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Apr 15, 2021 - 10:43:11 AM
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93 posts since 9/11/2017

Last evening I received a Hangout generated email on behalf of a potential buyer:

This is Mr. Banjo. I want to buy your ITEM that you have for sale.

No address. I emailed back in an hour (I would have done this immediately under most circumstances) with my PayPal address so that this buyer could pay expediently and I could ready his package for shipping. I also requested his address for that very purpose. Nine o'clock the next morning- no response- meaning no payment or address was provided.

Although I am now retired- I am still quite active and time is important to me. It is a 24-mile round trip to the post office which interrupts an hour in a day spent on painting, mowing three acres, or otherwise activities related to maintenance and certainly not inactivity.

The notification of purchasing intent occurred at 12:17am. My response was posted at 1:17am following an elderly trip to the bathroom. Roughly nine hours had elapsed since the initial email.

My response at 9:12am:
Mr. Banjo Man; For this to go out today I will need your payment and address.

The previous email (mine of 1:17am) gave you my PayPal address as my email. I have but a small window of errand time as my day is fully committed. I have one package from the Hangout to be mailed- otherwise yours will require an additional 24 mile round trip. Please promptly pay in the next few minutes so I can mail this out to you today. Thanks!

Mr. Banjo Man's response at 9:53am was this:

No thank you. I'm going to pass on this. Although I appreciate your fully committed day- I don't appreciate waking up to an email giving me minutes to pay.

REALLY??? And email me when any regular guy should be asleep?

My reply was Biblical- that a tentmaker is worth his wages and essentially to go back to sleep, knowing that the ITEM will sell, but not to him by any stretch. Go to the ant thou sluggard... If my email offended thee you have quite a thin veneer methinks.

Having spent my childhood in the late 1950's and early 1960's- I learned that a commitment is just that, and my word is a valuable commodity. Having retired as a career nurse- I also know that both work and one's time is also an asset to be taken seriously.

Now my suggestion to the Hangout is to provide a form response in which the potential buyer and seller can relay needed information at one time and in an efficient manner. This Git 'Er Done approach will improve communication, speed of delivery, and insure more revenue for advertisements at the best interest of all parties.

Comments?

Apr 15, 2021 - 11:11:02 AM

291 posts since 4/14/2017

Although you generally meet much nicer people in general on the Hangout than elsewhere, it's still the Wild West when it comes to making a deal. Sellers answer you whenever they want or not at all, and although you may wait hours-or days-to get a response, you can lose a deal you have been already told you have if you don't get back to them within an hour. Years ago, on this forum, I sent a guy a check for a banjo, then the seller got cold feet and decided to keep the banjo. Returning the cashiers check to may bank cost me forty dollars.(The solution for that, I found out, is to make it out to the seller and the put "or (your name)". Anything goes, pretty much. I should add that I've never been completely ripped off or required the intervention of Hangout staff. Maybe it's just the semi Wild West.

Edited by - stelldeergibber on 04/15/2021 11:13:22

Apr 15, 2021 - 11:12:10 AM
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Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

25816 posts since 8/3/2003

I'm sorry that this happened to you. Unfortunately, the Hangout cannot be responsible for what a member does off the Hangout. We can take care of what happens here, but once they are off line, there's no way I know of we can force people to be prompt or finalize a sale if they decide against it.

Although we usually say buyer beware, in this case it's seller beware.

Perhaps others have a different idea and will share their thoughts with you.

The only one who can change the way sales are handled on the Hangout is Eric and perhaps he has some ideas different than mine. His, of course, would prevail since he's the boss.

Apr 15, 2021 - 11:45:42 AM
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93 posts since 9/11/2017

Thank you so much Sherry! This is outstanding and a testimony to receive a moderator response so quickly! I too have served as a moderator on other non-banjo related forums, so I appreciate all that you can bring into this discussion.

Without seeing other member’s responses- I can certainly say that this is NOT typical (I have found the banjo community to be warm and courteous in general), but nonetheless we all can benefit- buyers, sellers, and the Marketplace by establishing not just an acceptable or understood decorum- but perhaps one more regimented.

A Pre-Sale form for buyers and sellers would provide the necessary disclosures for a safe and efficient selling experience. I have enjoyed the friendships and dialogues borne from my selling and purchasing experiences, and that needs not to change. After all- the Hangout is a community of banjo enthusiasts of all backgrounds.

What does need to change is that the mechanism between buyer and seller should be more responsible, contractual, and authentic or intent driven. By contacting the buyer- your intent to purchase is indeed sincere and earnest and documented as such, as is the responsibilities of the seller to fulfill his side of a mutual agreement. That is where a Pre-Sale form would be beneficial.

A transaction should, in most cases, be prompt in its end-to-end course with a positive outcome. Thanks again for your response Sherry!

Apr 15, 2021 - 11:50:55 AM

ChunoTheDog

Canada

749 posts since 8/9/2019

From my experience buying and selling on here, there are lots of tirekickers and lowballers, people that waste other's time.

However, the reach that BHO classifieds offers offsets the bozos. All my sales/purchases have been prompt and timely.

Sorry to hear you fell on a bad apple.

Apr 15, 2021 - 11:52:04 AM

577 posts since 3/9/2013

I’ve sold a lot on the hangout and have had great dealings. My answer to this is he hadn’t committed to buying until the payment hits your account. No big deal. It’s still for sale and you can entertain other buyers. He wants it he’ll get to paying and if he’s first then great, if not he doesn’t get it. If he takes 3 days to pay and your window to town is 3 more days then so be it. I’m old school also and my word is pretty tight but not everyone is thinking about banjos 24/7. He might of gotten busy. Non issue in my mind.

Apr 15, 2021 - 11:54:20 AM

93 posts since 9/11/2017

Thanks Sean! I do not want to be a gunslinger in the Wild West. If you ever travel to Cimarron, New Mexico- the Saint James saloon is riddled with bullets! Big calibers too!
At the very least- time limits can or should be placed on the buyer-seller response as a gauge of intent and forthrightness. It is an easy implementation and would flesh out the responsibilities of both parties.

Apr 15, 2021 - 12:01:59 PM

93 posts since 9/11/2017

Yes; I understand where you are coming from Richard. However, any purchase can be successfully delayed or allowed a proper mulling over by the potential buyer if he communicates that is what he wants to do. To email after midnight that he will purchase an item and then complain when called to payment after a reasonable time is simply rude and irresponsible. Yes should mean yes, just as it is sold when the money hits your account. That is a given.

Apr 15, 2021 - 12:05:15 PM

93 posts since 9/11/2017

Thank you Antoine! Yes- my experiences have been excellent for the most part. I enjoy selling here far more than on eBay or the MG Experience. I just am looking for ways to improve the process which simply may not be needed.

Apr 15, 2021 - 12:18:51 PM

859 posts since 9/6/2019

quote:
Originally posted by mgbbrown

Yes; I understand where you are coming from Richard. However, any purchase can be successfully delayed or allowed a proper mulling over by the potential buyer if he communicates that is what he wants to do. To email after midnight that he will purchase an item and then complain when called to payment after a reasonable time is simply rude and irresponsible. Yes should mean yes, just as it is sold when the money hits your account. That is a given.


Maybe the guy just got off work and messaged you thinking you would be asleep and not respond until the following morning. You are talking about the middle of the night after all. I've purchased no end of things from people online where I messaged them after I got off a swing shift and the next day we set up the arrangements and made the sale. 

Apr 15, 2021 - 12:20:31 PM

1326 posts since 5/19/2018

I sell a few things here, I buy a fair amount.

I was taught as a child that a commitment is a commitment. Once you say yes, it’s a done deal.

I have a pretty hard time with people who are wish-washy and change their minds. To me it’s a lack of character.

To be upfront, never had any issues on any level with any Hangout transaction, which is why I like dealing with people here.

Apr 15, 2021 - 12:20:52 PM

93 posts since 9/11/2017

Thanks Bill! I see your point and it is indeed a good one.

Apr 15, 2021 - 12:27:05 PM

93 posts since 9/11/2017

You and I are of the same cloth Alvin! I too have had a generally good experience, but my efforts are only to make it better for everyone. A man’s yes should mean yes, and he should pay equally as promptly unless it is understood between the parties that time may be involved which is quite understandable. An earnest response does reflect character.

Apr 15, 2021 - 12:32:07 PM
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57117 posts since 12/14/2005

Sounds like a scam, since it mentions a non-specific "item".

Had one of those, a few years back.
Couldn't find anybody on the HangOut by that name, figured it was a robot, just looking for items for sale, and sending a generic text.
He also asked what my lowest price woukld be.
Since it seemed that he had not actually LOOKED AT my ad, I replied that the item would be worth MORE than $150, but some of the finish had worn off the top, where some college girls had leaned a little too hard on the kielbasa.

The AD clearly started that it was a SCRATCHAVARIOUS VIOLIN, and I was asking $75.

His reply was all about having his agent pick up the item,.
Anybody who doesn't notice that the price doubled, and doesn't know that people seldom- if EVER- play a violin with a SAUSAGE, had not read the original ad.

I jerked him around for a week or so, and he eventually gave up.

Apr 15, 2021 - 12:36:26 PM
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93 posts since 9/11/2017

Mike; I thought the same thing since his response was so non-specific; but he did pop up in the membership list. His avatar had him just sitting on his behind...

Apr 15, 2021 - 12:57:59 PM

93 posts since 9/11/2017

Thanks Bill! That did occur to me as I did shift work as a nurse. However- the response was so sparse and without information that was necessary at a minimum for the transaction to proceed. That is why a formed ad response with that supplies would be helpful.

Apr 15, 2021 - 2:35:54 PM

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

25816 posts since 8/3/2003

Tony, if you've read the rules and guidelines for classifieds, you'll notice this last sentence:
"The Banjo Hangout cannot assume any responsibility for the transactions that occur here." That would also mean any transactions that don't occur in a timely manner, I presume. And, again, unless the administrator decides to change the rules, then that sentence stands.

Again, I'm so sorry your deal didn't go through as you hoped and I sincerely hope another buyer will contact you and your negotiations will be much more pleasant.

Apr 15, 2021 - 2:50:05 PM
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93 posts since 9/11/2017

Sherry; This is not about a sale so much as it is about appropriate behavior and personal responsibility. I am truly gracious and understanding, and want others to convey true cooperation in this community, which includes proper buying and selling decorum.


 

Apr 15, 2021 - 6:15 PM

93 posts since 9/11/2017

I indeed have good news and the legacy of fine folks on a fine platform shall continue. The buyer emailed me this evening and was so convicted of his behavior that he spent a page outlining the “rest of the story” if you will. His son had been sick and he was up all night with him. My email came right after his son had fallen asleep, so with a a night of no sleep- I too would have been rather short. We are now of one accord. Once again- communication has proven paramount. I too apologized for any shortcomings on my part. I still hope that this discussion has served to highlight the importance of communication between both the buying and selling parties. It will serve to properly improve mine .

Apr 15, 2021 - 7:37:41 PM

93 posts since 9/11/2017

quote:
Originally posted by mgbbrown

Sherry; This is not about a sale so much as it is about appropriate behavior and personal responsibility. I am truly gracious and understanding, and want others to convey true cooperation in this community, which includes proper buying and selling decorum.


Apr 15, 2021 - 7:50:37 PM

256 posts since 8/4/2006

Let it go. You and the responders have already spent way too much time on this issue which will repeat itself in the future to both buyers and sellers alike. You can certainly get wise counsel here; however, despite any safeguards you implement, there are no guarantees.

“Dishonest people never succeed.....
They just show their true colors and teach us a good lesson.”

Apr 15, 2021 - 7:52:40 PM

93 posts since 9/11/2017

Bob; It was finished until your reply...

Apr 16, 2021 - 7:02:34 AM

KCJones

USA

1488 posts since 8/30/2012

Frankly, I wouldn't want to deal with either of you.

The buyer seems annoying if a simple email asking for payment/address is enough to drive him away from the sale. A tire kicker, most likely. Probably wanted to negotiate on price. Not really commited, but implied that he was. I don't like that.

The seller seems annoying with the pushy "pay me now" attitude. Pressure sales tactics are simply unacceptable to me. If a seller pushes me to make a decision before I'm ready, I walk away immediately. There's no reason to deal with that nonsense in this day and age, there's simply too many options for buying products at the pace I want to move. 8 hours elapsed between the initial email and the response. That, to me, is not much time at all, especially when those 8 hours are the dead of night. Who cares if it goes out today, or tomorrow? What's your rush?

You mention a 'commitment'. I see no commitment from either party. A person emailed you about an ad, and you assumed that a sale was made when no sale was made. That's your mistake, not his. You asked for payment, and he said "nevermind".

I don't see any issue here at all. A tire kicker interacted with a pushy salesman. That's no problem, it's just life.

Edited by - KCJones on 04/16/2021 07:08:12

Apr 16, 2021 - 7:49:49 AM

93 posts since 9/11/2017

I was no saint in my response so if you read my reply- things had a mutual and great ending praise God.

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