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Jun 16, 2021 - 2:03:01 AM

mander

USA

4662 posts since 10/7/2007

I have always assumed that our store had a fearless leader somewhere, a strange little man hiding behind a curtain pushing the buttons and pulling the levers. I worked at my store six months? seven? before I learned who he was. He is by far one of the less accessible bosses I have ever had. He's very reclusive. I can count on one hand the number of times I've caught sight of the man. I have a co-worker who has been fit to be tied over him because he has been rather lax about wearing a mask all this time. Anyway, he got it. He got the Vid. My co-worker was furious! "He's suppose to be a role model!" This has long puzzled me. A role model? To who? Not me. I'm a decade older. I could teach him a thing or two. I do think, however, that he should be a business man, and any business man should have some kind of vague idea about the fact sick pay is expensive and a company doesn't want to have to shell out money to sick employees if they don't have to.

It sort of reminds me of a Ron White joke where he's taking about people who ignore hurricane warnings because they are healthy. "It isn't that the wind is blowing, it's what the wind is blowing. If the wind smacks you with a Volvo, it doesn't matter how healthy your spleen is."

Anyway, Ron White, role models, fearless leaders, you choose. What do you feel like talking about?

Edited by - mander on 06/16/2021 02:03:40

Jun 16, 2021 - 2:21:40 AM
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figmo59

USA

33803 posts since 3/5/2008

Sorry..
But..
I am not clear on what the..vid. ..is?
He got the vid. ?

Jun 16, 2021 - 4:42:28 AM
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Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

26068 posts since 8/3/2003

quote:
Originally posted by figmo59

Sorry..
But..
I am not clear on what the..vid. ..is?
He got the vid. ?


Fig,  he got coVID.

Jun 16, 2021 - 6:30:51 AM
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Players Union Member

wizofos

USA

6037 posts since 8/19/2012

Mander, most modern day business people do not think farther than tomorrow morning. In some cases they think only of this quarter's profits. I don't remember how many times I sat in budget meetings for fortune 100 companies and begged for funds to harden our IT environment against hacking and viruses and told that we did not have funds for that. So they get a virus and end up spending weeks cleaning up the network or are hacked and end up paying 5 times what it would cost to harden the firewalls.
So your question about the cost of sick leave VS keeping people healthy and productive and being a good role model. Most managers can't or don't want to think beyond next quarter's profit or loss so how can you expect them to think longer term about the potential loss of a sick employee, sick leave, lost productivity, poor moral of the employees who have to carry the work of the sick person.
In my opinion most managers and leaders were promoted to the position because they were incompetent in the production environment.

Jun 16, 2021 - 3:16:40 PM

figmo59

USA

33803 posts since 3/5/2008

Thankyou T B ....

Jun 16, 2021 - 3:27:36 PM
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QldPicker

Australia

360 posts since 4/17/2020

With some of the bosses I have worked for, NOT ever laying eyes on them would be Nirvana.
Putting it mildly, some of them were not very nice people!

Jun 16, 2021 - 4:27:10 PM

Tommy5

USA

3807 posts since 2/22/2009

Fearless leaders?
One might be Napoleon.
During his return from Elba, a large force sent by King Louis 18th intercepted his small force. As the two forces assembled for an attack, Napoleon told his followers to stand down, walked alone up to the Kings soldiers threw open his coat exposed his chest and said, “ If you are here to kill your Emperor, here I am”. The command to fire was given, nobody pulled a trigger, a shout of Viva La France and the Kings men joined Napoleons rebellion.
Then there was Robert the Bruce, the guy known as “Braveheart”.
Just before the crucial battle of Bannockburn, an accomplished English knight,  Henry de Bohun, spotted the Bruce riding in the vanguard of the Scottish Army , the Bruce only had his battle ax with him no lance. The English knight lowered his lance and galloped at full speed toward the Bruce. The Bruce ,  stood his ground ,parried the lance thrust and then hit Bohun so hard with his battle ax that  Bohun’s helmet and head split open killing him.
At the battle of Jaffa,during the third Crusade, allegedly Richard the Lionhearted rode his horse up and down in front of the Muslim knights and challenged all of them to single combat, saying in French since he didn’t speak English, “ Who wants to be the first to die”.Not a single Muslim took up his offer, which infuriated Salidin.
No they don’t make leaders like that anymore.

Edited by - Tommy5 on 06/16/2021 16:34:18

Jun 16, 2021 - 7:59:07 PM

mander

USA

4662 posts since 10/7/2007

quote:
Originally posted by Tommy5

Fearless leaders?

At the battle of Jaffa,during the third Crusade, allegedly Richard the Lionhearted rode his horse up and down in front of the Muslim knights and challenged all of them to single combat, saying in French since he didn’t speak English, “ Who wants to be the first to die”.Not a single Muslim took up his offer, which infuriated Salidin.
 


Does no one include Salidin?

Jun 16, 2021 - 8:22 PM

Tommy5

USA

3807 posts since 2/22/2009

quote:
Originally posted by mander
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy5

Fearless leaders?

At the battle of Jaffa,during the third Crusade, allegedly Richard the Lionhearted rode his horse up and down in front of the Muslim knights and challenged all of them to single combat, saying in French since he didn’t speak English, “ Who wants to be the first to die”.Not a single Muslim took up his offer, which infuriated Salidin.
 


Does no one include Salidin?


Yes, but he wasn't going to fight Richard , a King doesn't kill a King. The western Norman's  at the crusades were heavy cavalry, generally better armed and  more armored then the Muslims , the Muslims cavalry at that time were generally faster more maneuverable, sometimes armed with a bow. Richard was killed fighting in France by a crossbow bolt , shot by a teenager on a castle rampart.

Jun 16, 2021 - 9:46:53 PM
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Paul R

Canada

14694 posts since 1/28/2010

I worked for a rather brutal principal my first year, who put everybody down, especially the males, and particularly the tall ones. I escaped - transferred out after my first year.

Then I had a principal who was a joy to work for, who appreciated what his staff did, who rebuilt my self-confidence, who gave me responsibilities, and even sent me to a leadership course. He was transferred to another school, then another (principals were moved every five years). I eventually applied for transfer. Steve was principal at the school and I took a grade one - I wanted an intermediate grade - just to get in and work for him. And he gave me the intermediate the next year.

He's the guy who, when I wanted to bring folksingers into his first school, said, "We'll find the money." And he let me arrange for the the musicians to come in. He's the guy who, when I wanted to start a cycling club at the second school, not only gave the o.k., but also went with us on our big trip.

Is that the kind of leadership you're looking for?

Jun 16, 2021 - 10:02:35 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

58214 posts since 10/5/2013

Ok, I’ll play Devil’s advocate - Paul, I think you were leading and your favourite principal was following….

Some folks would say that folksingers and cycling are frivolous activities for a Saturday, and have nothing to do with the rigors of "the 3 R's" - Reading, 'riting, 'rithmetic   devil

Edited by - chuckv97 on 06/16/2021 22:16:18

Jun 17, 2021 - 1:43:44 AM

3600 posts since 4/22/2018
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by Tommy5


Then there was Robert the Bruce, the guy known as “Braveheart”.
 


Tommy, William Wallace was the guy portrayed as Braveheart.  His guts and privates had been spread all over the country some 10 years before Bannockburn.  But You're right, Robert the Bruce did indeed kill Henry de Bohun and generally make a mockery of the English at Bannockburn.

Jun 17, 2021 - 3:36:53 AM
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1114 posts since 9/6/2019

quote:
Originally posted by wizofos

Mander, most modern day business people do not think farther than tomorrow morning. In some cases they think only of this quarter's profits. I don't remember how many times I sat in budget meetings for fortune 100 companies and begged for funds to harden our IT environment against hacking and viruses and told that we did not have funds for that. So they get a virus and end up spending weeks cleaning up the network or are hacked and end up paying 5 times what it would cost to harden the firewalls.
So your question about the cost of sick leave VS keeping people healthy and productive and being a good role model. Most managers can't or don't want to think beyond next quarter's profit or loss so how can you expect them to think longer term about the potential loss of a sick employee, sick leave, lost productivity, poor moral of the employees who have to carry the work of the sick person.
In my opinion most managers and leaders were promoted to the position because they were incompetent in the production environment.


That reminds me of the first rule of business at a place I used to work: There's never time or money to do it right, but there's plenty of time and money to do it over.

Your last sentence describes my current program manager to a tee. When we are 10 minutes late on a project he is screaming about time but the last time we gave him one to work, just so he didn't forget what it takes to produce one of our systems, he diddled around until the hours allowed on it were gone and handed it back to me to finish and then complained because it was late.

Jun 17, 2021 - 3:38:12 AM
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1114 posts since 9/6/2019

quote:
Originally posted by Wet Spaniel
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy5


Then there was Robert the Bruce, the guy known as “Braveheart”.
 


Tommy, William Wallace was the guy portrayed as Braveheart.  His guts and privates had been spread all over the country some 10 years before Bannockburn.  But You're right, Robert the Bruce did indeed kill Henry de Bohun and generally make a mockery of the English at Bannockburn.


One of the most unforgettable experiences in my life was seeing the opening of Braveheart in a Scottish cinema.

Jun 17, 2021 - 4:21:02 AM

3600 posts since 4/22/2018
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by Banjonewguy

One of the most unforgettable experiences in my life was seeing the opening of Braveheart in a Scottish cinema.


I can imagine..... those places are flea pits aren't they?

Jun 17, 2021 - 11:13:49 AM

Tommy5

USA

3807 posts since 2/22/2009

quote:
Originally posted by Wet Spaniel
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy5


Then there was Robert the Bruce, the guy known as “Braveheart”.
 


Tommy, William Wallace was the guy portrayed as Braveheart.  His guts and privates had been spread all over the country some 10 years before Bannockburn.  But You're right, Robert the Bruce did indeed kill Henry de Bohun and generally make a mockery of the English at Bannockburn.


Yes, Wallace was portrayed in  Braveheart the movie but that wasn't his nickname , almost everything in Braveheart was historically inaccurate. Actually the Bruce wasn't known as Braveheart during his lifetime, after he died, his heart was placed in a box and the knights carried the box into crusades in Spain,. Also rumor has it that some of the Scottish knights that made the final assault at Bannockburn were actually Knights Templar that had been banished from France, they were wearing their white tunics with red crosses.

Jun 17, 2021 - 12:28:51 PM
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mander

USA

4662 posts since 10/7/2007

quote:
Originally posted by Paul R

I worked for a rather brutal principal my first year, who put everybody down, especially the males, and particularly the tall ones. I escaped - transferred out after my first year.

Then I had a principal who was a joy to work for, who appreciated what his staff did, who rebuilt my self-confidence, who gave me responsibilities, and even sent me to a leadership course. He was transferred to another school, then another (principals were moved every five years). I eventually applied for transfer. Steve was principal at the school and I took a grade one - I wanted an intermediate grade - just to get in and work for him. And he gave me the intermediate the next year.

He's the guy who, when I wanted to bring folksingers into his first school, said, "We'll find the money." And he let me arrange for the the musicians to come in. He's the guy who, when I wanted to start a cycling club at the second school, not only gave the o.k., but also went with us on our big trip.

Is that the kind of leadership you're looking for?y

yes, actually, that works

Jun 17, 2021 - 12:50:09 PM
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Paul R

Canada

14694 posts since 1/28/2010

quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97

Ok, I’ll play Devil’s advocate - Paul, I think you were leading and your favourite principal was following….

Some folks would say that folksingers and cycling are frivolous activities for a Saturday, and have nothing to do with the rigors of "the 3 R's" - Reading, 'riting, 'rithmetic   devil


i also conducted choir, led the music at mass, coached, did various things outside the classroom. But, as Steve said, "Those are the things they'll remember." The classroom stuff is important, but it's the rest that makes a difference. Steve wasn't following, he was giving us the freedom to be creative. (That's a staff-student ball game in the schoolyard, ca. '76. Steve was umpire and I was catcher - in my Dixie Flyers Bluegrass t-shirt. Those were the days.)


 

Jun 17, 2021 - 4:56:10 PM

Paul R

Canada

14694 posts since 1/28/2010

Contrast with my second-last principal, who agreed to have a cycling club, approved a letter of permission, then went to the principal's meeting and showed the letter to our superintendent. He disallowed it and I was told to "get those letters back", but they'd already gone out. This was followed by an early morning meeting with the superintendent, who, in spite of my reasoning, still forbade it. As a retired principal friend of mine put it, "Why did she show him the letter?" That's the difference between a principal teacher (Steve) and a principal administrator. Give me the former any day. When my last principal came in (my last year teaching), he allowed the cycling club, no questions asked.

By the way, "principal teacher" is the original meaning of the term "principal".

Jun 17, 2021 - 5:33:47 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

58214 posts since 10/5/2013

Geez Paul,, those soopers weren’t all that keen on pinko anti-oil cyclers and leftist activist folkies, eh?

Jun 17, 2021 - 10:19:56 PM

Paul R

Canada

14694 posts since 1/28/2010

quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97

Geez Paul,, those soopers weren’t all that keen on pinko anti-oil cyclers and leftist activist folkies, eh?


I think the farther up the ladder they went, the weirder they got.

Trustees were worse.

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