Someone can never be brainwashed by something that is completely true. You can only be brainwashed by a lie.
I'll admit I haven't thought about it a whole lot, but his site https://www.britannica.com/topic/brainwashing has me thinking you could be right.... although I doubt that the bit about "...against the desire, will, or knowledge of the individual," is always correct. And I'll just leave it at that. 
Yeah, truth and lies are separate things. As far as left is from right, truth and a lie are different animals. I think somehow people are letting their academic brain get ahead of their common sense in the “enlightened” post modern culture.
I had a brain that needed washing.......I'm much better now
Edited by - chuckv97 on 11/28/2020 19:02:24
I like to take mine out & just give it quick rinse every now & then. 
What do you mean by "brainwashed" and why do you think that a lie is required?
Effective lies contain as much truth as possible.
However..... what they told me about "Integrated Delusional Systems" can be very elaborate.
One example from my own life:
A person told me, when I was at his house, that his phone was being monitored by the CIA.
When I was taking the psych portion of my college-level training, the teachers told us to say to the patients
"And what makes you feel that way??"
instead of shouting
"THAT'S THE CRAZIEST [EXPLETIVE DELETED] THING I'VE HEARD THIS WEEK!"
So I asked him, and he said I should pick up his phone and listen to the dial tone.
I did, and told him it sounded perfectly normal to MY ear.
To which he responded
"SEE? Who ELSE has got equipment THAT GOOD???"
The very fact that NO EVIDENCE could be detected, was all the evidence he needed.
My thoughts on brainwashing aren’t postable here—with good reason.
quote:
Originally posted by Doug KnechtSomeone can never be brainwashed by something that is completely true. You can only be brainwashed by a lie.
Seems not unreasonable. The problem is that brainwashers usually believe that they are purveying the truth. Further, my truth may be your lie. So I think your statement can't be an absolute.
Is this like when someone tells me to tune my banjo and I say it is already in tune?
quote:
Originally posted by MACKESSYIs this like when someone tells me to tune my banjo and I say it is already in tune?
As Bill-e asked...what do you mean by 'brainwashing'? It's usually a perjorative and loaded term that is used by people about ideas held by others that they simply don't agree with or have disdain for.
There are outright disprovable lies and falsehood that have no evidential basis. There is propaganda, manipulation and gaslighting that are varied deliberate attempts to distort in order to convince people of something that is advantageous to the active party.
But inculcation of commonly agreed norms and ideas is also how healthy socialisation and culture functions. It's a form of societal acquisition and integration through a combination of taught and exemplified behaviour that we are all subject to from birth. It's basically how we can safely assume that when you finished typing your post that you didn't go smash your neighbours windows when you heard their TV at what you consider too loud volume.
'Healthy' and 'Safely' being the operative words.
Edited by - m06 on 11/29/2020 00:30:12
Someone told me I needed brainwashing but I like my dirty mind ??
The online definitions all include the element of coercion, of forcing unwanted beliefs onto unwilling subjects by a variety of psychological manipulations. I am curious what Doug means by the term, as I do not see why the truth or untruth of the unwanted belief should matter.
Originally posted by banjo bill-e
<snip> I am curious what Doug means by the term, as I do not see why the truth or untruth of the unwanted belief should matter.
I don't dwell on it, and I could be wrong, but methinks he's poking one of the bears we shan't discuss on BHO. [Pssstt....It's happened before.] 
Edited by - Owen on 11/29/2020 06:54:00
Bill speaks the truth, " my truth may be your lie".
The truth is a truth because it happened. A lie is twisting that truth.
"But what is truth? Is truth unchanging law? We all have truths. Are mine the same as yours?" P. Pilot, Jesus Christ Superstar.
If something happened, it’s the truth. That simple
I've posted this before, but it's still funny (?) .... at least to some...... Canadians: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjAyesKyYE8
quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-eThe online definitions all include the element of coercion, of forcing unwanted beliefs onto unwilling subjects by a variety of psychological manipulations. I am curious what Doug means by the term, as I do not see why the truth or untruth of the unwanted belief should matter.
I'm intrigued. What is an 'unwanted belief' ? There are things I believe to be true but wish were not. But that's not the same thing. Do you mean the sort of techniques used by corporations to make us buy unnecessary products, described so well in Vance Packard's 'The Hidden Persuaders' over 60 years ago, but even more relevant in the age of un-traceable and un-attributed social media. You are of course correct that brainwashing people to believe that Glinto makes their teeth whiter doen't actually make Glinto make their teeth whiter.
It's probably why most all of us still retain an unhealthily large repertoire of long-ago 70's and 80's advertising jingles and associations stuck in our neural circuitry.
If I said Nimble bread*...
*- please refer to the insomnia thread when this reactivated sound virus is keeping you awake at 3am.
Edited by - m06 on 11/29/2020 10:25:29
quote:
Originally posted by AndrewD
You are of course correct that brainwashing people to believe that Glinto makes their teeth whiter doen't actually make Glinto make their teeth whiter.
It more often takes the form that having white teeth increases your chances of getting lucky, and then secondarily that Glinto is a tool towards achieving that goal.
Witness underarm shaving for women: the ads didn't emphasise the razor or creme, they emphasised the notion that shaving ones underarms was necessary to be attractive.
With the places women shave these days, I'm not quite certain exactly where those ads ran and precisely what they said.
I think the favoured location is the bathroom, but I'm not 100% sure on that.
Edited by - m06 on 11/29/2020 10:27:00
--"If something happened, it’s the truth. That simple--'
I agree. What does that have to do with brainwashing or why a lie is required?
Andrew, I would imagine whatever is indoctrinated at CCP Re-education camps counts as "unwanted beliefs" because those getting "educated" are not there by choice.
Coercion is intrinsic to the concept of brainwashing, which is not the same as merely lying or publicly spreading dis-information, though I do understand that the term may be used casually but incorrectly to mean just that. Which is why I asked for clarification from the OP.
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