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Apr 16, 2021 - 9:09:52 AM
11 posts since 4/15/2021

Bought this banjo looks like a orpheum pot. Has a heel carving like a orpheum . A inlay on headstock is one used in a post at banjohangouts. Is it a orpheum. Head stock does not match a orpheum. I think tail piece is not original. Would appreciate your help.

Edited by - Texasbanjo on 04/17/2021 08:34:49

Apr 16, 2021 - 9:54:03 AM

280 posts since 4/14/2014

Photos?

Apr 16, 2021 - 10:16:32 AM

11 posts since 4/15/2021

Having a problem getting photos sorry


Apr 16, 2021 - 11:00:31 AM

11 posts since 4/15/2021

Sorry problems with getting photos added.

Apr 16, 2021 - 7:47:13 PM

11 posts since 4/15/2021

More photos




Apr 17, 2021 - 8:11:13 AM

11 posts since 4/15/2021

more photos


Apr 17, 2021 - 8:45:31 AM

3721 posts since 3/28/2008

I can't answer your questions, but man, what a beauty!

Apr 17, 2021 - 10:09:58 AM

13896 posts since 10/30/2008

Very intersting instrument. I don't know the brand. I can make a couple of observations.

The geared 5th string peg is post 1960s, after-market addition.

The 4 tuners in the peghead are Grover Hercules. They were considered "good" geared tuners and used by a number of brands in the 1920s, including Gibson. Hard to tell if they are original to the banjo, but they're old.

Very nice wood, metal parts and trim on this instrument. I suspect it's a real brand, much better than a "mail order catalog" instrument.

Someone here willl recognize it.

Apr 17, 2021 - 3:39:56 PM

1451 posts since 2/9/2007

Nice.
I doubt that it ever had an Orpheum label, but I'd bet it came out of the same factory which made the Orpheum, along with many other brands -- Rettberg and Lange.

Apr 17, 2021 - 3:48:42 PM

11 posts since 4/15/2021

Thanks for your help and your time. cintidon

Apr 17, 2021 - 3:53:39 PM

11 posts since 4/15/2021

quote:thanks for your help and your time your right on geared 5th peg.i think grover tuners are original also.
Originally posted by The Old Timer

Very intersting instrument. I don't know the brand. I can make a couple of observations.

The geared 5th string peg is post 1960s, after-market addition.

The 4 tuners in the peghead are Grover Hercules. They were considered "good" geared tuners and used by a number of brands in the 1920s, including Gibson. Hard to tell if they are original to the banjo, but they're old.

Very nice wood, metal parts and trim on this instrument. I suspect it's a real brand, much better than a "mail order catalog" instrument.

Someone here willl recognize it.


Apr 17, 2021 - 7:26:24 PM

1162 posts since 3/21/2013

nice heel carving!

Apr 17, 2021 - 8:11:48 PM

1729 posts since 1/13/2012

It looks like a very late Buckbee, or a very early Rettberg & Lange (who were Buckbee's successor).

Apr 18, 2021 - 5:24:27 AM

4953 posts since 3/22/2008

Andy FitzGibbon jiggled my mind.
I believe that your banjo is a very rare (these days) Rettberg & Lange Manhattan brand banjo. Attached are a couple Bruno 1902 supplemental catalog pages that I have on CD.  These are apparently still spun rim banjos but in the same catalog the wood rim was introduced.  See more (only 3 photos allowed).
See next post also


Edited by - beezaboy on 04/18/2021 05:39:50

Apr 18, 2021 - 5:35:08 AM

4953 posts since 3/22/2008

Attached are a few photos of the only Manhattan banjo I've ever been able to get into my R&L file.
The most striking feature on your banjo (for me) is the rim cap. Wow, it's like a piece of fine furniture. Couldn't take my eyes away from admiring it!


Apr 18, 2021 - 5:43:45 AM

4953 posts since 3/22/2008

Now here is what I think is the R&L wood rim intro in the 1902 Bruno catalog although they are calling the banjo a "Bruno".  So maybe technically your banjo is a "Bruno Orpheum".  In this catalog was the first time I'd seen the name "Orpheum" attached to an R&L banjo.  The R&L Orpheum with the patented elevated on supports tone ring was not introduced until April 1903.


Edited by - beezaboy on 04/18/2021 05:53:44

Apr 18, 2021 - 6:22:15 AM

8447 posts since 8/28/2013

To me, this banjo isn't even close to Orpheum products, which had elevated arch tops and a flared skirt. It does have some Lange features, though.

The headstock is similar in shape to one used by Gaetano Puntilillo, but quite a bit later. I also believe the neck mounting hardware is a later type; it's not the usual metal triangle with wooden wedges used on so many earlier banjos. The tuners are also later, although they could have been changed. I definitely question the 1902 date suggested; I think it was made more recently--teens or even twenties.

Apr 18, 2021 - 7:27:53 AM

1729 posts since 1/13/2012

The headstock shape was used extensively by Buckbee before 1900. Tuners, tailpiece, and neck brace are all later parts (the three metal parts most often changed or replaced).

Apr 18, 2021 - 8:27:19 AM

4953 posts since 3/22/2008

The OP inquired about the featured banjo: "is it a orpheum".
No.
IMO it is a Manhattan by Rettberg & Lange.
Orpheum was R&L's house brand. The Orpheum tone chamber was founded on William B. Farmers 1903 patent which the featured banjo lacks.
Manhattan was R&L's line-up of for-the-trade private labels or unbranded banjos for jobbers, department stores, music stores, etc.
See attached R&L factory facade.


Edited by - beezaboy on 04/18/2021 08:41:02

Apr 18, 2021 - 8:27:19 AM

4953 posts since 3/22/2008

The OP inquired about the featured banjo: "is it a orpheum".
No.
IMO it is a Manhattan by Rettberg & Lange.
Orpheum was R&L's house brand. The Orpheum tone chamber was founded on William B. Farmers 1903 patent which the featured banjo lacks.
Manhattan was R&L's line-up of for-the-trade private labels or unbranded banjos for jobbers, department stores, music stores, etc.
See attached R&L factory facade.


Edited by - beezaboy on 04/18/2021 08:41:02

Apr 18, 2021 - 12:25:35 PM

8447 posts since 8/28/2013

quote:
Originally posted by Andy FitzGibbon

The headstock shape was used extensively by Buckbee before 1900. Tuners, tailpiece, and neck brace are all later parts (the three metal parts most often changed or replaced).


I beg to differ on the headstock shape. To me it looks just a bit different than the common R & L shape.

Then again, I am having some vision issues these days.

Apr 18, 2021 - 2:26:56 PM

11 posts since 4/15/2021

Thank you beezaboy for a lot of good information and posting pictures it has a lot of things in common with manhattan. quote:
Originally posted by beezaboy

The OP inquired about the featured banjo: "is it a orpheum".
No.
IMO it is a Manhattan by Rettberg & Lange.
Orpheum was R&L's house brand. The Orpheum tone chamber was founded on William B. Farmers 1903 patent which the featured banjo lacks.
Manhattan was R&L's line-up of for-the-trade private labels or unbranded banjos for jobbers, department stores, music stores, etc.
See attached R&L factory facade.

 


Apr 18, 2021 - 2:32:49 PM

11 posts since 4/15/2021

qThanks for your help i had one other person to say the neck hardware was changed. uote:
Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

To me, this banjo isn't even close to Orpheum products, which had elevated arch tops and a flared skirt. It does have some Lange features, though.

The headstock is similar in shape to one used by Gaetano Puntilillo, but quite a bit later. I also believe the neck mounting hardware is a later type; it's not the usual metal triangle with wooden wedges used on so many earlier banjos. The tuners are also later, although they could have been changed. I definitely question the 1902 date suggested; I think it was made more recently--teens or even twenties.


Apr 18, 2021 - 2:39:02 PM

11 posts since 4/15/2021

quoThanks Andy for the information that is very true.
Originally posted by Andy FitzGibbon

The headstock shape was used extensively by Buckbee before 1900. Tuners, tailpiece, and neck brace are all later parts (the three metal parts most often changed or replaced).


Apr 18, 2021 - 2:52:28 PM

11 posts since 4/15/2021

quote:Thanks  Dan looks like other post say the same thing. 
Originally posted by Dan Gellert

Nice.
I doubt that it ever had an Orpheum label, but I'd bet it came out of the same factory which made the Orpheum, along with many other brands -- Rettberg and Lange.


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