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Jan 18, 2021 - 2:11:55 PM
2534 posts since 6/19/2008

I have a 10 3/4" top tension rim and resonator I got free, which I'd like to use for a build. The rim is fairly heavy metal, with an integral tone ring and flange. It appears to be good quality. Since i don't have the tension ring, and don't want to buy one even if one was available, I thought I'd drill ot the threaded holes in the flange to use normal hooks and nuts, with a simple home made steel tension ring. Before I do that, I'd like to get an idea of how valuable this rim might be.

Jan 18, 2021 - 2:27:17 PM

2534 posts since 6/19/2008

here are pictures:




Jan 18, 2021 - 2:42:51 PM

1616 posts since 10/12/2011

I don't know a value but I'm just trying to figure out how to attach a neck on to that thing. The flange doesn't have a neck notch.

What does it say at the tailpiece end of the flange? 

Edited by - buckholler on 01/18/2021 14:46:25

Jan 18, 2021 - 3:00:20 PM

2534 posts since 6/19/2008

It says "8907" and "Pats. Pend." below that. I assume 8907 is a serial number, but I can't find any other maker marks on the rim. Or resonator.

The flange is actually right at the bottom of the rim. I think a neck extension running beneath the flange to some kind of a bracket at the tailpiece end will work for attachment. I could drill through the flange and put a screw into the neck extension for good measure. Too bad I don't have any of the other hardware that goes with this rim.

Jan 18, 2021 - 3:08:51 PM
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1451 posts since 4/13/2009

It looks like a Ludwig rim and resonator.

Jan 18, 2021 - 4:51:04 PM

7897 posts since 1/7/2005

quote:
Originally posted by deestexas

It looks like a Ludwig rim and resonator.


No, the Ludwig has a three piece pot.

Jan 18, 2021 - 4:54:39 PM

234 posts since 4/14/2014

It looks like a Ludwig Kingston to me. That model went through a couple rim designs.

Jan 18, 2021 - 6:08:21 PM
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7897 posts since 1/7/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Nic Pennsylvania

It looks like a Ludwig Kingston to me. That model went through a couple rim designs.


Looks like you are right. yes

Jan 18, 2021 - 6:11:27 PM

2534 posts since 6/19/2008

quote:
Originally posted by Dan Drabek
quote:
Originally posted by deestexas

It looks like a Ludwig rim and resonator.


No, the Ludwig has a three piece pot.


Hey! I got one of those, too.  I'm saving that for a more serious build, but the same question applies. Will I be ruining some valuable collector's item if I adapt it to use normal tension hooks?

Jan 18, 2021 - 6:20:50 PM

234 posts since 4/14/2014

I wouldn't do it. Those top tension Ludwigs are a bit notorious as the pot metal often cracks. Those three piece Ludwigs are a different story. What's more, if you're looking at then for a five string project, there's a whole other issue as most Ludwig models had tension hoops practically against the heel of the neck. Ludwig, to the best of my knowledge, never made a five string banjo. What five string conversions I've seen have ommited one of the hooks to accommodate a wider five string neck.

I'd either sell it or hunt for a Ludwig top tension hoop. I've seen them come up a couple times.

Jan 18, 2021 - 7:18:38 PM

2534 posts since 6/19/2008

Speaking of the first rim I posted, it's not pot metal. The tension hoops themselves probably were, and that's why I don't have one - most of them crack. The rim itself rings like a bell, and I can see bronze or brass where some of the plating has been scratched off. I'm pretty sure the second rim is the same, but I haven't examined it closely for a while. In fact, I'm not sure I have that third piece. I have the rim itself, and the scalloped tone ring. Where does the third piece go?

Jan 19, 2021 - 6:40:25 AM

234 posts since 4/14/2014

quote:
Originally posted by Nic Pennsylvania

I wouldn't do it. Those top tension Ludwigs are a bit notorious as the pot metal often cracks. Those three piece Ludwigs are a different story. What's more, if you're looking at them for a five string project, there's a whole other issue as most Ludwig models had tension hooks practically against the heel of the neck. Ludwig, to the best of my knowledge, never made a five string banjo. What five string conversions I've seen have ommited one of the hooks to accommodate a wider five string neck.

I'd either sell it or hunt for a Ludwig top tension hoop. I've seen them come up a couple times.


Jan 19, 2021 - 8:11:31 AM

2534 posts since 6/19/2008

Nic Pennsylvania What would you consider a fair price for these rims?

Jan 19, 2021 - 8:26:50 AM

234 posts since 4/14/2014

Sorry for the doubled-post. I only meant to make some spelling corrections.

I don't know what other people think, bit maybe $150? That doesn't seem unreasonable to me, but Ludwig stuff seems to be an unreliable game of chance. Everything I see points to the photographer rim and resonator as being from a Ludwig Kingston, so I'm basing everything off what I've seen those go for and then breaking it down by parts.

Jan 19, 2021 - 9:00 AM

beegee

USA

22181 posts since 7/6/2005

Without the top-tension band, value is nil, IMO. The least expensive and easiest option would be to drill out the holes, find a 10-3/4" grooved tension hoop and flat hooks.

Jan 19, 2021 - 9:18:23 AM
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7897 posts since 1/7/2005

When I referred to a three piece 'pot', I included the tension hoop in that count, since tension hoops for the upper end Ludwigs are scarce, but necessary. I've converted two ludwigs to five strings, but I have always chosen the Capitol model which are common, and have nickel plated brass tension hoops.

To accommodate the wider neck where it attaches to the pot, I simply bend two of the hooks in a simple "S" shape which flairs them out just far enough to miss touching the neck, but still fits in the proper holes. It works perfectly. (shown in the photo.

Jan 19, 2021 - 11:59:08 AM

234 posts since 4/14/2014

That's a fancy heel.

Jan 20, 2021 - 8:25:06 AM

2534 posts since 6/19/2008

quote:
Originally posted by Dan Drabek

When I referred to a three piece 'pot', I included the tension hoop in that count, since tension hoops for the upper end Ludwigs are scarce, but necessary. I've converted two ludwigs to five strings, but I have always chosen the Capitol model which are common, and have nickel plated brass tension hoops.

To accommodate the wider neck where it attaches to the pot, I simply bend two of the hooks in a simple "S" shape which flairs them out just far enough to miss touching the neck, but still fits in the proper holes. It works perfectly. (shown in the photo.

 


Yeah, Dan, that's about what I was thinking.  Although, for the better rim, I'm mulling over the possibility of soldering up a tension hoop from brass and keeping it top-tension.  I think that could be done two ways - 1) cut sectors of brass for the flange part of the tension hoop (not the rim flange) and bend a hoop from thin brass such as 1/16", soldering the flange sectors on, or 2) bending a thicker (5/32") ring and soldering "ears" on from 3/16 or 1/4" brass stock.  Does anyone know the thread size of those holes in the rims?

Dang, now I've gone and hijacked my own thread.

Edited by - Jonnycake White on 01/20/2021 08:26:02

Jan 20, 2021 - 8:30:28 AM
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2534 posts since 6/19/2008

Nic and BG, thanks for your input on the value. I think I'll leave the Kingston hoop unmodified and build a top-tension ring for it as described above. The other one, I'll do some surgery to allow normal tension hooks and a hoop to work.

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