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Nov 25, 2020 - 7:10:53 AM
5434 posts since 9/16/2004

... those who impregnate the females of the vanquished.

Is this true throughout the entire animal kingdom? As descendants of the great apes, are we any different?

Nov 25, 2020 - 7:43:40 AM
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Owen

Canada

7424 posts since 6/5/2011

Me: 

        George Clooney - The Enough Project

Ape: 

  Great apes and COVID-19: Experts raise the alarm for endangered species |  Emory University | Atlanta, GA

I'm glad my wife saw a difference.   cheeky

Edited by - Owen on 11/25/2020 07:45:01

Nov 25, 2020 - 8:14:55 AM

1472 posts since 2/4/2013

quote:
Originally posted by Frisco Fred


Is this true throughout the entire animal kingdom? As descendants of the great apes, are we any different?


No it's not true throughout the entire animal kingdom including great apes.

Nov 25, 2020 - 9:37:19 AM

5434 posts since 9/16/2004

quote:
Originally posted by GrahamHawker
quote:
Originally posted by Frisco Fred


Is this true throughout the entire animal kingdom? As descendants of the great apes, are we any different?


No it's not true throughout the entire animal kingdom including great apes.


What are the exceptions?   Your answer may bring hope to the notion that love is a stronger force than pure / unpure dominance.  

Nov 25, 2020 - 9:45:32 AM

318 posts since 7/22/2016

Yes we are different. One such example is we have a higher degree of moral agency. We have the capacity to rationalize that our morals are separate from the behaviors of other animals in wild natural environments. Just because some animals rip each other apart with their teeth and rape each other does not make it a permissible act for humans to do the same in the context of most humans cultures.

What does it matter if there are exceptions? What are you interested in talking about? Are you looking for confirmation that some animals are less ruthless by some human cultural perception of morality? Are you looking for an excuse to behave less morally in a given cultural context? Are you looking for an explanation of morality?

Edited by - Bum Ditty Brendan on 11/25/2020 09:46:12

Nov 25, 2020 - 10:01:15 AM

5434 posts since 9/16/2004

quote:
Originally posted by Bum Ditty Brendan

Yes we are different. One such example is we have a higher degree of moral agency. We have the capacity to rationalize that our morals are separate from the behaviors of other animals in wild natural environments. Just because some animals rip each other apart with their teeth and rape each other does not make it a permissible act for humans to do the same in the context of most humans cultures.

What does it matter if there are exceptions? What are you interested in talking about? Are you looking for confirmation that some animals are less ruthless by some human cultural perception of morality? Are you looking for an excuse to behave less morally in a given cultural context? Are you looking for an explanation of morality?


Not really looking for anything.   However, in terms of human discourse and war, raping the women of the vanquished is an historical fact.  It seems as though most preditors do the same.   

Nov 25, 2020 - 10:15:16 AM

56460 posts since 12/14/2005

In one of his "Rabbi" mystery novels, Harry Kemelman explains to his NON-Jewish readers that the tradition holds that if one has a Jewish mother, one is a Jew. And he explains that this is because, back then, back there, so many conquering armies came through, raping and pillaging and slaughtering and, did I mention raping?,  that one could be certain who the MOTHER was, but could not be certain who the father might be.

So it goes back to before Year Zero of the common calendar, at the very latest.

Nov 25, 2020 - 10:16:48 AM

1472 posts since 2/4/2013

quote:
Originally posted by Frisco Fred

What are the exceptions? 


It's most animal species. Probably nearly all. For instance many birds pair for life.

Nov 26, 2020 - 2:26:44 AM

3138 posts since 4/29/2012

quote:
Originally posted by GrahamHawker
quote:
Originally posted by Frisco Fred

What are the exceptions? 


It's most animal species. Probably nearly all. For instance many birds pair for life.


In most times and cultures and in most cases the 'caveman drags woman from neighbouring tribe off by her hair' archetype has been the exception rather than the rule.  Of course if an invader invades they will take everything, crops, gold, other valuables, women. But this isn't the norm.

Among other animals it varies greatly. In many species the male has to demonstrate the fitness of his genes before the female deigns to mate with him. Obvious examples are peacocks who have to grow a luxuriant tail to have any chance of getting to first base and birds of paradise, who not only need to grow expensive feathers but also dance to attract a mate. You were doing something similar down the disco back in the day with your expensive threads, aftershave and cool moves. 

And in other species. Many deer, sea elephants etc. the male just gets first dibs on all available females by fighting off all competing males.

So what you see as the human archetype is not the norm even for humans, and mostly not applicable to other species.

Nov 26, 2020 - 5:47:21 AM
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8thpol

USA

5475 posts since 3/3/2005

Are we any different you ask? Why yes we are the Banjo players. Overall the opportunity to impregnate the females of the vanquished or otherwise is a rarity I would guess.

Nov 26, 2020 - 6:08 AM
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m06

England

9531 posts since 10/5/2006

quote:
Originally posted by 8thpol

Are we any different you ask? Why yes we are the Banjo players. Overall the opportunity to impregnate the females of the vanquished or otherwise is a rarity I would guess.


I've sometimes wondered the sort've turn a date would take when it's casually dropped into the conversation that we play banjo. I guess it could go one of two ways:  a wide-eyed look that indicates a bloodline receding faster than a ground-to-air missile, or a resigned look that says 'Well at least there'll never be any grass on the other side of his fence'.

I'm just thankful my long ago dating days were pre-banjo ownership. wink

Edited by - m06 on 11/26/2020 06:12:58

Nov 26, 2020 - 6:24:09 AM
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Players Union Member

DC5

USA

15879 posts since 6/30/2015

quote:
Originally posted by 8thpol

Are we any different you ask? Why yes we are the Banjo players. Overall the opportunity to impregnate the females of the vanquished or otherwise is a rarity I would guess.


Could be worse, we could be gamers.

Nov 27, 2020 - 6:53:26 AM

figmo59

USA

32329 posts since 3/5/2008

In the movie Rob Roy...
The main carictors wife was raped...

When She explained that she may be pregnant...
His answer was...
If you are .n..if it is a boy...then.
Name Him.. Robert.......


I personally always liked that line of the movie...

Nov 27, 2020 - 7:28:09 AM

2397 posts since 2/10/2013

I feel that many comments about "animals" only reflect the ignorance of the person writing or uttering that comment. Time and observance of animal behavior sometime corrects false impressions we humans have. As I become more acquainted with animal behavior, I have had misconceptions corrected.

Like many other things, we develop false impressions because we are initially provided with misinformation.

Nov 28, 2020 - 8:14:39 AM
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5434 posts since 9/16/2004

quote:
Originally posted by 8thpol

Are we any different you ask? Why yes we are the Banjo players. Overall the opportunity to impregnate the females of the vanquished or otherwise is a rarity I would guess.

 

.... does this mean no groupies?

Nov 28, 2020 - 4:23:27 PM

Paul R

Canada

13640 posts since 1/28/2010

quote:
Originally posted by Owen

Me: 

        George Clooney - The Enough Project

Ape: 

  Great apes and COVID-19: Experts raise the alarm for endangered species |  Emory University | Atlanta, GA

I'm glad my wife saw a difference.   cheeky


Are you sure you didn't get the captions mixed up?

Nov 28, 2020 - 6:01:49 PM

Owen

Canada

7424 posts since 6/5/2011

Nope.... but just to be sure, I administered a "test" to my wife.... she was able to identify the top pic as me, 3 times out of 3.   cheeky

Nov 28, 2020 - 6:05:33 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

54709 posts since 10/5/2013

quote:
Originally posted by m06
quote:
Originally posted by 8thpol

Are we any different you ask? Why yes we are the Banjo players. Overall the opportunity to impregnate the females of the vanquished or otherwise is a rarity I would guess.


I've sometimes wondered the sort've turn a date would take when it's casually dropped into the conversation that we play banjo. I guess it could go one of two ways:  a wide-eyed look that indicates a bloodline receding faster than a ground-to-air missile, or a resigned look that says 'Well at least there'll never be any grass on the other side of his fence'.

I'm just thankful my long ago dating days were pre-banjo ownership. wink

 


Not so here,,, the woman I married liked me cuz her Dad played banjo too. (it went downhill from there....)

Nov 28, 2020 - 11:55:46 PM
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m06

England

9531 posts since 10/5/2006

quote:
Originally posted by Frisco Fred
quote:
Originally posted by 8thpol

Are we any different you ask? Why yes we are the Banjo players. Overall the opportunity to impregnate the females of the vanquished or otherwise is a rarity I would guess.

 

.... does this mean no groupies?


Before lockdown me and my friends played every month at the local farmers market. Summer or winter we'd set up under an easy-up/gazebo. We like to decorate that with a few visual clues to the origin of the music we are playing - a Virginia state flag, and behind us as a back-drop a large rustic patterned quilt.

From time to time we get excited women hastening their steps in our direction sometimes in groups of 2 or 3...

...and every single time they step between/over us as if we're not there and start examining the stitching on that quilt. laugh

Edited by - m06 on 11/28/2020 23:57:15

Dec 3, 2020 - 10:22:01 AM
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896 posts since 3/7/2006

One small difference when vanquishing between man and ape. Apes don't get accused, arrested, and go to trial when those vanquished forgot they gave permission the night before.

Dec 4, 2020 - 5:26:26 AM

6147 posts since 9/5/2006

quote:
Originally posted by 8thpol

Are we any different you ask? Why yes we are the Banjo players. Overall the opportunity to impregnate the females of the vanquished or otherwise is a rarity I would guess.


thanks steve,, i laughed out loud at that one,,,,,   there are many things we as humans do i our minds that would be immoral in advanced society as we use the term but our ability to reason and knowing the penalty and moral understanding ,, we do not act on impulse (in most cases).  in the animal society there are few checks and balances that determine the outcome.

Edited by - 1935tb-11 on 12/04/2020 05:28:00

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