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Jan 13, 2021 - 7:11:17 PM

Owen

Canada

7424 posts since 6/5/2011

... can lead to rapid increases in strength and fitness [* = well, truth be told there's a bit more to it than simply "4 seconds"]:       

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/30/well/move/can-4-seconds-of-exercise-make-a-difference.html#:~:text=In%20what%20is%20probably%20the,and%20general%20physical%20performance%20among

The concept isn't totally new.  But it's only a few years since a specialist in internal medicine told me that THE important factor was to make it 30 minutes of continuous exercise per day .... i.e. continuous was/is 'way more important than the intensity level.

Jan 13, 2021 - 7:25:34 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

54709 posts since 10/5/2013

a mediocre specialist, Owen?

Jan 13, 2021 - 8:20:23 PM
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Omeboy

USA

2705 posts since 6/27/2013

I tend to follow Mark Twain's advice on exercise. Twain said that sometimes he was overcome with the urge to engage in vigorous exercise, but he would always go lie down until the feeling passed.

Jan 13, 2021 - 8:25:50 PM

Owen

Canada

7424 posts since 6/5/2011

I dunno, Chuck...........  but I slacked off on my exercise [i.e the regimen he prescribed] over the summer and my triglyceride and blood sugar levels went up a bit.  It was about 3 years ago, but he also mentioned that most family physicians were probably still unaware of the need for the 30 minutes to be continuous

Fwiw, he's the one that, when my wife started to ask him something regarding what diabetics should eat, thrust his finger toward my chest and said: "Forget that diet bull****.... your job is to get fit!"   

Edited by - Owen on 01/13/2021 20:26:48

Jan 13, 2021 - 8:32:22 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

54709 posts since 10/5/2013

Well, I wawk at least 45 minutes a day,, with some hills along the way, which I jog up. Couldn’t do that last year. I’m still not on any prescription drugs, but I need to get blood work done soon,,,it’s been over a year and a half.

Jan 13, 2021 - 9:55:16 PM

Chris Meakin

Australia

3028 posts since 5/15/2011

My understanding is the 30 mins continuous refers to a sustained heart rate a certain percentage of maximum HR

The formula for calculating max HR of the average person (ie not supreme athletes, who have a sig. higher max HR) that's been around a while is 220-age. (Another, more refined method of calculating max HR is 214-(0.8 x age) for men, and 209-(0.9 x age) for women).

For endurance, general fitness and weight loss, most experts recommend  65-75% of max HR for 30 mins, and even starting out at just 50% of max HR for the very overweight and unfit.

For a 70 year old person: 220-70 = 150. 150 * 0.65-0.75 = stay in the range 97-112 bpm for 30 mins. You should be able to talk in short sentences, but not for example be able to recite Homers Odyssey or sing a song. If you're struggling to  talk even a sentence, you're going too hard and approaching your anaerobic threshold. 

More recently HIIT has become in vogue. This doesn't work for everyone and seems determined to some extent by genetic make up. There are many forms of HIIT and other training methods similar to but not quite HIIT (there is some confusion on what HIIT actually is, even among serious cyclists, runners, etc). I do interval training where I ride up the hill outside parliament house as hard as I can. This takes me 50 secs and I'm usually at ~96% of max HR for the second half. I ride slowly around the building which takes me 6 mins, then repeat the hill climb. I do this usually for 7-8 laps. (It's possible to exceed the calc max HR - I regularly hit 104% on very steep hills - but this is only recommended in quite fit people). I found this partic. regime (laps of parly house) and riding up hills around Canberra where my HR is ~85-90% max HR for a few mins each time vastly improved my endurance riding.

If you're keen on getting fitter, I recommend you read up on the various training regimes. I find a mix of quite a lot of endurance training (~70% of max HR) 5-6 days a week, with some HIIT thrown in 2-3 days a week is a good mix. (PS Don't forget the (additional) weight bearing exercises, which are also important in any fitness regime).

Dean might chime. He'll be all over this stuff with his triathlete training.

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert, I just know what's worked for me over the past four decades.

Edited by - Chris Meakin on 01/13/2021 22:10:20

Jan 14, 2021 - 3:21:53 AM
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OM45GE

USA

103031 posts since 11/7/2007

I get my exercise jumping to conclusions.

Jan 14, 2021 - 3:26:24 AM
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OM45GE

USA

103031 posts since 11/7/2007

Seriously, any physical activity is beneficial short of injury. I used to be a runner until my knees gave up the fight. Now, after knee replacement, I walk 5 to 10 miles a day, ski and mountain bike. I also use the stairs instead of the elevator (even when my office was on the 11th floor). Get out there and do something!

Jan 14, 2021 - 5:26:01 AM
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DC5

USA

15879 posts since 6/30/2015

quote:
Originally posted by Owen

... can lead to rapid increases in strength and fitness [* = well, truth be told there's a bit more to it than simply "4 seconds"]:       

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/30/well/move/can-4-seconds-of-exercise-make-a-difference.html#:~:text=In%20what%20is%20probably%20the,and%20general%20physical%20performance%20among

The concept isn't totally new.  But it's only a few years since a specialist in internal medicine told me that THE important factor was to make it 30 minutes of continuous exercise per day .... i.e. continuous was/is 'way more important than the intensity level.


Is that 4 seconds all at once, or stretched out over a week?

Jan 14, 2021 - 5:27:55 AM
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DC5

USA

15879 posts since 6/30/2015

quote:
Originally posted by OM45GE

Seriously, any physical activity is beneficial short of injury. I used to be a runner until my knees gave up the fight. Now, after knee replacement, I walk 5 to 10 miles a day, ski and mountain bike. I also use the stairs instead of the elevator (even when my office was on the 11th floor). Get out there and do something!


My right index finger has been moving like crazy ever since I logged onto the BHO this morning.

Jan 14, 2021 - 5:45:31 AM
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OM45GE

USA

103031 posts since 11/7/2007

quote:
Originally posted by DC5
quote:
Originally posted by OM45GE

Seriously, any physical activity is beneficial short of injury. I used to be a runner until my knees gave up the fight. Now, after knee replacement, I walk 5 to 10 miles a day, ski and mountain bike. I also use the stairs instead of the elevator (even when my office was on the 11th floor). Get out there and do something!


My right index finger has been moving like crazy ever since I logged onto the BHO this morning.


I wonder if 12 ounce arm curls count

Jan 14, 2021 - 7:02:32 AM

Owen

Canada

7424 posts since 6/5/2011

 
Originally posted by Chris Meakin

<snip> I do interval training where I ride up the hill outside parliament house as hard as I can. This takes me 50 secs and I'm usually at ~96% of max HR for the second half. I ride slowly around the building which takes me 6 mins, then repeat the hill climb. I do this usually for 7-8 laps. <snip>

...I'm reminded that part of Peter Snell's training involved "hill circuits."   https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20783376/how-peter-snell-trained-for-a-wr-1-44-3-on-grass-in-1962/

Jan 14, 2021 - 7:05:54 AM
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figmo59

USA

32329 posts since 3/5/2008

At this point in me Life...there is one excirsize...

That can think of....
That Lasts...4 seconds...fer sure.... :0/

Jan 14, 2021 - 7:09:19 AM

figmo59

USA

32329 posts since 3/5/2008

It is...4 intese...seconds... ;0)

Jan 14, 2021 - 7:23:13 AM
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305 posts since 4/11/2019

Rodney Dangerfield -

" The eight hours of bulls*t is not worth the eight seconds"

Jan 14, 2021 - 7:35:48 AM
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heavy5

USA

1442 posts since 11/3/2016

Don't let your meatloaf !

Jan 14, 2021 - 7:38:43 AM
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2397 posts since 2/10/2013

Owen - I am a type II diabetic and have attended a course set up for diabetics. Specific types of foods and the amount of foods eaten are part of managing diabetes. Exercise is also a part of the program. Correcting an overweight condition can dramatically reduce diabetic symptoms. Several people in my diabetic class had corrected an overweight condition and their diabetes went into remission.

Note there are two types of diabetes. Type II is easier to manage. The nurse teaching the course said the majority of the people with Type II diabetes are probably not aware of the fact they have this problem. I did not know I had the problem until after I retired. BTW, the diabetic diet is an effective and inexpensive way to lose weight and become healthier at the same time.

Jan 14, 2021 - 7:49:21 AM

phb

Germany

2345 posts since 11/8/2010

@Chris_Meakin: 

Calculated max HR is not very useful because the max HR varies more among individuals than with age. There are people with quick beating hearts and people with slow beating hearts. For each individual the max HR drops with lifetime. The max HR is not linked to how fit one is. I reached 210 bpm HR when running up a hill nearby for interval training. At that time I ran a halfmarathon in 90 minutes. My resting pulse rate never got below 50bpm. I'm a quick beater.

The problem with calculated HR is that the quick beaters often do not train as hard as they should if they use the HR as a training parameter. The best is to do some very heavy interval training like uphill running or cycling. The max HR you see is then approximately 90% of your physiological max HR.

Edited by - phb on 01/14/2021 07:53:48

Jan 14, 2021 - 12:06:56 PM
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Chris Meakin

Australia

3028 posts since 5/15/2011

quote:
Originally posted by phb

@Chris_Meakin: 

Calculated max HR is not very useful because the max HR varies more among individuals than with age. There are people with quick beating hearts and people with slow beating hearts. For each individual the max HR drops with lifetime. The max HR is not linked to how fit one is. I reached 210 bpm HR when running up a hill nearby for interval training. At that time I ran a halfmarathon in 90 minutes. My resting pulse rate never got below 50bpm. I'm a quick beater.

The problem with calculated HR is that the quick beaters often do not train as hard as they should if they use the HR as a training parameter. The best is to do some very heavy interval training like uphill running or cycling. The max HR you see is then approximately 90% of your physiological max HR.


I agree 100% but I didn't want to complicate things. The two formulae I gave are just rules of thumb, but I still think they are useful, and that's why I also included the bit about 'perceived exertion' - should be able to converse with a training buddy, at least in short sentences but not for example make a long winded speech nor be gasping for breathe (if you want to train in the aerobic/endurance zone).

Here is a more accurate method for calculating your max HR for those that are interested:

https://www.cycling-inform.com/how-to-test-for-your-cycling-max-heart-rate

and some supplementary reading https://www.cycling-inform.com/how-to-use-heart-rate-monitor-and-zones-to-improve-your-cycling

I'm still in the 'max HR will increase with fitness' camp though https://www.cycling-inform.com/how-does-your-max-heart-rate-increase

Edited by - Chris Meakin on 01/14/2021 12:09:57

Jan 14, 2021 - 12:26:09 PM
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Brian T

Canada

17550 posts since 6/5/2008

Standing up, pain-free, is an accomplishment. Avoid tipping over is another big deal.
Yesterday, I walked enough for a Dr. appointment then shopped in 3 stores.
Surely not more than 100 yards of walking with a cane and did it without much pain at all.
Pretty happy with myself when I got home. That helps too.

Jan 14, 2021 - 5:31:42 PM
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6147 posts since 9/5/2006

quote:
Originally posted by figmo59

It is...4 intese...seconds... ;0)


yeah thats about right,,,, and it is intense,,, for me anyway

Jan 15, 2021 - 2:06:19 PM
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DeanT

USA

36264 posts since 7/28/2005

quote:

Dean might chime. He'll be all over this stuff with his triathlete training.


Life is all about choice and consequence. We all know the rules about eating, weight, diet, exercise, and health.  I've been telling people around me for years, that we are all who we want to be, by the choices we make, and the things in life that we prioritize. I've personally been training for marathons and triathlons forever. I'm over 60, and work out about 25 hours a week. I'm still at my high school weight, and the last time I took the Air Force fitness test (last year), I scored 100, by standards for kids 1/3 my age. I haven't been to a doctor, since my last military check up, before retiring, and I'm not on any meds. However... I'll also be the first to admit, I push it to the limit. I've had friends my age, fall over dead doing this stuff. But it's a risk I'm willing to take. There are also sacrifices. I  used to enjoy smoking, and I used to over indulge in drinking. Two things I don't touch anymore, and I envy you guys who do. I pass on a lot of junk food, and again, I envy you guys who enjoy pizza and hamburgers whenever you want. The time I spend working out, is also time that I could be lounging around, watching TV, surfing the internet, and spending tons of money on big toys and expensive hobbies... whatever. But for now, I'm choosing health and fitness as my priority. We all do what we want. 

And as for heart rate... I've never cared. I never check it. I never worry about it. I do everything by perceived effort, and muscle feel. My heart is a lot smarter than I am, and knows what it needs to do, to keep me going. So I just let it do it's job, and don't over manage it. I'm still alive, so it's done a pretty good job. 


 

Edited by - DeanT on 01/15/2021 14:14:55

Jan 15, 2021 - 2:14:27 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

54709 posts since 10/5/2013

I envy your motivation, Dean. You’re a good example for many.

Jan 16, 2021 - 7:07:48 AM
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2397 posts since 2/10/2013

My mind tells me a longer period of moderate exercise would be less dangerous than a shorter more intensive exercise period.

Jan 16, 2021 - 8:15:46 AM
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DC5

USA

15879 posts since 6/30/2015

I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to die, but there is not need to rush it. I managed to lose almost 20 pounds, and trying to lose another 5, but not going to kill myself doing it. I'm happy if I don't gain any back. My knees are much happier for it. I do moderate exercise, more in summer than winter. My resting heart rate is under 60 BPM, I have low blood pressure, and my cholesterol hovers around 200. My doctor panics every time it goes up to 202, but ignores me when it's down to 168. I only take one med for an under-active thyroid. When I drink it's no more than 1, but I cannot see going the rest of my life with none. If I had a problem, like my father did, I wouldn't drink at all. I have the occasional pizza or Chinese food, or maybe a burrito at the local Mexican restaurant, but mostly I eat salad for dinner. I'll be having a bacon wrapped filet Mignon for lunch today, but it's my birthday. Just like we have Eggs Benedict on Christmas morning. Nothing I do will prevent me from dying, but there's a lot that will accelerate it. I'm doing what I can to enjoy whatever time I have left, without over enjoying it.

Jan 18, 2021 - 4:14:46 AM

phb

Germany

2345 posts since 11/8/2010

When I found that being a specialist in something makes me a highly undesired conversational partner, I decided to rather be mediocre in a multitude of things (including running and playing the banjo)...

As for ruining your knees, the easiest way to achieve this is to NOT stress them. Gristle and tendons are passive tissue which means that blood doesn't flow through them. Their metabolism depends on them being compressed and relaxed so that fluid may leave and enter again. Thus, if you want strong tendons and gristles, you have to use them. Of course, if you overdo it, you will harm them just as well. But that is harder to do because it takes some effort.

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