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Jan 20, 2021 - 5:40:58 AM
4 posts since 11/1/2020

Acquired a new old stock rk g25 6 string with two piece tube and plate flange. When I removed the resonator to tighten some loose hooks on the bass side I discovered the tube had pulled up above the lip it sits against. Recording king said they do not warranty discontinued models so I removed the neck and removed the hooks and was able to pull the tube back in to place. Reinstalled hooks and everything looked even and fine but everytime I try to tension the head the tube on the bass side pulls right back up out of position and keeps bending upward. Don't know what to do from this point.

Jan 20, 2021 - 7:42:17 AM
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11496 posts since 6/2/2008

Send the rim and tube to a good banjo repair person to remove and replace the retaining bead/lip. Top of the list would be Eric Sullivan, John Boulding, Richie Dotson, Don Bryant. You can find them all through the Hangout, and see who'll take this on. I've had work done by Eric, John and Richie and was happy. I've only seen Don's work in pictures but it's impressive.

Jan 20, 2021 - 7:47:38 AM
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127 posts since 1/7/2019

I just had a new rim put in my Iida TPF banjo by Eric Sullivan and it came out excellent. I would highly recommend them.

Jeff

Jan 20, 2021 - 10:16:46 AM

KCJones

USA

1356 posts since 8/30/2012

quote:
Originally posted by Frailer24

... Recording king said they do not warranty discontinued models... 


I've often wondered why RK has so many discontinued models, and why they sometimes seem to change model names without much actual change to design. I think I've found the answer. 

Jan 20, 2021 - 10:31:25 AM

1593 posts since 4/13/2017

quote:
Originally posted by KCJones
quote:
Originally posted by Frailer24

... Recording king said they do not warranty discontinued models... 


I've often wondered why RK has so many discontinued models, and why they sometimes seem to change model names without much actual change to design. I think I've found the answer. 


Yes. I think that I am thinking the same thing as you. 

Jan 20, 2021 - 2:03:08 PM
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Players Union Member

Helix

USA

13440 posts since 8/30/2006

I beg to differ, gents, your comments are, I think, your own and they border, I think, on hearsay and libel
I don’t wish to sound critical

Those are spec production runs, based on budgets, availability from foundry to sawmill, shipping, and ability to get them into the country

Who pulled the tube up over
Did any one check to see if the tube was centered on the lip with shims, wedges, toothpicks before tightening, it’s a setup thing

Tube and Plate is my favorite type of rim
Solid rim open backs, great bluegrass, lighter, stronger, tube contacting the whole rim
Knowing the OP’s location helps many banjo players who are also first class shippers, which as you know is more challenging these days

Jan 21, 2021 - 8:46 AM

2534 posts since 6/19/2008

If I understand the tube and plate technology correctly (and I'm not sure I do), it seems that the tube must be oversized or that the wood lip of the rim that it bears against has gotten worn away or shrunken. Wood shrinks when it dries out. Maybe the tube needs to have a small amount taken out and then be resoldered to ensure a tight fit?

Jan 21, 2021 - 11:54:28 AM

3938 posts since 5/1/2003

I think you may have discovered why Gibson phased out this system in 1928 and again in the early 80s. It’s structurally inferior to the one piece but I guess they have to keep going back because that’s the way it was in the old days.
I once saw a 70s rb250 that had the tube affixed with JB weld. The owner was quite proud that it still had all original parts. Lol

Jan 21, 2021 - 2:31:04 PM
Players Union Member

Helix

USA

13440 posts since 8/30/2006

I now make my ledges in a 1/4” U channel with 8 black walnut PCs.

The rims that are one piece can be a real nuisance when disturbed

Jan 21, 2021 - 2:39:05 PM
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11074 posts since 10/27/2006

No warranty?

Hmmm… let's see… a) you're not the original owner or b) you didn't buy it new from an authorized dealer or c) it was bought after the model was discontinued.

>Acquired a new old stock rk g25 6 string <

If the seller purchased after these were discontinued, then (c) is correct and the dealer purchased it without warranty. The Warranty is part of the cost of an instrument—when discounted as a close-out, you don't get warranty support because no one paid for it.

So, your post wasn't quite clear. Did the tube pull over the bead or did the bead fail by de-laminating?

If the lamination failed, I've repaired many over the years with original Tite Bond.

I can't say that I've ever seen a tube stretch out and pull over the bead. If so, a new tube would be the proper repair. 

Prucha makes replacement tube and plate kits. I don't know if the tubes only are available separately.

Prucha Tube and Plate Kit

So, one way or the other, your banjo is repairable. Worst case, you can do a rim changeout with Prucha parts.

Edited by - mikehalloran on 01/21/2021 14:47:00

Jan 21, 2021 - 7:31:47 PM

4 posts since 11/1/2020

I traded for this sight unseen from an authorized dealer who had this in inventory for 2 years and is supposedly new, never sold. When it arrived I noticed several hooks loose on the bass side. I removed the resonator and saw 3 of nuts on the hooks really cranked up showing quite a bit of thread on each hook and noticed the tube curve up above the bead. I disassembled the pot, pulled down on the tube and it snapped into place, put a new head, tension ring and hooks back in place, ran all the nuts on finger tight and proceeded to slowly tension the head checking with a drum dial. As I tried to bring the tension up the tube once again began to curve up above the bead. I can't see any physical damage to the rim and am wondering if either the rim or tube were machined incorrectly.

Jan 21, 2021 - 7:46:45 PM

4582 posts since 11/20/2004

Could the tube be broken and spreading with pressure? If it snaps in, does not sound as if its the wrong size

Jan 22, 2021 - 2:01:39 AM
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Players Union Member

Helix

USA

13440 posts since 8/30/2006

the machinists at Gibson were so good that they were able to click the tube in place and assemble the rim right side up instead of upside down.

The ledge is reduced to 10-3/4" so the lip is only 1/8".

You can easily add material like Mr. Halloran has described.
I disagree that the tubes are structurally weaker.
They are certainly stronger than pot metal.

Jan 22, 2021 - 11:21:37 AM

11074 posts since 10/27/2006

quote:
Originally posted by Frailer24

I traded for this sight unseen from an authorized dealer who had this in inventory for 2 years …


The G25 was introduced Dec. 2011 for the 2012 catalog. It was one of many models on the late 2016–early 2017 close-out list along with every other model sporting a rosewood fretboard.

The new 2017 CITIES and US F&G regulations caused TML to switch over to alternate fretboards. Many models were never re-introduced including the Madison G25 six string banjo.

If the dealer purchased it during the close-out, there would be no warranty. In April 2017, I was turning down orders because I could not buy them new at any price.

I did a few with Kavanjo pickups. The LaBella silk'n'steel strings that were installed on these new didn't work with that pickup at all. I found a D'Addario stainless steel roundwound that complimented these nicely.


 

Jan 22, 2021 - 4:15:48 PM
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4 posts since 11/1/2020

Thanks to all for your comments. I actually took it apart again and used Helix suggestion of shimming the tube with toothpicks to space it evenly and was able to bring head tension to an even 90 lbs. With no problems. Using ghs pf120 strings and have the sound I was looking for. Thanks again.

Jan 22, 2021 - 6:35:16 PM

11074 posts since 10/27/2006

quote:
Originally posted by Frailer24

Thanks to all for your comments. I actually took it apart again and used Helix suggestion of shimming the tube with toothpicks to space it evenly and was able to bring head tension to an even 90 lbs. With no problems. Using ghs pf120 strings and have the sound I was looking for. Thanks again.


That's great!

Can you post pictures ?

Jan 23, 2021 - 3:42:28 AM
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Players Union Member

Helix

USA

13440 posts since 8/30/2006

Frailer24 You did great, I'm real proud of you, that's a good banjo to have.  Now you have conquered a 1/8" ledge with patience.   I need more myself. 

My example: A gold-plated Alvarez pot metal flange was now tiny a little bent and sent to me in the mail. I write this way for the fun of it.

On disassembly, someone had inserted dry strips of wood unglued and they just fell out.

Not all banjo rims are numbered and out of round, just some.
So adding wood was not as easy as one would think. Experienced turners will tell you about a double radius rim which occurs when flipping the rim over and stretching the blank to center up again. I use same center turning where you install the outside jaws before removing the inside ones.

So, now play on. Here's where words cannot express my gratitude for this new year. So a little photo, come on.


Edited by - Helix on 01/23/2021 03:45:24

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