Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

421
Banjo Lovers Online


 New Topic  Topic Locked

Oct 31, 2020 - 5:17:50 AM
likes this
31940 posts since 3/5/2008

Do you?

Oct 31, 2020 - 5:42:05 AM
likes this

1356 posts since 2/4/2013

Yes I do. However it's a two way street.

Oct 31, 2020 - 6:04:22 AM
Players Union Member

pickn5

USA

1523 posts since 8/8/2012

Yes, a privilege and civic duty.

Oct 31, 2020 - 6:11:58 AM
Players Union Member

DC5

USA

14481 posts since 6/30/2015

A voluntary civic duty that we should take seriously. I know in some countries voting is mandatory, but there are many uninformed people that I'm just as happy don't vote, my sister being one of them.

Oct 31, 2020 - 6:37:13 AM
like this

Owen

Canada

6815 posts since 6/5/2011

I think it should be the civic duty of every level of government to include "declined ballot*" as an option... right on the face of the ballot.

Decades ago, in Saskatoon, SK is saw a van with "Don't vote... it only encourages them." painted on the side.

However, I do keep myself sorta informed, and I do vote, so I suppose that indicates something or other.   

And I'm not one to advocate violence, but IF somebody else took it upon himself/herself to throttle anybody who says "If you don't vote, you have no right to comment or express your opinion."  you wouldn't hear me complain.

* = along with an info campaign re. its express meaning: "Nobody on this ballot is worthy of my support."

Edit: and I don't vote a certain way because my dad did...and my grandpa did... and my great-grandpa did.... etc., etc.   I suppose that could fit in with being "sorta informed."

Edited by - Owen on 10/31/2020 06:44:21

Oct 31, 2020 - 6:39:21 AM

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

25110 posts since 8/3/2003

I definitely consider it a civic duty and a right that I'm proud we have.

I voted early and, thankfully, missed the crowds and I hope everyone has either voted early or will vote on election day. Your vote does count.

Oct 31, 2020 - 7:01:08 AM

m06

England

9236 posts since 10/5/2006

The relationship between individual tacit consent and government is defined by the social contract.

In our modern daily lives the social contract is as fundamental to how we live as oxygen. We can each have an opinion on how people ought to conduct themselves in regard to that relationship, but there is no duty in fact.

And how a person conducts his or herself has no bearing on the legal assumption of their tacit consent.

My opinion is that the choice to vote or not is determined by the presence of a credible option on the ballot paper.Therefore the real primary question is what duty do we have to ensure the presence of a true representative option?

Edited by - m06 on 10/31/2020 07:18:11

Oct 31, 2020 - 7:33:38 AM

m06

England

9236 posts since 10/5/2006

quote:
Originally posted by Owen

>I think it should be the civic duty of every level of government to include "declined ballot*" as an option... right on the face of the ballot<


Powerful idea. Increasingly the electorate are presented with a contrived fait accompli; a designed Disney-esque cartoon 'choice' between Donald Duck and Woody Woodpecker. Take it or leave it. Voting for X simply to cancel out Y (or vice versa) is a humiliating degradation of democratic potential.

A registered 'declined ballot' would reassert the independent and intelligent individual voice. One could argue that a spoiled ballot paper does the same, but in reality that act does not have the stamp of deliberation that a 'declined ballot' option provides. In theory, if imbued with the weight of a cast vote, a 'declined ballot' option could top the poll thereby restoring the true voice of the people and disqualifying the cartoon characters as 'suitable' representatives. 

And truth is a driver of representative change.

Edited by - m06 on 10/31/2020 07:45:08

Oct 31, 2020 - 7:37:03 AM

5494 posts since 12/20/2005

I consider voting not to be a privilege, but a right. As well as a duty.

Disturbingly, there are a number of individuals who are possessed with the intent to cast as many votes as possible.

Oct 31, 2020 - 7:40:04 AM
likes this

3012 posts since 4/29/2012

I agree. But it's depressing to always (well usually) vote for the "just about acceptable but not impressive candidate" in order to deny the "over my dead body" candidate. I'd much prefer a proportional representation system where my vote actually counted. How you do this in a presidential system where you are choosing a temporary monarch I don't know.

Oct 31, 2020 - 7:47:40 AM
likes this

2251 posts since 2/10/2013

Being a voter is a civic duty. But even more important, is to be an informed voter.

Oct 31, 2020 - 7:55:16 AM
likes this

RB3

USA

821 posts since 4/12/2004

Absolutely! Other than UK basketball however, the only association that a lot of Kentuckians have with a college, is the electoral college, so it's unlikely that I've cast my vote for the candidate who will get Kentucky's eight electoral votes.

I often hear the facetious comment about voting early and often; I suspect that I've already voted minus eight times.

Oct 31, 2020 - 7:59:48 AM

m06

England

9236 posts since 10/5/2006

quote:
Originally posted by GrahamHawker

Yes I do. However it's a two way street.


If we're going to use a thoroughfare metaphor it's probably now, more than ever, more accurate to describe it as 'a dark alley' where orchestrated thieves lurk among the trash cans.

Edited by - m06 on 10/31/2020 08:01:58

Oct 31, 2020 - 8:30:30 AM
likes this

10340 posts since 2/22/2007

Voting is not a duty and not a privilege. It is currently used to legitimize a razor thin electoral majority--between carefully curated choices---as a "mandate of the people".

If our governments were restrained to only their proper functions then most people would not really care so much who won because the result would not affect every aspect of our lives and the choice would be about competence and not which team of tyrants will forcibly impose their vision upon us.

Oct 31, 2020 - 8:44:16 AM

figmo59

USA

31940 posts since 3/5/2008

quote:
Originally posted by m06
quote:
Originally posted by Owen

>I think it should be the civic duty of every level of government to include "declined ballot*" as an option... right on the face of the ballot<


Powerful idea. Increasingly the electorate are presented with a contrived fait accompli; a designed Disney-esque cartoon 'choice' between Donald Duck and Woody Woodpecker. Take it or leave it. Voting for X simply to cancel out Y (or vice versa) is a humiliating degradation of democratic potential.

A registered 'declined ballot' would reassert the independent and intelligent individual voice. One could argue that a spoiled ballot paper does the same, but in reality that act does not have the stamp of deliberation that a 'declined ballot' option provides. In theory, if imbued with the weight of a cast vote, a 'declined ballot' option could top the poll thereby restoring the true voice of the people and disqualifying the cartoon characters as 'suitable' representatives. 

And truth is a driver of representative change.


We here..in the States...

 

Kinda make thos provisions... 

We can write in a candidate of or choice...

Even if it is a cartoon character....

 

I have had folks claim that they voted fer..Daffy Duck..

 

Pretty  much says how one feels... :0/

Oct 31, 2020 - 8:51:29 AM

figmo59

USA

31940 posts since 3/5/2008

To be clear...
I said...that I..personally consider it a duty...

I donot think it should be forced on annahone..
I have folks here that will not n refuse to vote...
They have their reasons... not that I claim to understand them..

Sadly these folks ..gripe of how everything is being run..n how unfair it is..

Imo..don't vote...don't..gripe.... :0/

N..they got all ..Uppidy..about it when I tell them that is how I see it... :0/

Oct 31, 2020 - 9:19:32 AM
Players Union Member

DC5

USA

14481 posts since 6/30/2015

quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

Voting is not a duty and not a privilege. It is currently used to legitimize a razor thin electoral majority--between carefully curated choices---as a "mandate of the people".

If our governments were restrained to only their proper functions then most people would not really care so much who won because the result would not affect every aspect of our lives and the choice would be about competence and not which team of tyrants will forcibly impose their vision upon us.


The problem is, at least here in the U.S., is that we put too much emphasis on the presidential race, which is a smoke and mirrors dog and pony show, and not enough on local and congressional elections.  Look at how few voters turn out for mid-term elections, for example.  The only direct democratic vote you have is for local officials, State officials, and your congressional representatives.  The president has very little constitutional power, and is often bullied by the Senate majority and the Speaker of the House.  If we truly want change, it has to be from the bottom up, which is where we have the most power and the loudest voice.  I'm not in favor of term limits, even for the president, but I'm in strong favor of we the people limiting terms.  We, the voters, should not allow anyone to hold any office for more than 12 years, and we should vote out incumbents frequently.  Unless we do this, we will see no change.  There have been members of congress who have held office for more than 50 years, which is more than 20% of the history of the country.  That is our fault.

Oct 31, 2020 - 9:22:49 AM
like this

chuckv97

Canada

53466 posts since 10/5/2013
Online Now

I personally don’t have a lot of respect for politicians....’nuff said

Oct 31, 2020 - 9:26:15 AM
like this
Players Union Member

DC5

USA

14481 posts since 6/30/2015

quote:
Originally posted by figmo59
quote:
Originally posted by m06
quote:
Originally posted by Owen

>I think it should be the civic duty of every level of government to include "declined ballot*" as an option... right on the face of the ballot<


Powerful idea. Increasingly the electorate are presented with a contrived fait accompli; a designed Disney-esque cartoon 'choice' between Donald Duck and Woody Woodpecker. Take it or leave it. Voting for X simply to cancel out Y (or vice versa) is a humiliating degradation of democratic potential.

A registered 'declined ballot' would reassert the independent and intelligent individual voice. One could argue that a spoiled ballot paper does the same, but in reality that act does not have the stamp of deliberation that a 'declined ballot' option provides. In theory, if imbued with the weight of a cast vote, a 'declined ballot' option could top the poll thereby restoring the true voice of the people and disqualifying the cartoon characters as 'suitable' representatives. 

And truth is a driver of representative change.


We here..in the States...

 

Kinda make thos provisions... 

We can write in a candidate of or choice...

Even if it is a cartoon character....

 

I have had folks claim that they voted fer..Daffy Duck..

 

Pretty  much says how one feels... :0/


The first elections after I turned 35 I voted for myself, as this was the only constitutional requirement, other than being a natural born citizen.  I could not see voting for either of the 2 so called candidates, and by voting for myself it gave me the right to complain about how things were being done and to say "Well, if the guy I voted for had gotten in we wouldn't be in this mess."  I told anyone who asked me who I was voting for that this was my plan. (I hate being asked who I'm voting for, and I NEVER tell, either before or after the election)  The local paper printed the results of all the votes, including the write in votes for Mickey Mouse, Alfred E. Newman, Bugs Bunny et. al.  I was surprised to see that I got 4 votes that year. 

Oct 31, 2020 - 9:40:40 AM
like this

Paul R

Canada

13327 posts since 1/28/2010

It's a privilege in comparison to some other countries. It's a right under law and, in some places, a right that is denied via voter suppression tactics. And it's a duty in that not voting enables corruption.

We have the declined/refused ballot initiative here in Ontario.

In the end, I feel that democracy is not maintained just by the act of voting, but by continually being factually informed and being active in expressing opinions to the elected representatives and government officials at whatever level is relevant. Being involved in issues and attending meetings, conferences, and the like, participating by joining boards and committees, are ways to connect with the workings of the various levels of government. Taking part this way has allowed me to see the human side of elected reps and staff, too.

"It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance." John Philpot Curran 1790

Oct 31, 2020 - 10:01:12 AM

Owen

Canada

6815 posts since 6/5/2011

My understanding is that declined ballots are a provision in some Cdn. provinces... but not federally.   The MB process looks very much like Ontario's..... but the last time I tried, the returning officer said to "just write 'declined' anywhere on the front of the ballot,"  even though there was no space other than in the white strip with a candidates name or the blank white circle. I found out later that it was supposed to be on the back of the ballot, even though the back was completely covered with some cross-hatching (?) design.   I guess I'm not as "informed" as I should be.

Chuck, my pop was on RM council for 25+ consecutive years.... mostly as reeve... mostly by acclamation.    I hope there's some wiggle room in your assessment.  wink    Having said that, I think one factor in the amount of jiggery-pokery is how far away from home the politician is.

Edited by - Owen on 10/31/2020 10:02:12

Oct 31, 2020 - 10:26:17 AM
like this

55994 posts since 12/14/2005

My VERY FAVORITE voting story, from several years back.

It was an ODD numbered, therefore NOT Presidential, voting day.
I was conducting business with the manager of the grocery store up about 72nd & Silver Spring, northwest corner of Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
Across the street, various groups had hired buses to go around and bring senior citizens who didn't have a ride, over to the Senior Center, to vote.

I mentioned that to the grocery store's manager, as we stood near the store's front entrance.
Also mentioned that the radio had said that a LOW turnout was expected, since it was an off year, AND the weather was cold and drizzly.

His reply was unforgettable:

***********************************************************
"I walked through a mine field, to get out of Hungary, and come here to become a citizen. It's going to take a lot more than a few raindrops to keep me from voting!"
************************************************************

I cannot tell this story out loud, without beginning to weep (just a little).

I weep in shame for all my born-here neighbors who don't much care to bother to vote.

 

My second favorite story is my oft-repeated threat to change my name to None Of Those Idiots, and run for ANY elective office!  A lot of people, seeing that as a choice, would mark it with no hesitation.
 

Oct 31, 2020 - 10:37:01 AM

608 posts since 1/28/2013

Elections are just a Poll of Political attitudes that the Government is conducting. That is why they call it going to the Polls. Both Candidates are run by the same People. They are just finding out how to move ahead with their Agenda. The outcome of an election doesn't matter, because both Candidates are one in the same, just different faces and name. The entire charade is like WWE Wrestlemania. All the pre-match banter is real, the moves, strength and athletic agility is real, but the outcome is already decided.

Edited by - jan dupree on 10/31/2020 10:40:46

Oct 31, 2020 - 11:11:10 AM

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

25110 posts since 8/3/2003

Well, it's gotten more controversial and more snarky and more political. I was hoping we could keep it neutral and just about our right to or not to vote, but that hasn't happened.

Locked, political.

 New Topic  Topic Locked

Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

0.265625