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Jan 24, 2021 - 3:33:55 PM
171 posts since 12/29/2020

So I just got a clawhammer banjo and am learning through Patric Costello's banjo channel. (YES I know he has been a little s*** on here in the past but he has a good teaching style for beginners)

Would anyone know the basic chords of the song or how to play the song impromptu with a fiddle. I LOVE tablature don't get me wrong and believe it is good for beginners (I am NOT a beginner I CAN read tabs and play bluegrass banjo) but I feel that when playing impromptu with fiddles/mandolins it can be a bit too restrictive.

thank you for your time :)

Jan 24, 2021 - 4:12:39 PM

259 posts since 10/16/2011

I was using these when playing bluegrass mostly but work with ditty bumps too and have tons of songs and a lot memorized like this .Let me know if you need others . There the songs chorded out with words . This is a key of D song but i like to sing in Eb so just ignore the capo 1 part . If this is what your looking for that is . Good beginner stuff for sure .


Jan 24, 2021 - 4:22:12 PM

171 posts since 12/29/2020

quote:
Originally posted by Scott Barnbilly56

I was using these when playing bluegrass mostly but work with ditty bumps too and have tons of songs and a lot memorized like this .Let me know if you need others . There the songs chorded out with words . This is a key of D song but i like to sing in Eb so just ignore the capo 1 part . If this is what your looking for that is . Good beginner stuff for sure .


cool :) thx can you play in key of G ? (the key that Patrick teaches in) 

Jan 24, 2021 - 5:16:59 PM

Bill H

USA

1530 posts since 11/7/2010

Whiskey before breakfast in G?

Jan 24, 2021 - 5:26:07 PM

171 posts since 12/29/2020

quote:
Originally posted by Bill H

Whiskey before breakfast in G?


is it possible?

Jan 24, 2021 - 6:11:13 PM
Players Union Member

dbrooks

USA

3967 posts since 3/11/2004
Online Now

It's possible but you may not find anyone else who plays it in G.. Fiddlers play this in D. You could capo at the 7th fret and play chords for G, but the banjo sounds like a toy then. Double-C tuning (gCGCD) with a capo at the second fret opr tuning up to double-D (aDADE) is the way to go.

David

Jan 24, 2021 - 6:26:33 PM

259 posts since 10/16/2011

Older Pat Costello was my first clawhammer you tube vid teacher . Know they start folks out in G but D is just as simple . Here's a chart for some short chords if your having trouble making full chord shapes due to to many fingers at once . This is how i start out beginners to get them going with ease . We all learn this in D for both banjo and fiddle and would sound crappy in G so like Dave Brooks say you wouldn't find anyone hardly to play along with you . Most all of us are melody players which is more involved then just changing chord keys .


Jan 24, 2021 - 6:55:15 PM

2793 posts since 4/19/2008

Instrumentals are put in the best keys for ease of performance. Here's a visual chart that shows where the melody lands on banjo (open G) and fiddle for the keys of D and G..


Jan 25, 2021 - 3:35:16 AM

QldPicker

Australia

228 posts since 4/17/2020

When I started to learn clawhammer banjo, I had the misfortune of using the YouTube presenter mentioned in the OP.

It was a bad move for me and resulted in MY learning of some wrong concepts. There are people online that have a more balanced and less dogmatic approach in retrospect.

I'm sure he is a fine teacher/player, and I am not knocking him, however the approach did not suit me.

There are some amazing resources online to avail of, and when you find one that suits, there are options available to take it to another level.

Jan 25, 2021 - 8:15:40 AM

171 posts since 12/29/2020

quote:
Originally posted by dbrooks

It's possible but you may not find anyone else who plays it in G.. Fiddlers play this in D. You could capo at the 7th fret and play chords for G, but the banjo sounds like a toy then. Double-C tuning (gCGCD) with a capo at the second fret opr tuning up to double-D (aDADE) is the way to go.

David


i don't have a capo :( is their another way? 

Jan 25, 2021 - 8:16:42 AM

171 posts since 12/29/2020

quote:
Originally posted by QldPicker

When I started to learn clawhammer banjo, I had the misfortune of using the YouTube presenter mentioned in the OP.

It was a bad move for me and resulted in MY learning of some wrong concepts. There are people online that have a more balanced and less dogmatic approach in retrospect.

I'm sure he is a fine teacher/player, and I am not knocking him, however the approach did not suit me.

There are some amazing resources online to avail of, and when you find one that suits, there are options available to take it to another level.


interesting :) can't find a IRL teacher right now. any online teacher recomendations? 

-thx

Jan 25, 2021 - 8:21:06 AM

15 posts since 12/8/2011

quote:
Originally posted by thebanjoshopper



Would anyone know the basic chords of the song or how to play the song impromptu with a fiddle. 


A lot (but certainly not all) of standards in the canon can reveal their chords by process of elimination (once you have established the key it's in). The I-chord (or tonic) is essential (and usually the first to be played and almost certainly the last to be played), the V-chord is almost always there, and the IV-chord is third most common.  So for the key of G, G is the I-chord, D is the V-chord and C is the IV-chord. In the key of D those chords would be D, A & G. If you just strum through the song you can probably find them yourself. If there's a sad (or less than happy-sounding chord it's likely ii or vi which would be Amin and Emin for the key of G).

I

Edited by - Barnacle Joe on 01/25/2021 08:27:37

Jan 25, 2021 - 8:35 AM
Players Union Member

dbrooks

USA

3967 posts since 3/11/2004
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by thebanjoshopper
quote:
Originally posted by dbrooks

It's possible but you may not find anyone else who plays it in G.. Fiddlers play this in D. You could capo at the 7th fret and play chords for G, but the banjo sounds like a toy then. Double-C tuning (gCGCD) with a capo at the second fret opr tuning up to double-D (aDADE) is the way to go.

David


i don't have a capo :( is their another way? 


You can tune all of your strings to open D (f#DF#AD) though you may have trouble finding chords in that tuning or online help. Double-D tuning  (same as double-C raised from C to D) is another method if your banjo is fairly new and can handle the slightly higher string tension. Learning other tunings is not that scary though most new players put it off. I did as well. The chord shapes in double-C or double-D are easy. That is part of the reason for the tuning/. Three tunings will serve virtually all of your needs: open-G (gDGBD), Sawmill (gDGCD) for modal tunes like "Shady Grove," and  double-C.

As for inline teachers, there are many. Dan Levenson, Evie Ladin, Cathy Fink, Brad Kolodner among others. I teach classes and private students at the Louisville Folk SChool which is en tirely online right now. Some of these teachers have instructional videos, while others offer live 1-on-1 sessions as well.

Your desire to play with others is a good path to improving your askills and enjoyment. Don't let a small hurdle, such as a new tuning, keep you from that.

David

Jan 25, 2021 - 9:18:55 AM

15 posts since 12/8/2011

quote:
Originally posted by thebanjoshopper

i don't have a capo :( is their another way? 


A capo is likely to be the second-cheapest banjo accessory you will ever buy.  Second only to a Bic pen.  In fact, you can make one with a pen and some appropriately sized rubber bands.

And if you learn it in double-C before you sort out the capo, then you will immediately know I it in double-D when you put the capo on.

Jan 25, 2021 - 1:25:43 PM
likes this

QldPicker

Australia

228 posts since 4/17/2020

quote:
Originally posted by thebanjoshopper

interesting :) can't find a IRL teacher right now. any online teacher recomendations? 

-thx


Hilarie Burhans. Quite a few in our Old Time group use her through Patreon. Tom Collins is another. There are lots!

Jan 25, 2021 - 2:25:37 PM
like this

Bill H

USA

1530 posts since 11/7/2010

Here's a link to Hilarie Burhan's Youtube tutorial for Whiskey Before Breakfast. She offers so much more insight into real bano playing. Hilary Burhan, Whiskey Before Breakfast

Jan 26, 2021 - 4:17:12 PM
like this

m06

England

9596 posts since 10/5/2006

quote:
Originally posted by thebanjoshopper



>or how to play the song impromptu with a fiddle<


That skill can be nurtured and certainly, without being a fixed ABC of steps, there are various techniques and strategies that can be demonstrated and combined. Mostly those strategies are ways to identify characteristic markers and connect more quickly and efficiently with an unfamiliar tune. But those strategies draw on the musician's own library of pitch, phrasing and familiarity with fretting positions. There is no short-cut or way round that latter requirement. As an absolute beginner your first task is to become fully adept at playing your banjo and absorb the sound of the OT repertoire so that those cadences and rhythms become so familiar they are your inner soundtrack.

The idea of nurturing is key because musically guidance how to pick up tunes on the fly is not a simple transaction; it is one adept tightrope walker enabling another to venture out on a wire too. And ultimately that is an equipping, practice and trust exercise. It is the extreme opposite of rote learning; it is learning by doing and realising.

I teach banjo and if a student indicates an interest in playing in sessions I initiate and integrate this nurturing of ear-playing (baby steps at first) from relatively early on. But the nurturing is an aspect of a face-to-face relationship. In that context a student can gradually and assuredly be brought to their own self-realisation that they can hear markers and transfer those to the fretboard in real time. That groundwork is the equivalent of coaching the wannabe tightrope walker on a low wire with a net first and is vital to build and maintain the confidence that is essential to moving on to successfully and consistently pick tunes up on the fly on the high wire without a net that are actual sessions.

Edited by - m06 on 01/26/2021 16:36:29

Jan 27, 2021 - 6:08:11 AM

10984 posts since 6/17/2003

I play it in G because that's how I figured it out one day. Jams play it in D, so I'm relearning it.

It's good practice to get a melody in your head then try to play it in different keys, or to play the same song in different tunings that don't just involve a capo change.

Feb 6, 2021 - 9:32:46 PM

bd

USA

1152 posts since 1/6/2012

Whiskey before breakfast can certainly be played in G. Usually clawhammer players play it in "double C" i.e, gCGCD but its no more difficult in gDGBD just a bit different. As far as the chords the Old Time Jam website says: DDG DADDG DA D x2 DDA A7 D AG DG DA D x2

Feb 7, 2021 - 4:41:01 AM

carlb

USA

2209 posts since 12/16/2007

quote:
Originally posted by thebanjoshopper
quote:
Originally posted by dbrooks

It's possible but you may not find anyone else who plays it in G.. Fiddlers play this in D. You could capo at the 7th fret and play chords for G, but the banjo sounds like a toy then. Double-C tuning (gCGCD) with a capo at the second fret opr tuning up to double-D (aDADE) is the way to go.

David


i don't have a capo :( is their another way? 


You can tune up, as I do, to aDAde. Now I do use light gauge strings. Also, I play in different tunings for different keys. I do have a capo, but I only use it when some singer wants to sing in a sharp or flat key.

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