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Jun 20, 2021 - 11:36:24 AM
12237 posts since 1/15/2005
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I found this to be quite interesting!
 

https://effectiviology.com/hubris/

Jun 20, 2021 - 2:09:25 PM

Owen

Canada

8984 posts since 6/5/2011
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I suppose I'll "get mine in the end," but in the meantime I guess I should be glad I'm not living in ancient Athens:  "In ancient Greece, for example, hubris was associated with various types of offenses, and was punishable in some places, such as Athens. For instance, in some cases, hubris was connected with excessive eating or drinking, as well as other kinds of indulgence."   

I wonder just what the standard punishment for excessive eating was back then/there..... and whether it was proportional. 

Jun 20, 2021 - 2:14:16 PM

Tommy5

USA

3810 posts since 2/22/2009

quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink

I found this to be quite interesting!
 

https://effectiviology.com/hubris/


The example of Napoleons invasion of Russia as an example of hubris is nonsense. Napoleon never wanted to "conquer" Russia,, The Russians were the aggressors in the conflict, not the French. The czar violated the treaty of Tilsit by trading with the British, the Russians were attempting to form yet another coalition with Prussia to attack the Duchy of Warsaw. The czar didn't want the Poles to have a sovereign nation, Napoleon had promised the Poles independence if they allied with him,. Napoleon called the war, the second Polish campaign. Napoleon wasn't in Russia during the winter, he was in Paris by late November. Napoleon invaded Russia not to conquer it in some hubris scheme for glory , but simply wanted to engage the Czars army, defeat him as he done before and  continue his support for an independent Poland. Napoleon had been basically undefeated for nearly a decade, so another victory was hardly a stretch, the Russians basically cheated, they cowardly refused to fight him as he marched through their nation freeing the serfs, they burned  down Moscow and starved their own people .Most of the Grand Army died in the way into Russia not out, a third died of Typhus. Ironically after the battle of Leipzig, the allies invade France, Napoleon put one of his best generals in defense of Paris. The general surrendered Paris without a fight to save the city from destruction, when Napoleon asked him why, he said, "Paris is not Moscow ". I would say more battles or sporting events or life's struggles have been lost to lack of confidence ,not overconfidence.

Edited by - Tommy5 on 06/20/2021 14:17:40

Jun 20, 2021 - 6:10:50 PM

12237 posts since 1/15/2005
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by Tommy5
quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink

I found this to be quite interesting!
 

https://effectiviology.com/hubris/


The example of Napoleons invasion of Russia as an example of hubris is nonsense. Napoleon never wanted to "conquer" Russia,, The Russians were the aggressors in the conflict, not the French. The czar violated the treaty of Tilsit by trading with the British, the Russians were attempting to form yet another coalition with Prussia to attack the Duchy of Warsaw. The czar didn't want the Poles to have a sovereign nation, Napoleon had promised the Poles independence if they allied with him,. Napoleon called the war, the second Polish campaign. Napoleon wasn't in Russia during the winter, he was in Paris by late November. Napoleon invaded Russia not to conquer it in some hubris scheme for glory , but simply wanted to engage the Czars army, defeat him as he done before and  continue his support for an independent Poland. Napoleon had been basically undefeated for nearly a decade, so another victory was hardly a stretch, the Russians basically cheated, they cowardly refused to fight him as he marched through their nation freeing the serfs, they burned  down Moscow and starved their own people .Most of the Grand Army died in the way into Russia not out, a third died of Typhus. Ironically after the battle of Leipzig, the allies invade France, Napoleon put one of his best generals in defense of Paris. The general surrendered Paris without a fight to save the city from destruction, when Napoleon asked him why, he said, "Paris is not Moscow ". I would say more battles or sporting events or life's struggles have been lost to lack of confidence ,not overconfidence.


I'm not sure what the formal definition's but hubris seems closely associated with haughtiness, arrogance, and smugness.  When I think of military leaders I immediately think of Douglass MacArthur.  Is there some degree of these traits that are necessary in a leader ...... especially a military leader.  

Jun 20, 2021 - 6:25:16 PM

Tommy5

USA

3810 posts since 2/22/2009

quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy5
quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink

I found this to be quite interesting!
 

https://effectiviology.com/hubris/


The example of Napoleons invasion of Russia as an example of hubris is nonsense. Napoleon never wanted to "conquer" Russia,, The Russians were the aggressors in the conflict, not the French. The czar violated the treaty of Tilsit by trading with the British, the Russians were attempting to form yet another coalition with Prussia to attack the Duchy of Warsaw. The czar didn't want the Poles to have a sovereign nation, Napoleon had promised the Poles independence if they allied with him,. Napoleon called the war, the second Polish campaign. Napoleon wasn't in Russia during the winter, he was in Paris by late November. Napoleon invaded Russia not to conquer it in some hubris scheme for glory , but simply wanted to engage the Czars army, defeat him as he done before and  continue his support for an independent Poland. Napoleon had been basically undefeated for nearly a decade, so another victory was hardly a stretch, the Russians basically cheated, they cowardly refused to fight him as he marched through their nation freeing the serfs, they burned  down Moscow and starved their own people .Most of the Grand Army died in the way into Russia not out, a third died of Typhus. Ironically after the battle of Leipzig, the allies invade France, Napoleon put one of his best generals in defense of Paris. The general surrendered Paris without a fight to save the city from destruction, when Napoleon asked him why, he said, "Paris is not Moscow ". I would say more battles or sporting events or life's struggles have been lost to lack of confidence ,not overconfidence.


I'm not sure what the formal definition's but hubris seems closely associated with haughtiness, arrogance, and smugness.  When I think of military leaders I immediately think of Douglass MacArthur.  Is there some degree of these traits that are necessary in a leader ...... especially a military leader.  


 Very true, Eisenhower who worked under MacArthur in the Philippines said he studied dramatics for years under MacArthur. In WW1,  MacArthur would lead his troops from the front with a  walking stick. calmly giving orders as if he was in a Sunday walk in the park, he believed he wouldn't get shot and he wasn't,. Same with Patton who rode into battle in WW1 calmly sitting on top of his tank. In WW2, Patton refused to go into a slit trench during air raids again believing he wouldn't be shot. Patton also ordered his General Officers not to go into the trenches during an air raid, he thought it was undignified. During an inspection of the Big Red One , Patton asked to see General Allen's air raid trench, when he go to it , he unzipped and took a leak in the trench so the General couldn't use the trench, Allen's staff was furious and nearly came to blows with Patton.

Edited by - Tommy5 on 06/20/2021 18:26:26

Jun 20, 2021 - 7:03:18 PM

Buddur

USA

2999 posts since 10/23/2004

Jun 20, 2021 - 7:58:02 PM

12237 posts since 1/15/2005
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by Buddur

Hubris: The Inside Story of Spin, Scandal, and the Selling of the....


Thanks Tom ...... considering the authors of that book, I would guess that they are very familiar with hubris.

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