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Nov 24, 2020 - 1:39:49 PM
1567 posts since 4/13/2017

I have a rim that I buggered up a little bit. It's perfectly fine from the top of the flange cut to the top, but the whole bottom half is junk.

How can I cut this bottom part off? I do not own a lathe, nor know a guy nearby with one.

I'd like to salvage the top half of this rim.

Nov 24, 2020 - 2:09:10 PM
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2 posts since 9/18/2019

I'm not 100% sure about which axis you are trying to cut- but if it's a 3 inch deep pot that you're trying to trim down to like 1-1/2" or something, you can do it with a table saw.
Remove all the hardware.
Set the stop to the appropriate depth of cut.
Raise up the blade to a good height.
Make several cuts, rotating the banjo between passes.

Good luck!

Nov 24, 2020 - 2:15:19 PM

7 posts since 11/5/2020

I cut down drums in the way that LeftyKash just described.

Nov 24, 2020 - 2:18:32 PM

1567 posts since 4/13/2017

Okey dokey. Thanks!

Nov 24, 2020 - 2:32:16 PM

7878 posts since 1/7/2005

If you don't have a table saw, you can cut down the height of the rim with many passes on a benchtop planer.

If you don't have a planer but do have a drill press, you can remove the material with a Saf-T-Planer.

Lacking a drill press, you can shave it down with a hand plane.

I've cut a few rims down using the table saw method, but it makes me nervous every time I do it. Seems like a good chance for kickback.

Nov 24, 2020 - 2:39:11 PM
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20 posts since 3/1/2012

Handsaw and block plane. If you don’t have skill with hand tools, you should.

Nov 24, 2020 - 3:01:52 PM

1567 posts since 4/13/2017

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Sleeper

Handsaw and block plane. If you don’t have skill with hand tools, you should.


Hmmm. I actually sort of like that idea. I have used hand saws as little as possible because it was always so much easier to use a power tool. But I feel like the handsaw would actually be very appropriate, controllable, and safe for this job. I believe I'll go that route, allowing a bit extra room in case my saw accidentally bevels. I can then use my sanding board to true it up.

Nov 24, 2020 - 6:50:30 PM
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56460 posts since 12/14/2005

In an interview with a guy who makes absolutely accurate reproductions of early American banjos, he said that he doesn't use power tools, since he learned that power tools just allowed him to make mistakes faster.
So, congrats on the handsaw decision.

Nov 24, 2020 - 7:13:51 PM
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2244 posts since 2/7/2008

As a guy who is down to 9.5 fingers due to a table saw accident, the idea of cutting a rim on a table saw really scares me.

Nov 25, 2020 - 6:52:09 AM
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135 posts since 7/14/2017
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I've made ukulele cases and thus had to cut them open once built, which is a very similar operation.

I use a Japanese pull saw - I find it easier to keep that on the line when most of the saw is hidden inside, and you can vary the angle more than with a back saw. I wouldn't use a panel saw (very easy to gouge the piece with the far end).

Nov 25, 2020 - 6:53:23 AM

135 posts since 7/14/2017
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Forgot to add that I clean up with a fairly long bench plane, not a block plane, because that can span a fair proportion of the rim and thus helps keep all flat.

Nov 25, 2020 - 8:25:15 AM
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RB3

USA

885 posts since 4/12/2004

If it were me, I'd try to get a small, inexpensive, circular, slitting saw blade that's 2.5-3.0" in diameter with a thickness of 1/32-1/16" and with a mounting hole diameter of 1/4-3/8". Then, I'd get a short mandrel that would allow me to mount the saw blade on the end of the mandrel. I would then mount that mandrel/saw blade assembly in my drill press chuck. I'd clamp two pieces of wood to the drill press table to serve as locator fences to control the location of the rim and control the depth of cut. Then, I would plunge the rim into the saw blade until the rim contacted both fences so that the depth of cut is 1/8-1/4" deep. Holding the rim against the two fences and keeping it pressed against the table, I would rotate it by hand until I had made a cut completely around the outside of the rim. I would re-locate the locator fences to achieve a deeper cut and repeat the process. I'd continue repeating that process until the blade broke through to make the final cut.

Nov 25, 2020 - 9:16:45 AM

56460 posts since 12/14/2005

I concur with Mr. B3, above.
A couple pieces of wood, clamped to the drill table, in a V, so the rim can only be in so far,

and no farther, and the rim being flat on the table, is a LOT more control than standing the [EXPLETIVE DELETED] thing on edge on a table saw, and hoping for the best.

Nov 25, 2020 - 9:51:52 AM
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jamesinkster

Canada

244 posts since 5/25/2010

I've had to do this several times, as I bend rims and after laminating I need to clean up the edges.

My goto method is to mark a line and cut it with a handsaw, and then true it up by spinning the rim on a sheet of marble (which is covered in sandpaper).

Even better -- I build up a riser to the desired height, clamp a saw blade on top, and then spin the rim against the blade. It cuts down on error...

Nov 25, 2020 - 10:08:44 AM

2986 posts since 2/18/2009

I've done this on a table saw several times but it always makes me nervous. It is a quite dangerous maneuver in my opinion, though many folks (of whom I am lucky enough to be one) have done it without harm. If you know someone with a drum sander you could take it to them after cutting it, to get the last 1/4" off. The drum sander makes a quick job of flattening things.

Nov 25, 2020 - 10:09:02 AM
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56460 posts since 12/14/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Quickstep192

As a guy who is down to 9.5 fingers due to a table saw accident, the idea of cutting a rim on a table saw really scares me.


now let's grab our banjos and SING!

==========================

Nine-Finger!

He's the man, the man with a careful touch.

Because ONCE was too much!

There's a GONE finger,

Beckons you to take care with the saw.

And the memory's raw!

Metal blades that can spin at high speed

Can trim you quick, and you're gonna bleed!

It's a golden chance, he's warning you, Mister!

The finger's gone, once the blades have kissed her!

Buddy boy, beware blades of steel,

For the pain they can cause is too real!

It's just too real!

========================

 

===========================

Nov 25, 2020 - 10:31:03 AM
Players Union Member

Helix

USA

13266 posts since 8/30/2006
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I first started building when I was 62
I retired early

I started on all the hand processes
I “increased my need” and block planes, hand saws, Buck saws, brace and bits, mallets, chisels, squares and banjos all arrived seemingly at once
Power tools arrived by the same process

If one of you gets hit by kickback, I would hurt with empathy, so don’t

It’s time to start another thread  stay tuned

Edited by - Helix on 11/25/2020 10:31:27

Nov 25, 2020 - 10:33:23 AM

56460 posts since 12/14/2005

"Stay tuned"?????

In what fantasy world do YOU live, where a banjo will STAY tuned?

Nov 25, 2020 - 12:42:16 PM

2986 posts since 2/18/2009

While I was riding back from the post office on my bicycle just now I was thinking about how to cut a rim, and I got wondering about the blade in a drill press mandrel method. It seems to me that the saw blade will be trying to grab the rim and spin it around, and if it does that it would take the operator's hands right into the blade, since the round rim has nothing to stop it from turning. I may be wrong about this, but it seems like it might be at least as dangerous as a table saw.

Nov 25, 2020 - 1:51:29 PM

67 posts since 5/27/2019

quote:
Originally posted by Zachary Hoyt

While I was riding back from the post office on my bicycle just now I was thinking about how to cut a rim, and I got wondering about the blade in a drill press mandrel method. It seems to me that the saw blade will be trying to grab the rim and spin it around, and if it does that it would take the operator's hands right into the blade, since the round rim has nothing to stop it from turning. I may be wrong about this, but it seems like it might be at least as dangerous as a table saw.


I haven't done this before, but I'm planning to try it soon with a radial arm saw with the blade locked in horizontal position.  It will be adjusted so that the blade is not projecting much past the saw fence, and possibly I'll clamp another board down to the table 90 degrees to the fence to further constrain the drum as I turn it.  This isn't terribly different from the blade in a mandrel in a drill press, which I have not tried.  My past experience with cutting things on the RAS with a horizontal blade has been that there hasn't been drama.  One advantage of this over a table saw when cutting a drum or rim is (assuming the end of it is true) that the end is down against a flat surface so that it can't rock.  That means the kerf stays parallel to the cut, and the chances of the thing kicking back or grabbing probably aren't particularly high.  I think this would be harder and more dangerous to do on a table saw.

Edited by - Uke-alot on 11/25/2020 13:52:44

Nov 25, 2020 - 2:46:08 PM

Owen

Canada

7424 posts since 6/5/2011

quote:
Originally posted by Zachary Hoyt

I've done this on a table saw several times but it always makes me nervous. It is a quite dangerous maneuver in my opinion, though many folks (of whom I am lucky enough to be one) have done it without harm.

I've not tried this; I've never cut a banjo rim; I'm not promoting the idea..... just thinking out loud [....although I still have all my fingers...... and toes  wink ]. 

Could a sturdy "box" [I'm thinking old-style wooden soft-drink box or ??], or make a tall 90 degree fence  and clamp it securely in place of the saw's own fence??  Would using the "V boards"  to allow "rotating" it in place be worse?... or better than making "passes"??   Would operating the saw from the backside make things better? .. or worse?

Again, I'm not advocating anything. ..... other than "Be careful!!" 

Edited by - Owen on 11/25/2020 14:54:04

Nov 25, 2020 - 6:35:48 PM
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Bart Veerman

Canada

4812 posts since 1/5/2005

The safest and, probably the easiest, way is to make a new rim. It's best to keep oops parts away from customers anyways.

Nov 25, 2020 - 11:25:30 PM
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rcc56

USA

3268 posts since 2/20/2016

If you have access to a drill press, you can lay the rim flat on the press's table, set your depth gauge for the desired depth, and drill a series of nice wide holes down into the rim, as close together as possible.  Then, clamp the rim to your work bench and knock out the wood between the holes you drilled with a chisel and maybe a gouge. A heck of a lot safer than $%^& around with trying to do this with a table saw, radial saw, or saw in a drill chuck. Clean up and true up the surface with the tool of your choice. Never underestimate the value of a good sanding block.

When I worked low-budget construction in the old days, we went on the job with just a hammer and apron, skill saw, combination square, tape measure, chalk line, chisel, a good hand saw, and a wonder bar or cat's paw. The boss kept a drill and a big framing square in the truck in case we needed it. No nail guns, screw guns, table saws, radial saws, compressors, or any of that stuff. We would make lap joints by making a bunch of parallel cuts with the saw, then knock out the waste wood between the cuts with a hammer and chisel.

Don't gamble with unsafe practices with saws of any kind. One bad moment can change your life forever.

I once had a disagreement with a piece of hydraulic equipment.  I was lucky, I kept the finger, but I couldn't pick up a guitar for 6 months, and couldn't do a bar chord for a lot longer than that.  32 years later, the finger is still a bit numb and sluggish.  But fortunately, it works well enough for me to have been able to make a living.

Edited by - rcc56 on 11/25/2020 23:37:21

Nov 26, 2020 - 5:23:23 AM

1567 posts since 4/13/2017

quote:
Originally posted by Bart Veerman

The safest and, probably the easiest, way is to make a new rim. It's best to keep oops parts away from customers anyways.


I was planning on using it as a test subject for my own banjo. If the tests went well, then Id know that this new design was a good one.

Nov 26, 2020 - 6:50:24 AM

4556 posts since 11/20/2004

How about cutting a board the width that you want the rim height to be. Use it to make a square box to fit the rim. Drop the rim in, lay your handsaw on its side and cut off what is sticking up. Sounds safe to me????

Nov 26, 2020 - 6:55:41 AM

Owen

Canada

7424 posts since 6/5/2011

 
Originally posted by Lemon Banjos
<snip>  I was planning on using it as a test subject for my own banjo. If the tests went well, then Id know that this new design was a good one.

I've got two strikes against me... I've never made a banjo rim, and given ^^ comment, I likely don't understand the problem.   

Is the part that you'd be using again so superior/valuable that it warrants the additional work?  Would the "new design" have less [top-to-bottom] depth?  Would you be adding a new part onto the salvaged part to bring it to "standard" depth? ...or making rims in two parts and gluing them together as a "routine" procedure?    Help this ol' pea brain out. wink

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