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Jan 24, 2021 - 3:51 AM
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32551 posts since 3/5/2008

Deserve to be treated with Respect...

IMO....
The way they are being treated in D.C. ...
Is Disgracefull....


I served 9 years....
N ..this is a Bloody shame...

I HONOR OUR TROOPS..
The ones that do the dirty jobs...for us..

Jan 24, 2021 - 4:43:13 AM
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Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

25466 posts since 8/3/2003

I agree, but let's be very careful with this thread, it could become political in a hurry. Please leave politics out of it and just talk about our troops.

Jan 24, 2021 - 5:14:54 AM
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wizofos

USA

5830 posts since 8/19/2012

This does not surprise me at all. Ask any Viet Nam vet.
This Kipling poem applied in 1890, 1968, and 2020.

Not much changes.

http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_tommy.htm

Jan 24, 2021 - 6:18:49 AM
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73958 posts since 5/9/2007

For the rest of their stay they should see quality hotel rooms.
I think it will be easy to find problems in a quick deployment of so many.
I also think it won't happen again with more careful planning.

Jan 24, 2021 - 8:29:18 AM
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rbfour5

USA

1084 posts since 11/9/2010

I respect ALL of our military. My dad served in Korea; four of my five younger brothers served; two are nearing retirement from active duty service; three of them have been deployed at some point in their careers overseas- Kuwait; Iraq; Afghanistan. One brother losing his life after returning home, from exposure in Desert Storm. I salute all troops that are currently or have served this great country, both domestically and abroad.
God bless them all.

Jan 24, 2021 - 8:35:48 AM
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rbfour5

USA

1084 posts since 11/9/2010

wizofos You are absolutely correct. People have not changed at all since 1890- or really, since the beginning of time..........

Jan 24, 2021 - 9:57:23 AM
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11463 posts since 1/15/2005

Real leaders understand that their troops are taken care of first and THEY (the leaders) are the ones that get in the back of the line ..... not at the front.  When everyone else has taken their food, they then eat.  After ever other person has a bed and warm place to sleep, the leader finds one.  When there isn't room in the last vehicle, the leader walks.  We no longer have leaders!

I still remember the quote of an early 19th century US Marine who was quoted as saying the only reason he would follow one of his proposed leader was "out of curiosity"!  Amen!

Jan 24, 2021 - 10:29:22 AM
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wizofos

USA

5830 posts since 8/19/2012

quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink

Real leaders understand that their troops are taken care of first and THEY (the leaders) are the ones that get in the back of the line ..... not at the front.  When everyone else has taken their food, they then eat.  After ever other person has a bed and warm place to sleep, the leader finds one.  When there isn't room in the last vehicle, the leader walks.  We no longer have leaders!

I still remember the quote of an early 19th century US Marine who was quoted as saying the only reason he would follow one of his proposed leader was "out of curiosity"!  Amen!


There is a scene in the movie Patton where he comes on a traffic jam with trucks, tanks and jeeps all fighting over who had right of way. He got out and directed traffic.  Now that is a leader.

Jan 24, 2021 - 12:17:18 PM
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11463 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by wizofos
quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink

Real leaders understand that their troops are taken care of first and THEY (the leaders) are the ones that get in the back of the line ..... not at the front.  When everyone else has taken their food, they then eat.  After ever other person has a bed and warm place to sleep, the leader finds one.  When there isn't room in the last vehicle, the leader walks.  We no longer have leaders!

I still remember the quote of an early 19th century US Marine who was quoted as saying the only reason he would follow one of his proposed leader was "out of curiosity"!  Amen!


There is a scene in the movie Patton where he comes on a traffic jam with trucks, tanks and jeeps all fighting over who had right of way. He got out and directed traffic.  Now that is a leader.


Yes it is Glen!

I have numerous original documents, many confidential, secret, and top secret, that belonged to my S-I-L's uncle who was Commanding General of Marine Aviation in the Pacific in WW II.  It  would be surprising to some how many of those letters concern the care and comfort of their men.  I remember one letter specifically where he writes about how some of the other troops, probably Navy, are receiving fresh fruit and vegetables while his men are being fed with canned goods.  He was not happy about that at all and made sure it was corrected.  In another letter he had a supply of fresh supplies coming in and had asked one of his Colonels to make sure that there was a guard on it so it wouldn't be pilfered.  In a later letter the Colonel said he had put a Private First Class to guard it and he had threatened to shoot a Major who was intent on "taking some of it".  General Moore recommended a promotion for the PFC!

Jan 24, 2021 - 12:35:44 PM
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62 posts since 1/27/2015

I guess they qualify as "Deplorables "just like most of us.

Jan 24, 2021 - 12:39:43 PM

6401 posts since 9/5/2006

get mine in before it locks,,, please come and protect us ,,oh never mind go sleep in the basement now.... thats pretty low !!!

Jan 24, 2021 - 12:46:49 PM

505 posts since 1/28/2011

My first questions when I heard of the number of troops being sent to DC was: Where are they going to put them, and where are they going to get enough porta potties for that many people. Why so many? Just for show maybe? 26,000 troops is over two divisions. There is no way that many people were needed. Not even close. To put it in perspective, we invaded Granada with 7600 troops, and the initial invasion of Guadacanal was with one Marine division, 11,000 men. I am not surprised at all that many of these guys were dumped in a parking garage with few rest room facilities. There were just too many and too short a time to be sure they were properly supplied and taken care of.

Edited by - latigo1 on 01/24/2021 12:53:48

Jan 24, 2021 - 12:53:44 PM
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rbfour5

USA

1084 posts since 11/9/2010

Obviously overplayed, lack of understanding, optics were in play and poor planning.

Jan 24, 2021 - 2:54:06 PM
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Bill Rogers (Moderator)

USA

24383 posts since 6/25/2005

The idea of that kind of deployment is to stop anyone from even thinking about some sort of attack. So it is far more than needed in one sense, but not another

Jan 24, 2021 - 2:56:58 PM
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rbfour5

USA

1084 posts since 11/9/2010

Right idea maybe, only the wrong coast.

Jan 24, 2021 - 3:41:26 PM
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505 posts since 1/28/2011

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rogers

The idea of that kind of deployment is to stop anyone from even thinking about some sort of attack. So it is far more than needed in one sense, but not another


It is so far, far, far, more than needed that it is beyond stupid.  Any military movement has to take into consideration troop support.  Available support is what determines how many troops are delegated to any military action, even in wartime.  You can't deploy troops unless you can supply them with basic needs.  Every military leader knows this.  This deployment had to have been ordered by someone other than experienced military officers.

Jan 24, 2021 - 4:03:49 PM
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2877 posts since 4/22/2018

I’m not sure what’s happening, but I think I can read between the lines. If it’s what I think, then when politicians get involved, all personnel welfare goes out of the window. When I signed up, there was a shortage of prison spaces in the UK so the govt started looking at putting low risk prisoners in army barracks. The barracks I was due to move into were assessed by the prison service but deemed too low a standard for prisoners to use. So, I was able to move in and pay rent for living in accommodation that my government felt was substandard for a prisoner to live in.

Jan 24, 2021 - 4:50:24 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

5552 posts since 5/16/2012

quote:
Originally posted by latigo1
 You can't deploy troops unless you can supply them with basic needs.  Every military leader knows this.  This deployment had to have been ordered by someone other than experienced military officers.

Yes ....this story doesn't seem to make any sense....You're got an army that hasn't got the infrastructure to feed and house it's troops in the capital of the USA...but seems to do alright on the other side of the world ? WTF.

Edited by - nakigreengrass on 01/24/2021 16:52:04

Jan 24, 2021 - 4:51:11 PM

3637 posts since 7/8/2010

Sad state of affairs but what a story to tell the grandkids.

Jan 24, 2021 - 5:19:18 PM
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wizofos

USA

5830 posts since 8/19/2012

I think that one thing that is missing here is that these were not regular army. They were National Guard which is under state control not federal control. It is illegal for regular US army troops to be used for law enforcement.  Now as I understand the National Guard can be federised but if they are then they fall under the Posse Comitatus Act which prevents them from being used for civil law enforcement.   All this goes out the window if Martial Law is declared. 

As I understand the Capital Police and DC city police requested the Natural Guard so in that case they would be under the control of the those organizations and they are responsible for feeding and housing those troops.  Now since neither of these organizations have any experience in providing for large scale military deployments it seems that someone dropped the ball.

They got what they asked for but did not know what they were asking for.  What is the old saying: Careful what you ask for  you might get it.

Jan 24, 2021 - 5:52:56 PM

650 posts since 2/15/2015

Field exercises just plain suck.

I think exercises and drills and constant training all suck. But it tempers the steel. Battle zones are worse but far worse if coddled beforehand.

Jan 24, 2021 - 7:26:14 PM

505 posts since 1/28/2011

quote:
Originally posted by wizofos

I think that one thing that is missing here is that these were not regular army. They were National Guard which is under state control not federal control. It is illegal for regular US army troops to be used for law enforcement.  Now as I understand the National Guard can be federised but if they are then they fall under the Posse Comitatus Act which prevents them from being used for civil law enforcement.   All this goes out the window if Martial Law is declared. 

As I understand the Capital Police and DC city police requested the Natural Guard so in that case they would be under the control of the those organizations and they are responsible for feeding and housing those troops.  Now since neither of these organizations have any experience in providing for large scale military deployments it seems that someone dropped the ball.

They got what they asked for but did not know what they were asking for.  What is the old saying: Careful what you ask for  you might get it.


The national guard is a state organization. It is under the control of the governor of each state it is from.  During times of extreme emergency, such as wartime, the guard can be brought under federal control.   Washington DC has National Guard units, but is not a state, so the DC National Guard is federally controlled.  The DC police and Capital police have no control over  the National  Guard.  They can only make requests.  Most of the units deployed to DC were from Maryland and Virginia and Washington DC.  My question is: Why so many?  The National Guard commanders are career military leaders.  They had to know there was no reason to activate  that many people.  Activating the National Guard is not just randomly done, willy nilly. There are plans in each guard unit regarding activating that unit. The plans include what is needed to activate and supply the units.  Seems to me like someone overuled those plans without regard for the well being of the troops.

Jan 25, 2021 - 3:16:39 AM
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3871 posts since 12/6/2009

heard someone say...."sending 25000 guardsmen to do what they did was like sending bar room bouncers to a baby shower".

Jan 25, 2021 - 3:31:02 AM

568 posts since 9/6/2019

quote:
Originally posted by Wet Spaniel

I’m not sure what’s happening, but I think I can read between the lines. If it’s what I think, then when politicians get involved, all personnel welfare goes out of the window. When I signed up, there was a shortage of prison spaces in the UK so the govt started looking at putting low risk prisoners in army barracks. The barracks I was due to move into were assessed by the prison service but deemed too low a standard for prisoners to use. So, I was able to move in and pay rent for living in accommodation that my government felt was substandard for a prisoner to live in.


The base housing that I lived in on one of my bases was initially build to be a council estate for the local city. The city determined it was substandard for council housing and sold it off to the military to use for base housing. I have seen some older housing units on one base that was little more than 2X4 framing and plywood walls.

Jan 25, 2021 - 3:33:11 AM
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568 posts since 9/6/2019

quote:
Originally posted by nakigreengrass
quote:
Originally posted by latigo1
 You can't deploy troops unless you can supply them with basic needs.  Every military leader knows this.  This deployment had to have been ordered by someone other than experienced military officers.

Yes ....this story doesn't seem to make any sense....You're got an army that hasn't got the infrastructure to feed and house it's troops in the capital of the USA...but seems to do alright on the other side of the world ? WTF.


That's because there isn't a base at the Capitol stairs and the residents of DC probably wouldn't stand for a tent city on the national mall. There are bases that could have housed the troops in the area, but they weren't right there and those troops were needed for a dog and pony show.

Jan 25, 2021 - 3:36:19 AM

568 posts since 9/6/2019

quote:
Originally posted by latigo1
quote:
Originally posted by wizofos

I think that one thing that is missing here is that these were not regular army. They were National Guard which is under state control not federal control. It is illegal for regular US army troops to be used for law enforcement.  Now as I understand the National Guard can be federised but if they are then they fall under the Posse Comitatus Act which prevents them from being used for civil law enforcement.   All this goes out the window if Martial Law is declared. 

As I understand the Capital Police and DC city police requested the Natural Guard so in that case they would be under the control of the those organizations and they are responsible for feeding and housing those troops.  Now since neither of these organizations have any experience in providing for large scale military deployments it seems that someone dropped the ball.

They got what they asked for but did not know what they were asking for.  What is the old saying: Careful what you ask for  you might get it.


The national guard is a state organization. It is under the control of the governor of each state it is from.  During times of extreme emergency, such as wartime, the guard can be brought under federal control.   Washington DC has National Guard units, but is not a state, so the DC National Guard is federally controlled.  The DC police and Capital police have no control over  the National  Guard.  They can only make requests.  Most of the units deployed to DC were from Maryland and Virginia and Washington DC.  My question is: Why so many?  The National Guard commanders are career military leaders.  They had to know there was no reason to activate  that many people.  Activating the National Guard is not just randomly done, willy nilly. There are plans in each guard unit regarding activating that unit. The plans include what is needed to activate and supply the units.  Seems to me like someone overuled those plans without regard for the well being of the troops.


There really isn't any way to answer that without getting into politics, so I won't answer it. But there is a reason.

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