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Oct 31, 2020 - 1:20:46 PM
9 posts since 10/31/2020

Although I am slightly more than a beginner, my church worship team asked me to play the banjo part of the song below.
I think I have the banjo roll patter for the fist part (4-2-3-2)? but it changes up later in the song. If someone could take a listen and give me some advice on the couple of roll patters used, I would be very grateful.
Blessings for a great holiday season to you all.
Don, Hope Idaho
The song is "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen (Tidings) by Hillsong
If I did things correctly, it should be attached.


Oct 31, 2020 - 2:02 PM

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

25127 posts since 8/3/2003

There are several tabs in the tab archives for this song. I found this pdf file that you can download and print. There are several others with various tab softwares that you might want to look at.

You may get a warning about going to Hangoutstorage, but it's a glitch in the system and the storage file is okay. Go here: hangoutstorage.com/banjohangou...92011.pdf

Here's a clawhammer style, beginner format that you might want to look at.  https://www.banjohangout.org/tab/browse.asp?m=detail&v=14492

And, what you've posted sounds okay if you just want to do backup while a person and/or the choir is singing. 

Edited by - Texasbanjo on 10/31/2020 14:06:01

Oct 31, 2020 - 2:02:36 PM

Alex Z

USA

3991 posts since 12/7/2006

Sounds great.  You're doing exactly what you ought to do -- make the song, in the arrangement here, sound better, and if there weren't a banjo, would sound like something is missing.

Simple banjo pattern, yet suits the song.  And perfect timing.  The additional note in the pattern late in the song fits in with the 6/8 timing, and the rhythm doesn't change.  A really fine job.

Since you asked smiley there aren't a lot of nitcieable chord changes in this arrangement, so your E minor pattern works well all the way through except for one chord:

  The ending lines

         "Oh tidings of comfort and joy, comfort and JOY,

          Oh tidings of comfort and joy.  "

On the JOY in capitals -- try a D major, see if you like the blend.  Back to E minor on the following "tidings."

The arrangement will sound great in the church.  Enjoy the music.

Edited by - Alex Z on 10/31/2020 14:04:02

Oct 31, 2020 - 2:08:16 PM

9 posts since 10/31/2020

Thank you very much. I appreciate the feed back.
Originally posted by Texasbanjo

There are several tabs in the tab archives for this song. I found this pdf file that you can download and print. There are several others with various tab softwares that you might want to look at.

You may get a warning about going to Hangoutstorage, but it's a glitch in the system and the storage file is okay. Go here: hangoutstorage.com/banjohangou...92011.pdf

Here's a clawhammer style, beginner format that you might want to look at.  https://www.banjohangout.org/tab/browse.asp?m=detail&v=14492

And, what you've posted sounds okay if you just want to do backup while a person and/or the choir is singing. 


Oct 31, 2020 - 2:11 PM

9 posts since 10/31/2020

Thank you Alex.  I appreciate knowing I am on the right track.  Just stressful as I have never played with a band before.
Originally posted by Alex Z

Sounds great.  You're doing exactly what you ought to do -- make the song, in the arrangement here, sound better, and if there weren't a banjo, would sound like something is missing.

Simple banjo pattern, yet suits the song.  And perfect timing.  The additional note in the pattern late in the song fits in with the 6/8 timing, and the rhythm doesn't change.  A really fine job.

Since you asked smiley there aren't a lot of nitcieable chord changes in this arrangement, so your E minor pattern works well all the way through except for one chord:

  The ending lines

         "Oh tidings of comfort and joy, comfort and JOY,

          Oh tidings of comfort and joy.  "

On the JOY in capitals -- try a D major, see if you like the blend.  Back to E minor on the following "tidings."

The arrangement will sound great in the church.  Enjoy the music.

 


Oct 31, 2020 - 2:15:51 PM

chuckv97

Canada

53645 posts since 10/5/2013
Online Now

At 1:33 he starts playing triplets,, if you know how to do those go ahead, otherwise you can stick to the alternating thumb pattern.
I also notice he doesn’t play full chords, just partials , maybe just one note of the chord letting the others act as a drone effect.

Oct 31, 2020 - 3:06:54 PM

9 posts since 10/31/2020

I'll see if I can do the triplets.... thank you.
Originally posted by chuckv97

At 1:33 he starts playing triplets,, if you know how to do those go ahead, otherwise you can stick to the alternating thumb pattern.
I also notice he doesn’t play full chords, just partials , maybe just one note of the chord letting the others act as a drone effect.


Oct 31, 2020 - 3:14:16 PM

Alex Z

USA

3991 posts since 12/7/2006

"He"?  I thought that was Old Mac himself! smiley

Anyway, you do that E minor thing all the way through, it will sound great and you'll get a lot of compliments.  Don't need to be fancy to be a strong and essential part of a group sound.

Oct 31, 2020 - 3:49:18 PM

2285 posts since 5/2/2012

Here are the chords Hillsong  Just Em D C and G.  You could play this up the neck with 2-finger partial chords, as Chas suggests, like partial C,  D7, and Em, and you'd stay on the first 2 frets.  If you want to add some variety, partial chords (strings 1,2,3 and 5) up the neck at frets 7-12 with some (forward) rolling backup, but that gets away from the original.  You could play your picking pattern  straight or with some "bounce" (which is what I hear).   And, Like Chas said, you hear the triplets towards the beginning and then later on in the song, which gives you some rhythmic variety, and really "drives" the song during those parts.   

Eli Gilbert just did some videos on rolling back up, you can visit his site and if you want to print out the tabs it's inexpensive to be a patron at the lowest level.   

Oct 31, 2020 - 4:06:07 PM

9 posts since 10/31/2020

Well I'm a "McDonald" and I am definitely "old".  Great advice, thanks.
Originally posted by Alex Z

"He"?  I thought that was Old Mac himself! smiley

Anyway, you do that E minor thing all the way through, it will sound great and you'll get a lot of compliments.  Don't need to be fancy to be a strong and essential part of a group sound.


Oct 31, 2020 - 4:29:18 PM

9 posts since 10/31/2020

Thanks for your great recommendations as well as the chords. Song Surgeon did not detect the "D".  I just subscribed to Eli Gilbert and will study his lessons.  Good news is I'm retired and have time to try to nail this before December! All much appreciated. 
Originally posted by thisoldman

Here are the chords Hillsong  Just Em D C and G.  You could play this up the neck with 2-finger partial chords, as Chas suggests, like partial C,  D7, and Em, and you'd stay on the first 2 frets.  If you want to add some variety, partial chords (strings 1,2,3 and 5) up the neck at frets 7-12 with some (forward) rolling backup, but that gets away from the original.  You could play your picking pattern  straight or with some "bounce" (which is what I hear).   And, Like Chas said, you hear the triplets towards the beginning and then later on in the song, which gives you some rhythmic variety, and really "drives" the song during those parts.   

Eli Gilbert just did some videos on rolling back up, you can visit his site and if you want to print out the tabs it's inexpensive to be a patron at the lowest level.   


Oct 31, 2020 - 5:31:01 PM

Alex Z

USA

3991 posts since 12/7/2006

Band accompaniment guideline #1:   Play the same rhythm as the rest of the arrangement.  The arrangement here is in 6/8 -- but it is taken "in two", meaning the 1-2 is on the first and 4th note of the 6/8 rhythm.  Easy to hear -- but it is not 2/4 bluegrass rhythm.

Band accompaniment guideline # 2:  Play the same chords as the arrangement, not some other arrangement.

Band accompaniment guideline #3:  In the context of a simple, elegant melody, play simply and elegantly.  Forget about Scruggs licks and "rolls" in this context -- besides, they won't fit the rhythm.

Hope this helps.  Don't need to do a lot here, don't need a lot of technique.  Yet whatever is done, has to fit in right. 

Oct 31, 2020 - 5:52:58 PM

9 posts since 10/31/2020

Thank you Alex.  I understand what you are telling me except for #1.  In the beginning of the song I tend to hear 4 notes ( a roll pattern like 4-2-3-2), but I think what you are saying is that it is actually in triplets? Thanks for your patience with my slow learning brain!  
Originally posted by Alex Z

Band accompaniment guideline #1:   Play the same rhythm as the rest of the arrangement.  The arrangement here is in 6/8 -- but it is taken "in two", meaning the 1-2 is on the first and 4th note of the 6/8 rhythm.  Easy to hear -- but it is not 2/4 bluegrass rhythm.

Band accompaniment guideline # 2:  Play the same chords as the arrangement, not some other arrangement.

Band accompaniment guideline #3:  In the context of a simple, elegant melody, play simply and elegantly.  Forget about Scruggs licks and "rolls" in this context -- besides, they won't fit the rhythm.

Hope this helps.  Don't need to do a lot here, don't need a lot of technique.  Yet whatever is done, has to fit in right. 


Oct 31, 2020 - 5:57:36 PM

56047 posts since 12/14/2005

Not trying to hijack the thread away from the song you're working on THIS year.
Just offering a 3-chord original for NEXT year.
A minor, D minor, E7

Seeger style, or Bluegrass rolls.


Oct 31, 2020 - 6:15:44 PM

9 posts since 10/31/2020

Very nice.  Thanks for sharing.  I'm striving to play the banjo as your performed, maybe y next year....
Originally posted by mike gregory

Not trying to hijack the thread away from the song you're working on THIS year.
Just offering a 3-chord original for NEXT year.
A minor, D minor, E7

Seeger style, or Bluegrass rolls.


Oct 31, 2020 - 6:55:47 PM

Alex Z

USA

3991 posts since 12/7/2006

"In the beginning of the song I tend to hear 4 notes ( a roll pattern like 4-2-3-2), but I think what you are saying is that it is actually in triplets?

Yes, we hear four notes, but they are four notes out of 6 evenly-spaced counts.  So while the counts are evenly spaced, the notes played are not.

The pattern is actually (by string) 4-3-2-3.

****

[Proceed of your own accord in this middle part.  Don't need to know the following to figure out what to play.  Only to understand better what not to play.

   Now, how are these placed in time?  To avoid confusion, let's call the strings IV, III, II, III, and the counts 1,2,3,4,5,6.  Think of counting 1-2-3-4-5-6 with accents on 1 and 4.  That's 6/8 time, like a jig.

  The IV string is played on count 1,

  The III string is played on count 3.

  The II string is played on count 4

  The III string is played on count 6.

So if we were counting, we would count evenly, but play the notes on counts 1, 3, 4, 6.  This is not "bounce" but rather two true triplets but with a silent note on counts 2 and 5.

Takes a lot to explain, yet if we were sitting down across from each other, you would hear it immediately, same as we can hear the recording, and see how to count along with it.]

****

My point in all of this is not some technical musical rhythm, but rather to explain why standard bluegrass and  Scruggs licks are either (a) not going to fit, or (b) if they are forced to fit they will sound out of place in this song.  Your ears will tell you if you are playing like the recording, and that's good enough.  (I happen to think the recording illustrates a good back-up for this arrangement.)  That's why I would not approach this song in terms of bringing bluegrass back-up and licks to the song, but rather have the song tell me what sounds good to play.

Hope this helps.  Strings 4 3 2 3, in the rhythm that you hear.  All on E minor, one D maj toward the end, will do the job.   Could do more chords, but we don't hear the banjo on the recording playing more chords.

You'll get there.

Edited by - Alex Z on 10/31/2020 18:57:49

Oct 31, 2020 - 7:19:26 PM

9 posts since 10/31/2020

Ahh.. This is absolutely priceless for me.  I'll dive into it tomorrow after church and not stop til I get it.  Thank you very much.
Originally posted by Alex Z

"In the beginning of the song I tend to hear 4 notes ( a roll pattern like 4-2-3-2), but I think what you are saying is that it is actually in triplets?

Yes, we hear four notes, but they are four notes out of 6 evenly-spaced counts.  So while the counts are evenly spaced, the notes played are not.

The pattern is actually (by string) 4-3-2-3.

****

[Proceed of your own accord in this middle part.  Don't need to know the following to figure out what to play.  Only to understand better what not to play.

   Now, how are these placed in time?  To avoid confusion, let's call the strings IV, III, II, III, and the counts 1,2,3,4,5,6.  Think of counting 1-2-3-4-5-6 with accents on 1 and 4.  That's 6/8 time, like a jig.

  The IV string is played on count 1,

  The III string is played on count 3.

  The II string is played on count 4

  The III string is played on count 6.

So if we were counting, we would count evenly, but play the notes on counts 1, 3, 4, 6.  This is not "bounce" but rather two true triplets but with a silent note on counts 2 and 5.

Takes a lot to explain, yet if we were sitting down across from each other, you would hear it immediately, same as we can hear the recording, and see how to count along with it.]

****

My point in all of this is not some technical musical rhythm, but rather to explain why standard bluegrass and  Scruggs licks are either (a) not going to fit, or (b) if they are forced to fit they will sound out of place in this song.  Your ears will tell you if you are playing like the recording, and that's good enough.  (I happen to think the recording illustrates a good back-up for this arrangement.)  That's why I would not approach this song in terms of bringing bluegrass back-up and licks to the song, but rather have the song tell me what sounds good to play.

Hope this helps.  Strings 4 3 2 3, in the rhythm that you hear.  All on E minor, one D maj toward the end, will do the job.   Could do more chords, but we don't hear the banjo on the recording playing more chords.

You'll get there.

 

 


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