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Organ harvesting...I have a vested interest in knowing...

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Mar 6, 2021 - 4:41:07 AM
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32982 posts since 3/5/2008

I have just seen a report...about forced organ harvesting..in another country..

N there may be an action to prevent folks from the U.K.to go to get thos "harvested"..
Organs...

The next question that I have...is..is there a country that exports harvested organs?

Seems there might be a booming bidness...selling. n .. sending special organ harvesting containers..to a country willing to do so...


As most folks here know...I have had a heart transplant..
N..to date all I have been told about the donor....is...
The heart is smaller ..younger...n..was incarserated.... :0/

N the donor wish it to be unknoowen...

I am not claiming fowel play..
But it dose cause me to wonder...

For the record... I have all ways been a donor..on me drivers lic. Evah since that program has started..

But I would hope that I was ..finished with..it....First.... :0/

Thankyou..for ..kind..responses..in advance...

Mar 6, 2021 - 5:43:01 AM
Players Union Member

DC5

USA

18177 posts since 6/30/2015

Where there is a need, or a desire, there will always be those willing to acquire by any means necessary. The greater the need/desire, and the more scarce the object, the greater and deeper the corruption. It is illegal in the U.S. to sell organs, they must be donated, but you know damn well there is an underground economy based on organ sales. A wealthy person willing to pay millions for a kidney will find a broker willing to exploit a person of lesser means to donating one. If my family was poor, and I could come up with $100,000 to help them by donating my kidney, I would certainly do so. I can see this being a huge business in poorer countries with even more corrupt systems. Heck, if I could guarantee the welfare of my wife and children I might even be willing to donate my heart before I'm done with it.

Mar 6, 2021 - 5:59:17 AM

3243 posts since 4/22/2018

My wife worked on a liver ward in the 1990’s. She’s just told me that although transplants for U.K. citizens are free, people could pay to have a lower grade liver transplant ie a liver that wouldn’t cut the mustard to go into a patient who was waiting on the U.K. transplant list. A good example of this was a well known alcoholic football player, George Best, with his lifestyle he wasn’t eligible for a grade A liver as he continued to drink, however he could, and did, pay for a grade C liver. Apparently, there was a a steady stream of people flown over from a Middle Eastern country where a problem with a vaccination scheme meant people having a hepatitis vaccine actually had their livers damaged - their government paid to fly them over and have a grade C transplant.

Regarding our own donor system, it’s now an opt out scheme so almost sort of mandatory -mwhich is a good thing in my eyes. Also, like Dave, if my wife or kids needed my any of my parts, they would have them in a shot whilst I was alive. Donating to a stranger, now I’d have to not need them before I’d be prepared to do that.

Mar 6, 2021 - 1:45:39 PM

Bill Rogers (Moderator)

USA

24584 posts since 6/25/2005

This is on the edge of politics, so keep it on topic.

Mar 6, 2021 - 2:41:51 PM
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3089 posts since 10/17/2009

Need an organ

Mar 6, 2021 - 3:24:29 PM
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banjo bill-e

Tuvalu

10839 posts since 2/22/2007

---" forced organ harvesting..in another country.."

Not surprised and I would expect this from any country who sees it's citizens as nothing more than disposable assets of the state. Talking to you, China, among others, especially with their Uygur population which is suffering a planned genocide right now. The idea that individuals have inherent value of their own does not compute.
But Dave is spot on about black markets, which will always exist anywhere that willing buyers and sellers are prohibited from legal exchange. So everyone involved in the transplant process earns money from it except that most essential donor, who gets zip.

Mar 7, 2021 - 2:18:35 AM

3392 posts since 4/29/2012

quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

---" forced organ harvesting..in another country.."

Not surprised and I would expect this from any country who sees it's citizens as nothing more than disposable assets of the state. Talking to you, China, among others, especially with their Uygur population which is suffering a planned genocide right now. The idea that individuals have inherent value of their own does not compute.
But Dave is spot on about black markets, which will always exist anywhere that willing buyers and sellers are prohibited from legal exchange. So everyone involved in the transplant process earns money from it except that most essential donor, who gets zip.


So how would this market between 'willing buyers and sellers' work ? You can't just put your kidney on Craig's List or Ebay. We are mostly thinking kidneys here - where you have two but can live a perfectly normal life with one. What about other  transplantable organs which you can survive without, but will no longer lead a normal life ; corneas, hands ?

Edited by - AndrewD on 03/07/2021 02:19:36

Mar 7, 2021 - 3:16:35 AM

1847 posts since 8/7/2008

I planted various body parts last year. No signs yet but I hope to be harvesting a crop of toes and fingers very soon.

Mar 7, 2021 - 4:57:08 AM
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2065 posts since 2/12/2009

I planted very many 40 plus years ago when I worked for a time as a gravedigger !

Mar 7, 2021 - 5:09:20 AM

figmo59

USA

32982 posts since 3/5/2008

quote:
Originally posted by AndrewD
quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

---" forced organ harvesting..in another country.."

Not surprised and I would expect this from any country who sees it's citizens as nothing more than disposable assets of the state. Talking to you, China, among others, especially with their Uygur population which is suffering a planned genocide right now. The idea that individuals have inherent value of their own does not compute.
But Dave is spot on about black markets, which will always exist anywhere that willing buyers and sellers are prohibited from legal exchange. So everyone involved in the transplant process earns money from it except that most essential donor, who gets zip.


So how would this market between 'willing buyers and sellers' work ? You can't just put your kidney on Craig's List or Ebay. We are mostly thinking kidneys here - where you have two but can live a perfectly normal life with one. What about other  transplantable organs which you can survive without, but will no longer lead a normal life ; corneas, hands ?


Andy...

Are you good with ..Forcing.. a person to give up...an organ becose they can survive..

Without it..?

Mar 7, 2021 - 5:48:04 AM
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15134 posts since 12/2/2005

quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

So everyone involved in the transplant process earns money from it except that most essential donor, who gets zip.


Depending upon the organ in question, the essential donor DOES in fact get zip. As in, zipped into a body bag.

Mar 7, 2021 - 6:15:38 AM
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Players Union Member

DC5

USA

18177 posts since 6/30/2015

With stem cell cloning research, we may someday be able to grow our own organs from our own DNA, thus reducing rejection. Imagine growing your own heart, liver or kidney that is 100% compatible with you and no donor needs to die first.

Mar 8, 2021 - 12:56:47 AM

3243 posts since 4/22/2018

quote:
Originally posted by DC5

With stem cell cloning research, we may someday be able to grow our own organs from our own DNA, thus reducing rejection. Imagine growing your own heart, liver or kidney that is 100% compatible with you and no donor needs to die first.


That would be a wonderful thing.  I have a friend & neighbour who received a kidney from his sister as his had both failed.  Sadly his body is rejecting it and he's got to have it removed.

Mar 8, 2021 - 2:08:36 AM

3392 posts since 4/29/2012

quote:
Originally posted by figmo59
quote:
Originally posted by AndrewD
quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

---" forced organ harvesting..in another country.."

Not surprised and I would expect this from any country who sees it's citizens as nothing more than disposable assets of the state. Talking to you, China, among others, especially with their Uygur population which is suffering a planned genocide right now. The idea that individuals have inherent value of their own does not compute.
But Dave is spot on about black markets, which will always exist anywhere that willing buyers and sellers are prohibited from legal exchange. So everyone involved in the transplant process earns money from it except that most essential donor, who gets zip.


So how would this market between 'willing buyers and sellers' work ? You can't just put your kidney on Craig's List or Ebay. We are mostly thinking kidneys here - where you have two but can live a perfectly normal life with one. What about other  transplantable organs which you can survive without, but will no longer lead a normal life ; corneas, hands ?


Andy...

Are you good with ..Forcing.. a person to give up...an organ becose they can survive..

Without it..?

 

 


And you decided that this might be my opinion how exactly ? From a response to Bill's post suggesting that organ donation was an entirely suitable candidate for a free and unregulated commercial market ? 

Mar 8, 2021 - 12:55:39 PM
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m06

England

9755 posts since 10/5/2006
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I carry an organ donor card. Does that make me a 'disposable asset of the state'? When I pop my clogs the dedicated, skilled, caring professionals of our NHS can harvest away to their hearts content with my full permission if it gives someone, who's still breathing but sick, a chance to live a fuller, happier life.

Why let that potential go up a crematorium chimney just to settle as ash on nearby parked cars?

Edited by - m06 on 03/08/2021 12:58:44

Mar 8, 2021 - 1:36:51 PM

3392 posts since 4/29/2012

There is an alternative. Read Kazuo Ishiguro's 'Never Let Me Go'.

Mar 8, 2021 - 1:51:49 PM

3967 posts since 12/6/2009
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Mar 8, 2021 - 1:58:34 PM

ChunoTheDog

Canada

714 posts since 8/9/2019

A friend of mine used to work the graveyard shift doing security at the morgue in a huge hospital.
I asked him why dead people needed guarding as they're not going anywhere.

He replied that their organs were worth a lot of $$ and that warranted 24/7 security.

So, presumably this is a huge and big money market, both legal and black market.

Couple years ago there were many news stories out of China about young children having their eyes stolen (for lack of better term) for sale on the black market.

Mar 8, 2021 - 2:15:48 PM

2198 posts since 3/29/2008
Online Now

Can an organ be transplanted more than once? I mean if a heart transplant recipient pops his clogs, is that heart good for a third go?

Mar 8, 2021 - 2:17:35 PM

figmo59

USA

32982 posts since 3/5/2008

quote:
Originally posted by AndrewD
quote:
Originally posted by figmo59
quote:
Originally posted by AndrewD
quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

---" forced organ harvesting..in another country.."

Not surprised and I would expect this from any country who sees it's citizens as nothing more than disposable assets of the state. Talking to you, China, among others, especially with their Uygur population which is suffering a planned genocide right now. The idea that individuals have inherent value of their own does not compute.
But Dave is spot on about black markets, which will always exist anywhere that willing buyers and sellers are prohibited from legal exchange. So everyone involved in the transplant process earns money from it except that most essential donor, who gets zip.


So how would this market between 'willing buyers and sellers' work ? You can't just put your kidney on Craig's List or Ebay. We are mostly thinking kidneys here - where you have two but can live a perfectly normal life with one. What about other  transplantable organs which you can survive without, but will no longer lead a normal life ; corneas, hands ?


Andy...

Are you good with ..Forcing.. a person to give up...an organ becose they can survive..

Without it..?

 

 


And you decided that this might be my opinion how exactly ? From a response to Bill's post suggesting that organ donation was an entirely suitable candidate for a free and unregulated commercial market ? 


Andy.. I have not decided anything...

I asked you a question..that you may have sidestepped..by not answering..

Look at the first line of this post..

It speaks about..forced harvesting...

Mar 8, 2021 - 2:23:58 PM
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figmo59

USA

32982 posts since 3/5/2008

quote:
Originally posted by Edthebanjo

Can an organ be transplanted more than once? I mean if a heart transplant recipient pops his clogs, is that heart good for a third go?


Heh...

I asked that very question of me Dr. 

N...he told me a viable heart was a viable heart so... yes...

 

Fwiw...I asked after me transplant...

Mar 8, 2021 - 2:33:24 PM
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figmo59

USA

32982 posts since 3/5/2008

quote:
Originally posted by overhere

youtube.com/watch?v=DTP9__vi3d4


Do you realise how evil you are fer posting a YouTube video...!?

 

Don't worry some folks here will explain it to ya... ;0)

Mar 8, 2021 - 2:37:54 PM
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2198 posts since 3/29/2008
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by figmo59
quote:
Originally posted by Edthebanjo

Can an organ be transplanted more than once? I mean if a heart transplant recipient pops his clogs, is that heart good for a third go?


Heh...

I asked that very question of me Dr. 

N...he told me a viable heart was a viable heart so... yes...

 

Fwiw...I asked after me transplant...


Cool!

Something interesting I learned was that when you have a kidney transplant, usually they don't bother taking out the bad kidney, and just put in a good one next to it. There was also a story about a guy who had about 9 kidneys in him from just repeatedly having new ones put in after the old ones failed..... I always hoped his name was Stu.

Mar 8, 2021 - 2:38:05 PM
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figmo59

USA

32982 posts since 3/5/2008

quote:
Originally posted by m06

I carry an organ donor card. Does that make me a 'disposable asset of the state'? When I pop my clogs the dedicated, skilled, caring professionals of our NHS can harvest away to their hearts content with my full permission if it gives someone, who's still breathing but sick, a chance to live a fuller, happier life.

Why let that potential go up a crematorium chimney just to settle as ash on nearby parked cars?


I agree...

If I ain't usin it..n ..I am done with it..you can have it...

 

If the last act I do on this Earth..helps someone...

Well..I'm good with that.. :0)

Mar 8, 2021 - 2:45:59 PM

2198 posts since 3/29/2008
Online Now

Me too, I registered to be an organ donor quite some time ago. If I'm not using it, then help yourself as far as I'm concerned. Good luck with the liver though... that's taken a beating in the past...

Mar 8, 2021 - 2:47:31 PM

banjo bill-e

Tuvalu

10839 posts since 2/22/2007

m06 asks---" Does that make me a 'disposable asset of the state'? --"

Well, not unless the UK has progressed even farther down the road to totalitarianism than I had feared. You haven't moved to China, have you Mike? North Korea? Eritrea?

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