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Dec 5, 2020 - 8:33:28 AM
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5434 posts since 9/16/2004

....from a man's POV

It seems that modern women often see themselves as more outgoing and more adventurous than the women of the past, e.g., the stereotypical twentieth century housewife... however, in the age of Amelia Earhart, woman were doing things equally adventurous as any women alive today.  

https://www.hagerty.com/media/people/two-decades-before-hidden-figures-engineer-beatrice-shilling-made-british-aviation-history/?utm_source=SFMC&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20_December_5_Newsletter_Weekend

Dec 5, 2020 - 8:56:37 AM
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figmo59

USA

32349 posts since 3/5/2008

I live with one that keeps me....
Perplexed.... :0/....

;0)

Dec 5, 2020 - 10:43:41 AM
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Brian T

Canada

17592 posts since 6/5/2008

The local ranch women need to ride and rope like the boys. They can. All day long.

Women's historical roles in science and exploration have largely been suppressed in descriptions.
From radium to NASA and beyond, they have done quite a good job.

Dec 5, 2020 - 11:06:48 AM
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m06

England

9554 posts since 10/5/2006
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It's simply a matter of opportunity.

Thankfully a greater proportion of women now have wider opportunity. And when there is wider uptake of opportunity those far more diverse individual narratives are not portrayed as 'daredevil' or unusual.

Wider opportunity is a pre-requisite for cultural change.

Edited by - m06 on 12/05/2020 11:13:15

Dec 5, 2020 - 11:14:41 AM
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5434 posts since 9/16/2004

During World War Two, women filled in as their men went across the seas to fight and defend freedom.  Beyond their competency, they were attractive in more ways than one.  Naomi Parker Fraley is currently accredted as the World War Two, "Two Rosie the Riviter" poster model.  That's Naomi on the right, running a Pratt Whitney Vertical Shaper.




Edited by - Frisco Fred on 12/05/2020 11:20:47

Dec 5, 2020 - 11:30:51 AM
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1443 posts since 7/14/2004

Another amazing woman, Ann Montague Alexander. North American explorer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Montague_Alexander


Edited by - Sheenjack on 12/05/2020 11:33:00

Dec 6, 2020 - 7:03:21 AM
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5434 posts since 9/16/2004

The World War Two British Wrens rode day and night, across country to critical war documents.  

https://www.juliakellywrites.com/blog/motorcycle-dispatch-riders 


 

Edited by - Frisco Fred on 12/06/2020 07:06:20

Dec 6, 2020 - 7:04:27 AM
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60 posts since 11/28/2015

Gertrude Bell

Dec 6, 2020 - 7:23:31 AM
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11242 posts since 1/15/2005
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Whew .... I thought this was going to be about the Vanderbilt woman football player that kicked a 20 yard "squib" kick last week!wink

Dec 6, 2020 - 9:38:42 AM

banjo bill-e

Tuvalu

10593 posts since 2/22/2007

Oh John, you forgot to mention that the kickoff was "perfectly executed". I almost fell out of my chair when I read that one! A perfectly executed kickoff that went nowhere -----without one word of criticism, only lavish praise.
I do think that the kick was not returnable on purpose, because sometimes the kicker is the only one left to stop the receiver from scoring, and that requires a tackling a big man running very fast, which is a different matter from pooching ball a few yards.
But it's a triumph for equality and all that.

Dec 6, 2020 - 11:12:55 AM
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11242 posts since 1/15/2005
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quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

Oh John, you forgot to mention that the kickoff was "perfectly executed". I almost fell out of my chair when I read that one! A perfectly executed kickoff that went nowhere -----without one word of criticism, only lavish praise.
I do think that the kick was not returnable on purpose, because sometimes the kicker is the only one left to stop the receiver from scoring, and that requires a tackling a big man running very fast, which is a different matter from pooching ball a few yards.
But it's a triumph for equality and all that.


Yeah Bill, it was that "perfectly executed" kick designed to go out of bounds after 20 yards (rescued by the receiving team jumping on it before it went out of bounds) when your team is behind 21-0 to start the second half.  The good part was that she had "Play Like Girls" on the back of her helmet and after her half-time pep talk, Vandy went out and did just that.

Dec 7, 2020 - 6:11:21 AM
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phb

Germany

2362 posts since 11/8/2010

Women commonly referred to as "Trümmerfrauen" ("debris women") rebuilt this country while their husbands, fathers, sons and brothers were either dead or imprisoned. They had to pick up all sorts of professions that previously were reserved for men. Until in the 1950s the remaining men returned from captivity and demanded the world of old be restored and women be relegated back to householding.

Dec 7, 2020 - 6:35:39 AM

5434 posts since 9/16/2004

quote:
Originally posted by phb

Women commonly referred to as "Trümmerfrauen" ("debris women") rebuilt this country while their husbands, fathers, sons and brothers were either dead or imprisoned. They had to pick up all sorts of professions that previously were reserved for men. Until in the 1950s the remaining men returned from captivity and demanded the world of old be restored and women be relegated back to householding.


A cinema perspective of the relative roles of men and women from the 1930's 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STjiY2cKA3E

Dec 7, 2020 - 7:44:13 AM
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2417 posts since 2/10/2013

In the Soviet Union, women fought in the same capacity as men. This was a shock to the German soldiers. A female aviation unit which flew at night was feared by the German soldiers. Russian women did not serve as substitutes on the home front, they served in the front lines as well. One of the most effective Soviet snipers was a female soldier.

The role of women varies in different cultures. IMHO the technical knowledge of a country has no bearing on the social levels of women in that country. If I am not wrong, this seems to have happened later in western society. When I lived in an Asiatic country, the male was the "boss" on the street, but when the couple entered the home, the lady became the "boss".

Dec 7, 2020 - 7:58:43 AM
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banjo bill-e

Tuvalu

10593 posts since 2/22/2007

--"the male was the "boss" on the street, but when the couple entered the home, the lady became the "boss".--"

A wise policy, reflecting biological reality and allowing differences with equality. The male and the female are complimentary and the strength of one is not the strength of the other. The two quite literally complete each other. I am only speaking of actual males and females, and saying nothing about those who fall in other categories.

Dec 7, 2020 - 2:00:29 PM
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m06

England

9554 posts since 10/5/2006
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These ATS women were Royal Signals wireless operators located at a top secret Y-station hidden in the grounds of Kedleston Hall, Derbyshire 1943/45. They worked relentless 8-hour shifts round-the-clock finding, listening-in and intercepting encoded Enigma military communications. Their transcripts were immediately sent by motorcycle despatch rider to Bletchley Park for decoding by Alan Turing and his team.

The taller of the two women in the doorway, with her arm behind her back, is my mum. And yes, that is a cat.smiley


 

Edited by - m06 on 12/07/2020 14:11:48

Dec 7, 2020 - 2:22:28 PM

73808 posts since 5/9/2007
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My three wives are all fascinating.
My friends are also quite spell-binding.
Lucky me.

Dec 7, 2020 - 2:44:55 PM
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5434 posts since 9/16/2004

quote:
Originally posted by m06

These ATS women were Royal Signals wireless operators located at a top secret Y-station hidden in the grounds of Kedleston Hall, Derbyshire 1943/45. They worked relentless 8-hour shifts round-the-clock finding, listening-in and intercepting encoded Enigma military communications. Their transcripts were immediately sent by motorcycle despatch rider to Bletchley Park for decoding by Alan Turing and his team.

The taller of the two women in the doorway, with her arm behind her back, is my mum. And yes, that is a cat.smiley


Your best post... IMO

Dec 7, 2020 - 2:54:44 PM
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m06

England

9554 posts since 10/5/2006
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quote:
Originally posted by Frisco Fred
quote:
Originally posted by m06

These ATS women were Royal Signals wireless operators located at a top secret Y-station hidden in the grounds of Kedleston Hall, Derbyshire 1943/45. They worked relentless 8-hour shifts round-the-clock finding, listening-in and intercepting encoded Enigma military communications. Their transcripts were immediately sent by motorcycle despatch rider to Bletchley Park for decoding by Alan Turing and his team.

The taller of the two women in the doorway, with her arm behind her back, is my mum. And yes, that is a cat.smiley


Your best post... IMO


My mum lived until 2010 and though the family knew she served in the ATS during WW2, she only revealed her actual Y-station intercept work very late in life when the story of the Bletchley Park codebreakers finally emerged. When asked why the 60-year silence, she said because she'd signed the Official Secrets Act in 1942. An amazing generation who quietly took duty, integrity and their word as paramount.

Edited by - m06 on 12/07/2020 14:59:58

Dec 7, 2020 - 2:54:45 PM

56505 posts since 12/14/2005

Was she your mum at the time?

Or did she become  Mum 06 after the intercepted messages had led to Mr. Hitler's sudden and widely celebrated demise?

Dec 7, 2020 - 2:58:31 PM

m06

England

9554 posts since 10/5/2006
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quote:
Originally posted by mike gregory

Was she your mum at the time?

Or did she become  Mum 06 after the intercepted messages had led to Mr. Hitler's sudden and widely celebrated demise?


She was my dad's sweetheart when that photo was taken (they married in September 1945). I have two elder sisters and came along much later. wink

Dec 7, 2020 - 3:44:05 PM

m06

England

9554 posts since 10/5/2006
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Hauser

In the Soviet Union, women fought in the same capacity as men. This was a shock to the German soldiers. A female aviation unit which flew at night was feared by the German soldiers. Russian women did not serve as substitutes on the home front, they served in the front lines as well. One of the most effective Soviet snipers was a female soldier.

The role of women varies in different cultures. IMHO the technical knowledge of a country has no bearing on the social levels of women in that country. If I am not wrong, this seems to have happened later in western society. When I lived in an Asiatic country, the male was the "boss" on the street, but when the couple entered the home, the lady became the "boss".


While women did not serve in air combat in the RAF, they did do essential work ferrying new aircraft from the factories to combat squadrons. The log books of these women ferry pilots detail the most incredible list of types flown, far more types than the male pilots on the squadrons. No-one just clambered into a different type aircraft and took off, it often required type-conversion training. That demonstrates the high order type-conversion knowledge, versatility and professionalism these women had.

Today RAF or Navy front-line fast jet pilot is a role rightly open to women. But they've always had the aptitude and ability.

Edited by - m06 on 12/07/2020 15:56:09

Dec 7, 2020 - 11:58:13 PM
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phb

Germany

2362 posts since 11/8/2010

There also were women in the Luftwaffe. The most famous one was Beate Uhse who after the war founded the first shops for "marital hygiene" in Germany. She received the German Cross of Merit for her pioneering work and important role in sexual liberation.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beate_Uhse-Rotermund

Dec 8, 2020 - 12:01:02 AM

phb

Germany

2362 posts since 11/8/2010

quote:
Originally posted by m06

Today RAF or Navy front-line fast jet pilot is a role rightly open to women. But they've always had the aptitude and ability.


I read that women are usually fitter for the job of a jet fighter pilot because their body weight is more evenly distributed which is why they do not lose consciousness as easily as men when accelerating quickly.

Dec 9, 2020 - 1:11:05 AM

m06

England

9554 posts since 10/5/2006
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quote:
Originally posted by phb

There also were women in the Luftwaffe. The most famous one was Beate Uhse who after the war founded the first shops for "marital hygiene" in Germany. She received the German Cross of Merit for her pioneering work and important role in sexual liberation.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beate_Uhse-Rotermund


I just read the wikipedia article for Beate Uhse that you linked. A remarkable and inspiring woman. The mind boggles why the Flensburger Tennis Club refused to admit her for 'general concerns'! When in reality she was a woman decades ahead of her time.

It's interesting with the recent death of Chuck Jaeger how the concept of the 'Right Stuff' is revealed to be so totally culturally-determined. Beate Uhse displayed all those attributes including her improvised and daring evasion/escape from encircled Berlin (with additional altruism as well as skill and bravery as she risked herself to take her children, nanny and wounded soldiers with her). And yet no such accolades were attached to women. Why? Because culture at the time decreed that only men could have the 'right stuff'. And almost exclusively men of the same nationality as the movie/myth makers.

Thankfully we see that gender bias now for the selective cultural contrivance that it was.

Edited by - m06 on 12/09/2020 01:26:52

Dec 9, 2020 - 6:20:37 AM
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DC5

USA

16054 posts since 6/30/2015
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Women throughout history have done amazing things, but it was men who owned the publishing companies and wrote the books.

Women were originally barred from motorcycle racing, not to protect the women, but so they would not do better than the men.

My fear is that they will soon figure out that they only need a small breeding stock and they'll get rid of the rest of us.

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