotiate a price settlement with them.

One was because the instrument simply did not sound good to me. Mr. Oster took it back with no complaints, and since then, I have referred business to him several times.

And one was because the instrument, which was a classical guitar, turned out to have a wolf note in it when I replaced the worn-out strings with a fresh set. Mr. Gruhn took it back with no complaints. Since then, I continued to do business with him, both for myself and also on behalf of students or as an agent for someone else.

I did once buy an instrument, and after owning it for about six weeks, discovered that the neck was just not comfortable to me. I understood that a return was not possible because I had kept it so long. I was able to sell it quickly to someone who liked the neck very well. If I had not been able to find a buyer, I would have consigned it at the store I bought it from and accepted any loss I might have incurred in the deal.

A few years back, I took the pledge. I still like to look, though. No-return policies and re-stocking fees have made "taking the pledge" a lot easier. Under normal circumstances, I would not consider any instrument that I could not return if the sound, condition, or the shape of the neck did not fit me.

I did break the pledge once and bought one instrument-- a Goya 12 string for $150 plus shipping, which I took apart and re-braced. It is the only instrument I have ever bought on a "no returns" policy, and the seller and I discussed the instrument on the phone before I sent the check. At $150, I was willing to take the gamble, and the neck alone was worth the selling price.

If I decide to get back into the "restore and re-sell" business, I might buy another instrument "as-is," but if I do, I will have a long discussion with the seller about the condition of the instrument before sending him any money.

Again, the prevalence of "no returns" policies on Reverb, ebay, and in forum classifieds makes it very easy for me to keep the pledge.

Edited by - rcc56 on 07/24/2021 17:33:50

Jul 24, 2021 - 5:58:11 PM

rcc56

USA

3691 posts since 2/20/2016

A few things that buyers and sellers should understand:

There is a large number of potential buyers who won't even consider buying an instrument sold on a "no-returns" policy.
No buyer likes sellers who do not represent their product honestly, and no seller likes tire kickers.
Anyone who buys or sells instruments long distance will sooner or later encounter a situation where an instrument does not fit a buyer. It comes with the territory.
Any purchase entails a certain amount of risk to both the buyer and the seller. It is important that both parties communicate well with each other and understand all policies connected with a sale.
Those who want to eliminate risks as much as possible would probably be better off buying or selling through a reputable dealer.  Those dealers absorb 95%+ of the potential risks, including shipping damage, bad checks [or the modern equivalent], and buyers who are not acting in good faith.  The dealer's consignment fee takes care of the cost of marketing the instrument, the cost of insurance, and the time and effort it takes to close a sale and pack and ship an instrument.

Edited by - rcc56 on 07/24/2021 18:10:53

Jul 24, 2021 - 6:20:41 PM

4649 posts since 11/20/2004

By buying with no clear return policy, you made a critical mistake. At this point, you are strictly dependent on the kindness of the seller. I would hope he wants a happy customer, but in today's business world, too many want your money above all else. If you received what was represented to you, at the agreed price, he met his obligation.
If the seller stands firm, your choices would be to alter the sound through setup changes or just put it back up for sale. You can offer free shipping and the extra tuners with what you offered your seller, and possibly make a profit.

Jul 24, 2021 - 7:12:36 PM

12137 posts since 6/2/2008

I guess it's not this one with plugged cam holes, because this was listed with 30-day return.

Jul 25, 2021 - 8:36:42 AM

14183 posts since 10/30/2008

Returning a banjo because you don't like the sound is a big ask of a seller. Unless it has been negotiated pre-sale, IN WRITING, that the banjo can be returned FOR ANY REASON, I don't think the seller is being unreasonable.

Putting in tuners is certainly "altering" in my book. Whether for better or for worse isn't the issue.

Why on earth did the buyer install tuners before deciding if he was keeping the banjo?

I'm with the seller on this one.

Jul 25, 2021 - 9:29:36 AM

rcc56

USA

3691 posts since 2/20/2016

The buyer did not install any tuners. He simply included them [and they are period correct for the instrument] in the case pocket as a gesture of good will.  But I would say that at this point, it doesn't matter what any of us might think about who is "right" and who is "wrong."

At any rate, the deal has gone south, and if the buyer and seller don't come to an amicable agreement, which seems unlikely, the buyer will have to keep the instrument.  If he tries to force the issue, there is a risk that the buyer will not return his money if the banjo is returned.   If the buyer doesn't like the instrument, he will be much safer putting it up for sale himself.

Edited by - rcc56 on 07/25/2021 09:44:05

Jul 25, 2021 - 9:48:43 AM

rcc56

USA

3691 posts since 2/20/2016

Please observe my correction:
quote:
Originally posted by rcc56

 

At any rate, the deal has gone south, and if the buyer and seller don't come to an amicable agreement, which seems unlikely, the buyer will have to keep the instrument.  If he tries to force the issue, there is a risk that the seller will not return the buyer's money if the banjo is returned.   If the buyer doesn't like the instrument, he will be much safer putting it up for sale himself.


Edited by - rcc56 on 07/25/2021 09:50:12

Jul 25, 2021 - 12:39:11 PM

O.D.

USA

3613 posts since 10/29/2003

If sound is the only
Issue with a perfectly fine banjo,its on the buyer.
Banjo players are always chasing the optimal sound of their instruments and can for the most part be adjusted or set up to get what your looking for
IMHO
Everett

Jul 25, 2021 - 7:59:02 PM

12137 posts since 6/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by Darryl Hattenhauer

Don't reputable dealers take back things that just didn't sound good to the buyer?


Many eBay sellers are not actual "dealers" in used instruments. They acquire items, sometimes in estate sales, and resell them as-is.

Maybe that's the case with your seller.

I don't think it's possible to list an item on eBay without stating the return policy. It's a required item in the listing process. Either No Returns or returns within a specified number of days.

So if this was eBay, as implied by one of your previous messages, it HAD to have said something about returns.

Can you point to the listing?

Jul 26, 2021 - 12:55:31 PM

183 posts since 1/11/2006

Thanks for all the info--from both sides. They show me that I've made a lot of wrong assumptions.

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