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Nov 26, 2020 - 9:46:30 PM

mander

USA

4487 posts since 10/7/2007

My father was very proficient at drumming ideas into my young impressionable mind. One such belief was that is was the destiny of all clothes to become rags. "Never judge a person by their clothes. It's what's in their hearts, not what's on their backs that matters."

This idea lodged in my brain and has stayed there for decades. Since my recent move... I shock myself daily by looking at someone and thinking, "Does your mother know you left the house dressed like that?"

I have no idea where this attitude is suddenly coming from. Recently I listened to a group of young people expressing the same notion. I was shocked that such young people could be so narrow and opinionated. Am I just a really slow learner? Has fashion been important all this time and I've just been slow to notice? Or has fashion degraded itself to such a low standard that I finally care? I grew up in a city that prides itself on being "weird." My standards have always been skewed. Grateful Dead Hippies never fazed me. Why should I care now?

Nov 26, 2020 - 10:01:43 PM
Players Union Member

Brian T

Canada

17592 posts since 6/5/2008

I have always inspected my clothes to see that they are clean and free of rips and tears. All the buttons are there and done up correctly. I replace clothes when the threads begin to unravel.

Just a couple of years back, I was accused of dressing "like I was homeless." I think it was because I didn't shop for clothes once a month for the latest styles and colors. I do believe that in some businesses, looking "modern" is a very important image.
Do you think that you are caught up in that?

My favorite Carhartt coat looks like I just fed the horses and walked out of the barn.
Close to 20 years old and patched up some. I'm wearing it in the city. No blood at all on it.
I'm hard pressed to decide if I really care any more.

Nov 26, 2020 - 10:07:38 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

54858 posts since 10/5/2013
Online Now

It’s hip to be un-hip.... I go with the Neil Young look.

Edited by - chuckv97 on 11/26/2020 22:08:13

Nov 27, 2020 - 12:02:53 AM

m06

England

9554 posts since 10/5/2006

quote:
Originally posted by mander

My father was very proficient at drumming ideas into my young impressionable mind. One such belief was that is was the destiny of all clothes to become rags. "Never judge a person by their clothes. It's what's in their hearts, not what's on their backs that matters."

This idea lodged in my brain and has stayed there for decades. Since my recent move... I shock myself daily by looking at someone and thinking, "Does your mother know you left the house dressed like that?"

I have no idea where this attitude is suddenly coming from. Recently I listened to a group of young people expressing the same notion. I was shocked that such young people could be so narrow and opinionated. Am I just a really slow learner? Has fashion been important all this time and I've just been slow to notice? Or has fashion degraded itself to such a low standard that I finally care? I grew up in a city that prides itself on being "weird." My standards have always been skewed. Grateful Dead Hippies never fazed me. Why should I care now?


Your dad had wisdom.

My other half briefly worked for a car finance company. To say what this revealed to her was an eye-opener is an understatement.

If by 'clothes' we include all the everyday things people 'wear' for effect in our culture we should include cars and update your dad's maxim by saying that those clothes turn to rags or rust (or breakers yards).

The fact that so many folks are prone to make superficial assessment is why other folks will go heavily into debt to have what they can't afford simply to project an image. In reality that image is very rarely accurate even in regard to the one-dimensional message it is attempting to send. If we step back and consider in our consumer culture what is 'weird' it is the sheer extent of that indebted falseness all around us.

Anyone who places value and trust in what is false is only fooling themselves.

Edited by - m06 on 11/27/2020 00:14:03

Nov 27, 2020 - 4:46:41 AM

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

25364 posts since 8/3/2003

When I worked I had to dress up every day: nice dress, suit, hose, high heels. When I retired I said I'd never wear another dress or hose again...... and I can only remember a couple of times where I had to wear a dress and heels. I can go to a church where a pants suit is considered fine and many of the men show up in jeans and that's okay, too.

I see people in stores dressed to the nines and others so ragged you wonder if they are able to purchase groceries. That's their right, to dress as they please. I don't think I have the right to judge them.

I much prefer to dress in a T-shirt and jeans. I'm comfortable and if people don't like it..... that's their problem.

Nov 27, 2020 - 5:02:11 AM

Paul R

Canada

13671 posts since 1/28/2010

A couple of things Mom told us: 1) Always wear clean underwear because you never know when you may have an emergency and be taken to the hospital. 2) (This was back when Canada still had private medical service.) Never wear your best clothes to the doctor's office, because he might charge you more because you look more affluent.

Then there are the stories about famous rock stars visiting car showrooms and being shunned for their appearance, only to pay cash for a very expensive car. Ronnie Hawkins comes to mind. https://www.nicholasjennings.com/gordon-lightfoot-ronnie-hawkins-and-the-rolls-royce

Nov 27, 2020 - 6:06:32 AM

m06

England

9554 posts since 10/5/2006

The OP is an interesting question precisely because at a base level we all make instinctive judgements. It's how we monitor those judgements and whether and how we act on our judgement that makes the difference.

It also interests me how people (especially some Americans) will claim to uphold a sense of 'total' personal freedom i.e. however someone dresses is entirely 'that person's business'. Whereas in reality we are all social beings and functioning within a healthy society actually requires an element of convention and compromise. It is likely that although they champion the right to dress as one pleases, they highly modify their behaviour in relation to what they observe. That is the process of judgement in practice. From a sociological aspect I would be fascinated to be a fly on the wall and discover how those people who claim that how someone dresses is totally 'their own business' actually interact differently with people who turn up at Walmart dressed like them or who turn up at Walmart in 'unusual' attire.

The 'no judgement' claim is only valid if there is absolute zero difference in the way they actually relate to people dressed like them and people dressed very differently. And in truth absolute zero difference in that context is very unlikely*.wink

*- one only has to recall the previous Walmart photo threads here in off-topic for anecdotal evidence of that sociological fact.

Edited by - m06 on 11/27/2020 06:18:57

Nov 27, 2020 - 6:17:14 AM
Players Union Member

wizofos

USA

5791 posts since 8/19/2012

In Wisconsin it is not wise to judge someone by their clothes. If a farmer has to run into town for a tractor part he might still be wearing the overalls and boots he was wearing when he cleaned out the dairy barn or what he wore to feed the hogs. No time to take a bath and put on 'nice' clothes, he has to get back out in the fields and get that hay in before it rains. Oh, check out the implements in his barn yard, $500,000 combine, $150,000 tractor, etc...

Nov 27, 2020 - 6:23:22 AM
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m06

England

9554 posts since 10/5/2006

quote:
Originally posted by wizofos

In Wisconsin it is not wise to judge someone by their clothes. If a farmer has to run into town for a tractor part he might still be wearing the overalls and boots he was wearing when he cleaned out the dairy barn or what he wore to feed the hogs. No time to take a bath and put on 'nice' clothes, he has to get back out in the fields and get that hay in before it rains. Oh, check out the implements in his barn yard, $500,000 combine, $150,000 tractor, etc...


The farmer is well within social 'convention' i.e. wearing what we know to be recognisably normal attire for his or her employment. That scenario doesn't test the hypothesis I raised in my post above. Social convention in dress is not about wearing 'nice' clothes or dressing up to impress. Social convention is about familiarity, expectation, boundary and taboo. There is culture and within that are microcultures too. Each with their own highly attuned conventions, judgement and prejudice. Criteria can vary according to the social make-up of the immediate locale.

Dressing or speaking like a journalist in the vicinity of certain rallies is a classic recent example.  Very often it's not about freedom of the individual at all; sadly it's about the 'freedom' to be like us. The loudest proponents of 'liberty' are generally the most self-contradictory and inconsistent. Because of the narrowness of what they perceive liberty to be.

Edited by - m06 on 11/27/2020 06:38:53

Nov 27, 2020 - 7:16:56 AM

Owen

Canada

7491 posts since 6/5/2011
Online Now

....dress for the occasion..... be slow to judge [or at least let things simmer for a wee bit] .... there but for fortune..... if everybody thought the same, the world would be an awfully dull place [thanks, Mom] .....etc.

Nov 27, 2020 - 9:12:13 AM

Banjo Lefty

Canada

2098 posts since 6/19/2014

My mother insisted on two things: first, that I shine my shoes, and second, that I tuck in my shirt. I got around the shoe thing early on by wearing runners, but even today I feel uncomfortable with an untucked shirt.

Nov 28, 2020 - 3:59:12 PM
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56505 posts since 12/14/2005

Back in the sixties, my buddy Steve went to Students For A Democratic Society meetings with shoulder-length hair ( like the Hippies!) AND a white shirt and a tie (like the Young Republicans).
He said it was really FUN to see how the SDS crowd reacted to someone they could not pigeonhole at a glance as either Friend or Foe.

And when I was doing a required inspection of a major mall, as a Fire Prevention inspector,   one of the little shops sold nothing BUT razor-shredded and/or acid-stained denim clothes.

It amused me that those things were priced pretty dang HIGH, especially since the charity gift shops would not accept OLD clothes in that condition.

But, having witnessed some other foolishness in my life, I could imagine people whose fashion statement was:
"Look at ME! I'm SO [EXPLETIVE DELETED] RICH, that I can hire OTHER PEOPLE to wear out my clothing FOR me!!"

Edited by - mike gregory on 11/28/2020 16:01:45

Nov 28, 2020 - 4:30:32 PM
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bubbalouie

Canada

14632 posts since 9/27/2007
Online Now

I don't get/understand pre-distressed clothes or instruments. When I buy jeans I want to wear them out by myself!

They use bleach & sandpaper & put cuts in the material. Reminds me back when they were making fake antique furniture by hitting them with chains & rubbing dirt into them.

You can tell the difference of broke in & fake!

Nov 28, 2020 - 5:34:48 PM
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2417 posts since 2/10/2013

Wizofos - Lots of farmers like that in southern Illinois. An acquaintance who owned and farmed a lot of acreage was at a dealer looking at cars. The salesman ignored him. That got him in trouble. The farmer in bib overalls was in the showroom picking out his next car. and he always paid cash for his cars. That farmer sent his son to a top notch vocational school. When he graduated he got a job as an auto mechanic at a car dealership, but he also fixed his dad's farm equipment.

His simple house by the highway was not impressive. But his warehouse full of expensive equipment was. The unimpressive old famers were the most successful. They put their money into their farms - not fancy house, cruises. etc.. The daughter of a farmer near Holland made me aware of that information.

Nov 29, 2020 - 6:54:07 AM

3811 posts since 12/6/2009

I’ve been to weddings where people had dressed like slobs. My sons 8th grade graduation…there was only 2 or 3 of us who had suit/sport jackets and slacks…the rest had shorts jeans and 1 had on sweat pants. Anytime I went to a show I made sure I looked presentable….not for me but out of respect for the folks in the show……I don’t go to church but we have a Methodist church across the street a ways…..some of those weddings resembled hog washing time…….not much respect anymore I guess. (sorry for being an old guy)
I also can remember when BG bands started showing up with sad looking clothes…..I guess they want us to think they’re hardy mountain men or something…..only they never stopped to notice the poor of the poor try to dress neatly as they can……Hats and Ties so the song goes.

Edited by - overhere on 11/29/2020 06:56:23

Nov 29, 2020 - 7:14:33 AM
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bubbalouie

Canada

14632 posts since 9/27/2007
Online Now

In the early 70s when my brother & I were in our teens our mother said we could grow our hair as long as it was clean. Not all greasy & dirty.

I understand us working people get dirty but besides that it's best to be clean & presentable for all other situations.

Nov 29, 2020 - 7:22:11 AM
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DC5

USA

16054 posts since 6/30/2015
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by Banjo Lefty

My mother insisted on two things: first, that I shine my shoes, and second, that I tuck in my shirt. I got around the shoe thing early on by wearing runners, but even today I feel uncomfortable with an untucked shirt.


It's funny, I'm generally most comfortable in jeans and a T-shirt, but want the shirt tucked in.  When I was a software engineer this was the general uniform.  When I began teaching I wore slacks, button shirt and a tie.  It was not a requirement, but I felt it was important to give that image to the students.  When I first started working I couldn't wait to take off the "work clothes" when I got home, but after a couple of years I would leave the tie on for quite some time before changing.  I got so used to the tie that it didn't feel right when I wasn't wearing it. 

Nov 29, 2020 - 7:24:11 AM
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DC5

USA

16054 posts since 6/30/2015
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by overhere

I’ve been to weddings where people had dressed like slobs. My sons 8th grade graduation…there was only 2 or 3 of us who had suit/sport jackets and slacks…the rest had shorts jeans and 1 had on sweat pants. Anytime I went to a show I made sure I looked presentable….not for me but out of respect for the folks in the show……I don’t go to church but we have a Methodist church across the street a ways…..some of those weddings resembled hog washing time…….not much respect anymore I guess. (sorry for being an old guy)
I also can remember when BG bands started showing up with sad looking clothes…..I guess they want us to think they’re hardy mountain men or something…..only they never stopped to notice the poor of the poor try to dress neatly as they can……Hats and Ties so the song goes.


Wakes and funerals the same thing.  I always wear a tie, if not also a jacket, when attending either.  Even casual back yard weddings I wear a tie.  I would never think of attending a funeral or memorial service without wearing a jacket and tie. 

Nov 30, 2020 - 3:55:40 PM

mander

USA

4487 posts since 10/7/2007

quote:
Originally posted by Brian T

 I replace clothes when the threads begin to unravel.
 


The distress look is in. You could sell those for big bucks! :-)

Nov 30, 2020 - 4:13:40 PM
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Owen

Canada

7491 posts since 6/5/2011
Online Now

... some time back, Serena or Venus Williams opined: "If you dress like a slob, you'll act like a slob."  

[I'm guessing she was talking about those who weren't doing it out of $$ necessity.]

Nov 30, 2020 - 4:34:50 PM
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conic

England

847 posts since 2/15/2014

I would never judge normal people by what they wear however i think wearing a plain mask is stupid but i see more people now wearing designer masks, next will be what bubba mentioned to distress the mask "use bleach & sandpaper & put cuts in the material" hahaha

Nov 30, 2020 - 5:48:24 PM
Players Union Member

Brian T

Canada

17592 posts since 6/5/2008

My favorite 20-yr old Carhart coat might just outlive me.
If not, I will have a cremation funeral pyre in my back yard.
I will drink to the health and the memories of everything that coat has seen.

Dec 1, 2020 - 5:21:22 PM

mander

USA

4487 posts since 10/7/2007

quote:
Originally posted by Brian T

My favorite 20-yr old Carhart coat might just outlive me.
If not, I will have a cremation funeral pyre in my back yard.
I will drink to the health and the memories of everything that coat has seen.


I would laugh, but I know for a fact the man I married loves his ski jacket more than he loves me. Had more fun with it! :-)

Dec 1, 2020 - 5:40:56 PM
Players Union Member

Brian T

Canada

17592 posts since 6/5/2008

In the city, that coat probably looks to be all the rage for fashion.
To me, it's my "winter skin." I have better coats for 20 below and colder.

It's like wearing bib-front camo and that coat into a city grocery store.
They're probably thinking "poor hunter" has to buy his dinner.
You leave a few goose feathers on the check out belt.

Dec 2, 2020 - 3:55:30 PM

3811 posts since 12/6/2009

quote:
Originally posted by Brian T

My favorite 20-yr old Carhart coat might just outlive me.
If not, I will have a cremation funeral pyre in my back yard.
I will drink to the health and the memories of everything that coat has seen.


I think you’re gonna have to take that carhart with you …..my Carhart vest is 60 years old and has only one little smidgen of a tear…..probably from a nail sticking out somewhere……Just in case anyone’s interested Carhart is making vests again.

Dec 2, 2020 - 5:16:02 PM
Players Union Member

Brian T

Canada

17592 posts since 6/5/2008

Yeah, I could be cremated in it. They can bury the zippers, for all I will care.

Vests, huh? I must look into that.

Some Carhartt stuff, like the "Canyon" coat, cannot be shipped into Canada.
I'll have a secret agent buy me one for my birthday. So far, I'm well off as it is.

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