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Jan 24, 2021 - 12:57:27 PM
6455 posts since 9/5/2006

looking at some blue willow dinnerware sets.. sweety mentioned she would like to have a complete set of dishes that match.. and she mentioned that the blue willow pattern was real purty. i am looking into johnson and churchill brands...something that looks like the original but is dishwasher and microwave safe. any body up on this ,,,, the better ones look to be made in england.

Jan 24, 2021 - 1:42:38 PM

2945 posts since 4/22/2018

quote:
Originally posted by 1935tb-11

looking at some blue willow dinnerware sets.. sweety mentioned she would like to have a complete set of dishes that match.. and she mentioned that the blue willow pattern was real purty. i am looking into johnson and churchill brands...something that looks like the original but is dishwasher and microwave safe. any body up on this ,,,, the better ones look to be made in england.


Cant hep you with advice Terry, but if you find what you need  over here I'd be happy to help with shipping/etc if it makes things easier.

Jan 24, 2021 - 1:44:51 PM

6455 posts since 9/5/2006

quote:
Originally posted by Wet Spaniel
quote:
Originally posted by 1935tb-11

looking at some blue willow dinnerware sets.. sweety mentioned she would like to have a complete set of dishes that match.. and she mentioned that the blue willow pattern was real purty. i am looking into johnson and churchill brands...something that looks like the original but is dishwasher and microwave safe. any body up on this ,,,, the better ones look to be made in england.


Cant hep you with advice Terry, but if you find what you need  over here I'd be happy to help with shipping/etc if it makes things easier.


thanks  man,,, i know  johnson and churchill are both made in england.  just in the searching mode right now.... she told me to wait for better times before i bought......

Jan 24, 2021 - 6:38:39 PM

11525 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by 1935tb-11

looking at some blue willow dinnerware sets.. sweety mentioned she would like to have a complete set of dishes that match.. and she mentioned that the blue willow pattern was real purty. i am looking into johnson and churchill brands...something that looks like the original but is dishwasher and microwave safe. any body up on this ,,,, the better ones look to be made in england.


Terry ..... Blue Willow is a beautiful and popular pattern. Our formal dinnerware is sort of an adaption (or maybe a forerunner of Blue Willow) that was made by Royal Worchester in around 1856.  It was used by someone else other than us the first 120 years of its life.  If I were you, and not in a hurry, I would be looking for either some antique China or some newer, finely made sets, that are used.  Whereas nice used China used to bring good money, you can hardly give the stuff away today.  I can't tell you how many nice sets of China I have turned down for ridiculously low prices.  Check out auctions in your area, especially ones like Bruno in Asheville.  You can get some real bargains.

Jan 25, 2021 - 3:05:15 AM

3235 posts since 4/29/2012
Online Now

The willow pattern was first produced in Stoke-on-Trent England in the early 1800's with an invented 'Chinese' legend as to it's meaning (some nonsense about runaway lovers being turned into birds if I remember rightly). Worcester didn't mark its productions as 'Royal Worcester' until some time after 1856. But Worcester pottery and porcelain of the 19th C (and later) has a system of (one or more at different times) printed dots and impressed numbers and letters on their marks which can tell you an exact date.

Jan 25, 2021 - 5:03:27 AM

6455 posts since 9/5/2006

well it has to be practical for us too,,,i have noticed the term earthenware.. i am pretty sure the older stuff is not going to be microwave/dishwasher safe. but this earthenware is supposed to be.... but 41 dollars apiece for coffee mugs are a bit steep for my taste... i have seen sets of four with tea cups for 180 bucks /johnson/ churchill ,,, in our case we would need to add cereal/soup bowls and coffee mugs for a day to day use. ebay has lots of them in different groups and state of condition.  most are excellent.

Edited by - 1935tb-11 on 01/25/2021 05:10:48

Jan 25, 2021 - 5:04:22 AM
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Players Union Member

rinemb

USA

13074 posts since 5/24/2005

My brother does estate sales and has an antique shop. He cannot hardly give away sets of china or flat ware (silver plate). Us old folks dont need a fourth set of china. The younger folks don't want great gramma's china or sillver plate. People will buy a piece to replace or fill a set they already have. I went to one of his sales he did for a long time hoarder of that kind of stuff. there must have been 10-15 sets of china of all kinds, and a couple of dozen sets of silver plate. He all but gave it away. (Exception is the very early 1800 +/- Blue Willow. It may have been the first transfer ware?) Most of the later blue willow as with most transfer ware is dishwasher safe. Now microwaving not good if it has gold rims etc. the wife always tells me.
I always like the blue willow china. We have several antique sets of other stuff.
Yet we have to pay decent money for replacement pieces of our wedding Dansk stoneware.
Enjoy it and use it. Brad

Jan 25, 2021 - 5:13:26 AM

6455 posts since 9/5/2006

quote:
Originally posted by rinemb

My brother does estate sales and has an antique shop. He cannot hardly give away sets of china or flat ware (silver plate). Us old folks dont need a fourth set of china. The younger folks don't want great gramma's china or sillver plate. People will buy a piece to replace or fill a set they already have. I went to one of his sales he did for a long time hoarder of that kind of stuff. there must have been 10-15 sets of china of all kinds, and a couple of dozen sets of silver plate. He all but gave it away. (Exception is the very early 1800 +/- Blue Willow. It may have been the first transfer ware?) Most of the later blue willow as with most transfer ware is dishwasher safe. Now microwaving not good if it has gold rims etc. the wife always tells me.
I always like the blue willow china. We have several antique sets of other stuff.
Yet we have to pay decent money for replacement pieces of our wedding Dansk stoneware.
Enjoy it and use it. Brad


yeah we have the largest dinnerware replacement store east of the mississippi just 40 miles from here.  thats all they do .  from standard stuff to rare very expensive stuff.

Jan 25, 2021 - 4:30:18 PM

11525 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by 1935tb-11
quote:
Originally posted by rinemb

My brother does estate sales and has an antique shop. He cannot hardly give away sets of china or flat ware (silver plate). Us old folks dont need a fourth set of china. The younger folks don't want great gramma's china or sillver plate. People will buy a piece to replace or fill a set they already have. I went to one of his sales he did for a long time hoarder of that kind of stuff. there must have been 10-15 sets of china of all kinds, and a couple of dozen sets of silver plate. He all but gave it away. (Exception is the very early 1800 +/- Blue Willow. It may have been the first transfer ware?) Most of the later blue willow as with most transfer ware is dishwasher safe. Now microwaving not good if it has gold rims etc. the wife always tells me.
I always like the blue willow china. We have several antique sets of other stuff.
Yet we have to pay decent money for replacement pieces of our wedding Dansk stoneware.
Enjoy it and use it. Brad


yeah we have the largest dinnerware replacement store east of the mississippi just 40 miles from here.  thats all they do .  from standard stuff to rare very expensive stuff.


Yeah Terry ..... that place is great but pretty expensive.  The only time I would buy from them is to replace one or two broken pieces to fill out a collection.  I wouldn't even consider buying a set of any china from them.

Jan 25, 2021 - 5:35:40 PM
Players Union Member

rinemb

USA

13074 posts since 5/24/2005

Wife has used them to replace a piece or fill out a set, if she does not have time to follow ebay for a while. Brad

Jan 25, 2021 - 9:48:55 PM

11525 posts since 1/15/2005

Terry, I could not find our plates, but this is one of the serving pieces (about 12" from elephant trunk handle to handle).  We have a couple of other serving pieces that are almost twice this large.  After looking up the mark again, I think the age of this is closer to 1880 than 1856 that I originally thought.  As you can see, inside of the medallions, there is an oriental pagoda scene, very reminiscent of the Blue Willow china.  In the over 30 years since I have inherited this from my mother, I have never seen a duplicate ...... even at Replacements, Unlimited.  They may have a piece now, but I seriously doubt it.




 

Jan 26, 2021 - 4:22:39 AM

3235 posts since 4/29/2012
Online Now

Nice set. The registered design mark - The diamond to the right - has a year letter of E. This indicates that the design was registered in 1881. The V below the Worcester mark is for 1884.
I spent my teenage weekends working in my mother's antique shop and was her research gopher. I know more about this stuff than is really useful :-)

Jan 26, 2021 - 5:58:16 AM
Players Union Member

rinemb

USA

13074 posts since 5/24/2005

quote:
Originally posted by AndrewD

Nice set. The registered design mark - The diamond to the right - has a year letter of E. This indicates that the design was registered in 1881. The V below the Worcester mark is for 1884.
I spent my teenage weekends working in my mother's antique shop and was her research gopher. I know more about this stuff than is really useful :-)


Great skill set if you ask me.  How are you on silver hallmarks?  Brad

Jan 26, 2021 - 6:00:50 AM
Players Union Member

rinemb

USA

13074 posts since 5/24/2005

I have been researching/shopping for a German or French soup tureen. I suppose I have looked at thousands on Etsy and Ebay. I don't know why I have used my time for such. As my wife has absolute rule on the table. Brad

Jan 26, 2021 - 6:29:34 AM

3235 posts since 4/29/2012
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by rinemb
quote:
Originally posted by AndrewD

Nice set. The registered design mark - The diamond to the right - has a year letter of E. This indicates that the design was registered in 1881. The V below the Worcester mark is for 1884.
I spent my teenage weekends working in my mother's antique shop and was her research gopher. I know more about this stuff than is really useful :-)


Great skill set if you ask me.  How are you on silver hallmarks?  Brad


British ones are pretty easy - Town mark, standard mark, date letter, maker. It's all there. . It's those sneaky tiny continental ones that are a problem. I used to use a French book by (if I remember rightly) a guy called Tardy for those. American - Forget it. If you are lucky it's stamped 'Sterling'. And if very lucky a maker's mark.  So pretty easy to convert a piece of anonymous silver into Paul Revere.

Jan 26, 2021 - 7:40:48 AM

11525 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by AndrewD

Nice set. The registered design mark - The diamond to the right - has a year letter of E. This indicates that the design was registered in 1881. The V below the Worcester mark is for 1884.
I spent my teenage weekends working in my mother's antique shop and was her research gopher. I know more about this stuff than is really useful :-)


My mother was an antique dealer too, so I have started going to auctions and antique shows before I could walk.  She bought this set of china in 1961 from a dealer in Anderson,SC who was one of the early importers from England.  The set was a 16 place setting with just about every serving piece you could imagine.  I think she paid $1000, which was a lot of money at the time.  Toward the end of my mother's life she divided the pieces between my brother and I and a few years later he and his wife divorced.  He did not care anything about the china, so my ex-S-I-L wound up with it.  She later called me and offered "her"  share of the china for $3000.  I told her no.  When she died several years ago, her son from from a previous marriage was supposed to return the china to me, but before he could do it his sister got into the house and took it.  It was never a matter of me needing the extra pieces but rather not wanting to see the set broken up.

The photo below shows most of the serving pieces that I got.  The large platter measures 21" across.




Jan 26, 2021 - 7:41:08 AM
Players Union Member

rinemb

USA

13074 posts since 5/24/2005

quote:
Originally posted by AndrewD
quote:
Originally posted by rinemb
quote:
Originally posted by AndrewD

Nice set. The registered design mark - The diamond to the right - has a year letter of E. This indicates that the design was registered in 1881. The V below the Worcester mark is for 1884.
I spent my teenage weekends working in my mother's antique shop and was her research gopher. I know more about this stuff than is really useful :-)


Great skill set if you ask me.  How are you on silver hallmarks?  Brad


British ones are pretty easy - Town mark, standard mark, date letter, maker. It's all there. . It's those sneaky tiny continental ones that are a problem. I used to use a French book by (if I remember rightly) a guy called Tardy for those. American - Forget it. If you are lucky it's stamped 'Sterling'. And if very lucky a maker's mark.  So pretty easy to convert a piece of anonymous silver into Paul Revere.


Well, I try.  I mark the silver jewelry I make with my BR stamp, and my fine silver with .999 and sterling pieces with .925.  I can see it and feel it.  but many folks can't.  I do enjoy knowing for sure, though when cleaning or polishing silver.   I need to be able to google, when I see all those hallmarks.  Brad

Jan 26, 2021 - 7:51:44 AM

11525 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by rinemb
quote:
Originally posted by AndrewD

Nice set. The registered design mark - The diamond to the right - has a year letter of E. This indicates that the design was registered in 1881. The V below the Worcester mark is for 1884.
I spent my teenage weekends working in my mother's antique shop and was her research gopher. I know more about this stuff than is really useful :-)


Great skill set if you ask me.  How are you on silver hallmarks?  Brad


Brad .... for silver, I used to use "Old Silver" by Seymour Wyler, as it was a pretty good reference.  Since the internet, I am usually too lazy to open it, but it is still a good reference book.  It includes English, American, and other silver.  As per Andrew, the hallmarks on English silver give you a lot more information regarding exact dates and locations, but old American silver is marked pretty well also.  It just doesn't give you the date and exact location.  You just either have to know or look up where that silver smith or manufacturer was working when they used a particular mark.  It's not that hard.  I have a small collection of silver, but am really only interested in older southern pieces ..... mostly South Carolina (Charleston & Columbia).

Jan 26, 2021 - 7:55:58 AM

575 posts since 10/9/2017

For a more modern take, there is this: Calamity Ware

Jan 26, 2021 - 8:08:59 AM
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6455 posts since 9/5/2006

wow nice set,,,, the original stuff is way out of my practical price range... her mom has a couple of sets of old german dinnerware handed down through many generations. but too fancy for everyday use. and also has a very fancy set of silverware from germany too. i am just looking at some look alike blue willow for everyday use ... we have not had a complete set of dishes since we got married,,,,, thought i would try to get her a set before i kick the bucket anyway.

Jan 26, 2021 - 9:04:48 AM

11525 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by 1935tb-11

wow nice set,,,, the original stuff is way out of my practical price range... her mom has a couple of sets of old german dinnerware handed down through many generations. but too fancy for everyday use. and also has a very fancy set of silverware from germany too. i am just looking at some look alike blue willow for everyday use ... we have not had a complete set of dishes since we got married,,,,, thought i would try to get her a set before i kick the bucket anyway.


Terry, it doesn't matter if it is old or new as long as it is something you enjoy.  Quite frankly, we don't use ours enough to enjoy it.  I prefer to use my plain white Corel plate that may be worth in the $1.50 range (although no one would pay that for it) for 99.9% of my meals.  My wife likes to use Villeroy & Boch (Audun Ferme pattern) which is too fancy for me, so we use different plates at each meal.

Why don't you start out with a two or four place settings which would not be real expensive and you can add sets later, or individual serving pieces as needed.  That is the good thing about the commercially made pieces is that you know the later pieces you buy are going to be the same.

Jan 26, 2021 - 9:41:31 AM

6455 posts since 9/5/2006

yeah i think i am going to do a 4 place first and add some cereal bowls later and them just build on that,,,,, we are focusing on her mom at the moment and getting her back to self sufficient ,,,then i will look into that.... my stepson is coming up this weekend or next and we gonna build me a ugly drum smoker. he has been building and selling them to several people down that way... i told him i wanted one too !!!!

Jan 26, 2021 - 10:18:04 AM
Players Union Member

rinemb

USA

13074 posts since 5/24/2005

Its kind of a newish thing to do,that is to mix dinner ware. I would even be tempted to buy different makes, but similar, Blue Willow stuff and use it together. each piece might have its own story. Wont make much difference in value down the road, me thinks, unless are trying to build up a highly collectible and valuable old set.
Brad

Jan 26, 2021 - 7:46:25 PM

Iron Paw

New Zealand

441 posts since 11/28/2014

I have a brown Willow pattern jug made by Royal Doulton, England.
You don't see many of the brown version. Maybe the blue is more common or popular?
The jug was my Mum's and she had a large platter too.
My brother has the platter, and the jug came to me.
I quite like the brown colour, and it is unusual here in NZ.

Edited by - Iron Paw on 01/26/2021 19:51:18

Jan 27, 2021 - 1:50:58 AM
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3235 posts since 4/29/2012
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by Iron Paw

I have a brown Willow pattern jug made by Royal Doulton, England.
You don't see many of the brown version. Maybe the blue is more common or popular?
The jug was my Mum's and she had a large platter too.
My brother has the platter, and the jug came to me.
I quite like the brown colour, and it is unusual here in NZ.


Blue is more common/popular as the design was invented to provide a cheap domestic version of  expensive imported Chinese 'blue and white' porcelain. The Chinese has been using this cobalt blue pigment for hundreds of years, so European potters copied it. This is why much Dutch Delftware is also blue and white. Doulton originated in the Lambeth area of London in the early/mid 19th C producing earthenware beer jugs and drainpipes. They branched out into 'art pottery' colour-glazed earthenware, and this is their most prized output.  They opened a factory in Burslem in Stoke-on-Trent  in the late 19th C producing more mass produced and 'refined' stuff and added the Royal to their name in the very early 20th C. If your jug is marked 'England' then it's very late 19th or very early 20thC . 'Made in England' would place it later. Blame the Americans who insisted that imports were marked with their country of origin.

Jan 28, 2021 - 4:28:09 AM

Paul R

Canada

13955 posts since 1/28/2010

Unfortunately Doulton is yet another victim of the "mergers & acquisitions" mess and now a lot of its production is in Indonesia.

Our friend, Rose, collects Amari (Royal Crown Derby). Interesting to find that there are several Amari patterns.

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