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How careful should one BE, about with whom one associates?

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Feb 28, 2021 - 8:42:54 PM
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56988 posts since 12/14/2005

Saw this on Facebook:

*********************************************

Feb 28, 2021 - 9:31:23 PM

donc

Canada

6539 posts since 2/9/2010

This was an excellent lesson. It reminds me of more than one example in recent history. The first one is the McCarthy ivestigations that caught fire in the early 1950's. Many people had their reputations and careers ruined by unfounded rumours and problems that really didn't exist in the first place. I can site a few more that have surfaced in recent months but they would also qualify as poly ticks.

Mar 1, 2021 - 12:40:24 AM

Paul R

Canada

14203 posts since 1/28/2010

One effective tactic to cast shade is the "I'm not saying they are, but what if" comment, or the "we need to have an investigation" ploy. Say it often enough and people think there's something going on.

Mar 1, 2021 - 5:27:02 AM
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wizofos

USA

5905 posts since 8/19/2012

After spending 45 years in corporate culture and trying as hard as possible to stay out of office politics it seems to me that forming investigative committees and establishing research projects is a good way to put off making a decision and appearing to be busy but doing as little as possible.
As Paul R said "we need to have an investigation" ploy. Say it often enough and people think there's something going on."  If you say it often enough and from as high up the food chain as possible people think something is happening.

Mar 1, 2021 - 5:32:46 AM

6593 posts since 9/5/2006

just saying it don't make it so,,now if they turn someone into a frog ,,you might have a case

Mar 1, 2021 - 5:39 AM

figmo59

USA

32963 posts since 3/5/2008

Bravo..!

Mar 1, 2021 - 5:46:24 AM

figmo59

USA

32963 posts since 3/5/2008

It is easy to teach folks that collateral dammage...is ok...
If..yer the winner...

Excepting ...or wishing harm on folks..is never good...

I know..I know...
Never say ..never...right... :0/

Mar 1, 2021 - 8:42:50 AM
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Owen

Canada

8238 posts since 6/5/2011

I think the "we need to have an investigation" ploy is more often than not an acknowledgement that where there's smoke there's fire, but "we" think it best to diddle around and give plenty of notice so that butts that need to get covered can get covered.    I'm not sayin' I right, but what if....  devil

Edit: To answer Mike's ^^ question.... on a scale of 0 - 10, about an 8.5  ..... depending on the situation, of course.

Edited by - Owen on 03/01/2021 08:46:31

Mar 1, 2021 - 9:48:22 AM

Paul R

Canada

14203 posts since 1/28/2010

No, Owen, in the last while it's been used to smear people, but if I give the examples I mean it would be obviously political. Convince your group that something's been going on when it hasn't. Fiction can be compelling.

Mar 1, 2021 - 10:11:46 AM

Owen

Canada

8238 posts since 6/5/2011

Yes, indeed Paul, that's why I put "more often than not." Without doing some/further/any research to come up with a tally, I think I'll stand pat.   wink

Mar 1, 2021 - 10:28:04 AM

54 posts since 3/2/2013

How careful does one have to BE about with whom one associates with?...Theres a very old well known book that is rarely payed heed to anymore that says, be Very careful about with whom you associate with.

Mar 1, 2021 - 10:30:14 AM

banjo bill-e

Tuvalu

10833 posts since 2/22/2007

OK, I think that is a flawed exercise because any student being told that they were a witch--which was determined by the teacher, not them----would automatically fail, as any group that they formed would include at least one witch, which was them. Most illogical, says Spock.

Mar 1, 2021 - 12:19:11 PM
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11702 posts since 1/15/2005

I'm with the kids as I'm confused too. That sounds like a rather dumb exercise, as I really don't know what the point was. At least certainly flawed, like bill-e said.

As to the bigger question, certainly one should be careful about whom they associate with. That said I know a number of people that I speak to and am cordial with but make a point not to spend a lot (or any unless I have to) time with.

Mar 1, 2021 - 12:51:03 PM
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DC5

USA

18112 posts since 6/30/2015

quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

OK, I think that is a flawed exercise because any student being told that they were a witch--which was determined by the teacher, not them----would automatically fail, as any group that they formed would include at least one witch, which was them. Most illogical, says Spock.


since none of them were witches, it doesn't matter.  However, I would alter the experiment and have them draw papers from a hat that say witch or normal.  Of course, they all say normal.  It introduces the apearance of randomness.

When my son was in 3rd or 4th grade they learned about the Underground Railroad.  For a week of the lesson all the students were slaves and had to try and escape.  Teachers and staff were part of the railroad.  If a student picked a teacher that was part of the UR they would get a card they carried initialled.  They needed a certain number of initials in order to get freedom.  If a teacher was not part of the UR they took the students card and tore it up.  The student would then be back at square 1 with a new card.  Each day the teachers and staff took different roles, so someone on the UR one day might not be the next day.  The interesting part of the lesson to me was that some students never tried to escape as they didn't want their card torn up, and others tried again and again.  I mentioned this lesson to an African American teacher I worked with and she was highly offended that the school would do such a thing.  I thought it was a great way for a bunch of mostly priviledged white kids (private school) to have some empathy and understanding. 

In the 5th grade they learned about Vikings and on one day the students went on a Viking raid in the cafeteria, yelling and screaming and stealing food - mostly ice cream and desert. 

Sadly, under the new head of the school, these and other activities, like the Renaissance Fair have been dropped.

These lessons, as well as the Witch Hunt lesson are a far better way of learning than reading from a book or listening to a lecture and taking notes. 

Mar 1, 2021 - 1:32:03 PM

donc

Canada

6539 posts since 2/9/2010

I live in a very secular part of North America where the Christian churches probably enjoy less than 10% attendance. Being a follower of witch traditions has become a somewhat trendy association. If you were to play that game in some Vancouver schools you may get 1 or 2 honest kids who will actually identify with that badge due to parental connections.

Mar 1, 2021 - 2:01:13 PM
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2332 posts since 7/20/2004

quote:
Originally posted by donc

This was an excellent lesson. It reminds me of more than one example in recent history. The first one is the McCarthy ivestigations that caught fire in the early 1950's. Many people had their reputations and careers ruined by unfounded rumours and problems that really didn't exist in the first place. I can site a few more that have surfaced in recent months but they would also qualify as poly ticks.


In spite of the hysteria generated by the McCarthy hearings, his basic premise was correct.  They State Department had been penetrated by Soviet spies, as proven by the fairly recently declassified VENONA decryptions.  Alger Hiss was in fact, a Soviet agent, and the Rosenbergs were indeed guilty.  The VENONA project was of NSA's major wins in the post-war period.

Mar 1, 2021 - 3:42:59 PM
Players Union Member

DC5

USA

18112 posts since 6/30/2015

quote:
Originally posted by CW Spook
quote:
Originally posted by donc

This was an excellent lesson. It reminds me of more than one example in recent history. The first one is the McCarthy ivestigations that caught fire in the early 1950's. Many people had their reputations and careers ruined by unfounded rumours and problems that really didn't exist in the first place. I can site a few more that have surfaced in recent months but they would also qualify as poly ticks.


In spite of the hysteria generated by the McCarthy hearings, his basic premise was correct.  They State Department had been penetrated by Soviet spies, as proven by the fairly recently declassified VENONA decryptions.  Alger Hiss was in fact, a Soviet agent, and the Rosenbergs were indeed guilty.  The VENONA project was of NSA's major wins in the post-war period.


But McCarthy turned a handful of spies into a witch hunt that had neighbors suspecting neighbors, a commie under every bed, and he destroyed the lives of anyone he disagreed with by painting them with a broad brush that ended up blackballing many and ruining their carreers.  Even Pete Seeger was caught in the net and couldn't get television or college engagements for years.  The guilt by association thing ran rampant.

Mar 1, 2021 - 5:08:33 PM

figmo59

USA

32963 posts since 3/5/2008

I guess there were no kids named...Glenda.. :0/

Mar 1, 2021 - 6:12:59 PM

donc

Canada

6539 posts since 2/9/2010

I ran across a website a few years ago called 'Rate your Physician'. Being nosey I looked up the comments associated with a friend who is a doctor. The most recent comments were vicious as well as malicious. The comments were signed with the usual fictitious name. If that was a newspaper or magazine my friend would have had 100% grounds to launch charges of libel . Who knows how many patients he may have lost by those blatant lies ? The website itself was probably headquartered in some s#i+hole country far away from law and order. Any website that invites comments regarding goods or services is probably a poor place to get an opinion. I was talking to a local flooring retailer who told me that many of the big companies have people hired to visit these websites and bad mouth the competitors. I've seen it in a local website rating restaurants. You know its full of lies when you recognize the same spelling and grammatical errors as you bounce from restaurant to restaurant. Welcome to the great age of information. When does it end ?

Mar 1, 2021 - 7:12:52 PM
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74240 posts since 5/9/2007

People without a strong sense of right and wrong are open to many suggestions...are quick to adopt strange tangents simply by being told anything as if it were fact.
If facts are discovered to prove the lie it is easy to simply then say facts are unimportant.

Mar 1, 2021 - 10:06:18 PM
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Paul R

Canada

14203 posts since 1/28/2010

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."

Mar 2, 2021 - 8:32:55 AM
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74240 posts since 5/9/2007

Belief systems (or lack thereof) are instilled at home.
I think they were stronger when the older generations remained at home.
They instilled common sense and patience in the younger ones.Strong lessons of right and wrong,by example.

"Respect your elders" isn't just some tired,old cliche.They have a life-time of experience to draw on.

Mar 8, 2021 - 11:52:36 AM

Owen

Canada

8238 posts since 6/5/2011

IF what's being made public recently is accurate, it seems the smear preceded the investigation.  Apparently an "investigation" is being undertaken:   https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/lethbridge-police-service-search-photograph-mla-shannon-phillips-1.5932495

I wonder [cough/hack/cough/splutter] whether it will be primarily to uncover the truth, or to allow time for butts to get covered?   Handing over heavily redacted documents [under "access to information"] doesn't exactly raise my level of trust.

Mar 9, 2021 - 5:45:30 AM

6593 posts since 9/5/2006

keep your friends close,,but your enemies closer ..........................

Mar 9, 2021 - 9:05:33 AM
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11702 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Owen

IF what's being made public recently is accurate, it seems the smear preceded the investigation.  Apparently an "investigation" is being undertaken:   https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/lethbridge-police-service-search-photograph-mla-shannon-phillips-1.5932495

I wonder [cough/hack/cough/splutter] whether it will be primarily to uncover the truth, or to allow time for butts to get covered?   Handing over heavily redacted documents [under "access to information"] doesn't exactly raise my level of trust.


That's funny Owen, as we have had an incident here in the states recently that you are probably aware of.  Tiger Woods, the professional golfer, was in a serious one car accident where he mangled his lower leg and ankle and his golfing career is in jeopardy.  In spite of not know what had happened, how fast he was going, or any other basic facts, the local authorities said that he had not done anything wrong ....... but they were going to launch an investigation.  Wouldn't it have been better to declare that he had "done nothing wrong" after the investigation.  I am curious what the "black box" from the car will tell us and whether the results will be released.

Mar 9, 2021 - 10:28:09 AM

35 posts since 3/2/2021

Do you trust Facebook that much?

So conversely, I’d want to contradict that last line; “That is how you teach kids how easy it is to divide a community?

Isn’t it open for horrible deceitful class imitation?

Let us turn’ Salem Witch’ to ‘Idiot’ for one.

Are not teachers aware they have volumes of ethical standard of behavioural accord to fall back on including choosing friends and choices in social situations.

Maxim: >associate yourself with people of good quality, for it is better to be alone then in bad company<
? who said that?

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