I have a 10 3/4" top tension rim and resonator I got free, which I'd like to use for a build. The rim is fairly heavy metal, with an integral tone ring and flange. It appears to be good quality. Since i don't have the tension ring, and don't want to buy one even if one was available, I thought I'd drill ot the threaded holes in the flange to use normal hooks and nuts, with a simple home made steel tension ring. Before I do that, I'd like to get an idea of how valuable this rim might be.
here are pictures:
I don't know a value but I'm just trying to figure out how to attach a neck on to that thing. The flange doesn't have a neck notch.
What does it say at the tailpiece end of the flange?
Edited by - buckholler on 01/18/2021 14:46:25
It says "8907" and "Pats. Pend." below that. I assume 8907 is a serial number, but I can't find any other maker marks on the rim. Or resonator.
The flange is actually right at the bottom of the rim. I think a neck extension running beneath the flange to some kind of a bracket at the tailpiece end will work for attachment. I could drill through the flange and put a screw into the neck extension for good measure. Too bad I don't have any of the other hardware that goes with this rim.
It looks like a Ludwig rim and resonator.
quote:
Originally posted by deestexasIt looks like a Ludwig rim and resonator.
No, the Ludwig has a three piece pot.
It looks like a Ludwig Kingston to me. That model went through a couple rim designs.
quote:
Originally posted by Nic PennsylvaniaIt looks like a Ludwig Kingston to me. That model went through a couple rim designs.
Looks like you are right. 
quote:
Originally posted by Dan Drabekquote:
Originally posted by deestexasIt looks like a Ludwig rim and resonator.
No, the Ludwig has a three piece pot.
Hey! I got one of those, too. I'm saving that for a more serious build, but the same question applies. Will I be ruining some valuable collector's item if I adapt it to use normal tension hooks?
I wouldn't do it. Those top tension Ludwigs are a bit notorious as the pot metal often cracks. Those three piece Ludwigs are a different story. What's more, if you're looking at then for a five string project, there's a whole other issue as most Ludwig models had tension hoops practically against the heel of the neck. Ludwig, to the best of my knowledge, never made a five string banjo. What five string conversions I've seen have ommited one of the hooks to accommodate a wider five string neck.
I'd either sell it or hunt for a Ludwig top tension hoop. I've seen them come up a couple times.
Speaking of the first rim I posted, it's not pot metal. The tension hoops themselves probably were, and that's why I don't have one - most of them crack. The rim itself rings like a bell, and I can see bronze or brass where some of the plating has been scratched off. I'm pretty sure the second rim is the same, but I haven't examined it closely for a while. In fact, I'm not sure I have that third piece. I have the rim itself, and the scalloped tone ring. Where does the third piece go?
quote:
Originally posted by Nic PennsylvaniaI wouldn't do it. Those top tension Ludwigs are a bit notorious as the pot metal often cracks. Those three piece Ludwigs are a different story. What's more, if you're looking at them for a five string project, there's a whole other issue as most Ludwig models had tension hooks practically against the heel of the neck. Ludwig, to the best of my knowledge, never made a five string banjo. What five string conversions I've seen have ommited one of the hooks to accommodate a wider five string neck.
I'd either sell it or hunt for a Ludwig top tension hoop. I've seen them come up a couple times.
Nic Pennsylvania What would you consider a fair price for these rims?
Sorry for the doubled-post. I only meant to make some spelling corrections.
I don't know what other people think, bit maybe $150? That doesn't seem unreasonable to me, but Ludwig stuff seems to be an unreliable game of chance. Everything I see points to the photographer rim and resonator as being from a Ludwig Kingston, so I'm basing everything off what I've seen those go for and then breaking it down by parts.
Without the top-tension band, value is nil, IMO. The least expensive and easiest option would be to drill out the holes, find a 10-3/4" grooved tension hoop and flat hooks.
When I referred to a three piece 'pot', I included the tension hoop in that count, since tension hoops for the upper end Ludwigs are scarce, but necessary. I've converted two ludwigs to five strings, but I have always chosen the Capitol model which are common, and have nickel plated brass tension hoops.
To accommodate the wider neck where it attaches to the pot, I simply bend two of the hooks in a simple "S" shape which flairs them out just far enough to miss touching the neck, but still fits in the proper holes. It works perfectly. (shown in the photo.
That's a fancy heel.
quote:
Originally posted by Dan DrabekWhen I referred to a three piece 'pot', I included the tension hoop in that count, since tension hoops for the upper end Ludwigs are scarce, but necessary. I've converted two ludwigs to five strings, but I have always chosen the Capitol model which are common, and have nickel plated brass tension hoops.
To accommodate the wider neck where it attaches to the pot, I simply bend two of the hooks in a simple "S" shape which flairs them out just far enough to miss touching the neck, but still fits in the proper holes. It works perfectly. (shown in the photo.
Yeah, Dan, that's about what I was thinking. Although, for the better rim, I'm mulling over the possibility of soldering up a tension hoop from brass and keeping it top-tension. I think that could be done two ways - 1) cut sectors of brass for the flange part of the tension hoop (not the rim flange) and bend a hoop from thin brass such as 1/16", soldering the flange sectors on, or 2) bending a thicker (5/32") ring and soldering "ears" on from 3/16 or 1/4" brass stock. Does anyone know the thread size of those holes in the rims?
Dang, now I've gone and hijacked my own thread.
Edited by - Jonnycake White on 01/20/2021 08:26:02
Nic and BG, thanks for your input on the value. I think I'll leave the Kingston hoop unmodified and build a top-tension ring for it as described above. The other one, I'll do some surgery to allow normal tension hooks and a hoop to work.
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