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Oct 26, 2020 - 5:38:11 PM
13475 posts since 10/30/2008

I have nothing to do with this offering, but Holy Schnikes!!!! An original 5 string Style F Paramount. Weeeeeelll Doggies! As the ol' Road Hog would say "Mighty fine, mighty fine...mighty purty..."

banjohangout.org/classified/83985

Oct 26, 2020 - 7:46:16 PM

10844 posts since 4/23/2004

Being a Paramount fan, I'd rather have this than a prewar Gibson.

Oct 26, 2020 - 7:54:50 PM

Bill Rogers (Moderator)

USA

24101 posts since 6/25/2005
Online Now

Gorgeous. A collector’s piece for sure. Of course 80 percent of players who might want it are, like Banana, at that age where they are unloading their banjos, not buying.

Oct 26, 2020 - 8:12:36 PM

5497 posts since 12/20/2005
Online Now

I gotta wonder, is the rim on a Style F, constructed of rosewood ?
I have a Paramount Leader. The core of the rim is of a light colored wood, presumably maple. But that is covered by rosewood veneer.

Oct 26, 2020 - 9:11:46 PM

623 posts since 1/28/2013

With that tone hoop I would have to hear it at that price. But collectors are not interested in the tone.

Oct 27, 2020 - 1:07:36 AM

LarsHansen

Denmark

27 posts since 2/1/2016

quote:
Originally posted by jan dupree

With that tone hoop I would have to hear it at that price. But collectors are not interested in the tone.


The 'hoop' is only a small part of the Paramount tone ring. There's an outer skirt and an inner hoop connected by cross-braces, delivering a fine tone - I had a Paramount tenor in my tenor-playing days, and it was loud and clear as a bell, less harsh than a Gibson-style tone ring.

But yeah, it sure is expensive.

Oct 27, 2020 - 3:05:32 AM

eljimb0

USA

1999 posts since 7/24/2007

I would love to spend an afternoon with that banjo on my knee.

Oct 27, 2020 - 8:55:05 AM

1151 posts since 5/19/2018

About as rare as it gets. Beautiful instrument.

Would love to add that to my collection. But.....

Oct 27, 2020 - 6:24:56 PM

623 posts since 1/28/2013

quote:
Originally posted by LarsHansen
quote:
Originally posted by jan dupree

With that tone hoop I would have to hear it at that price. But collectors are not interested in the tone.


The 'hoop' is only a small part of the Paramount tone ring. There's an outer skirt and an inner hoop connected by cross-braces, delivering a fine tone - I had a Paramount tenor in my tenor-playing days, and it was loud and clear as a bell, less harsh than a Gibson-style tone ring.

But yeah, it sure is expensive.


My 1929 Epiphone Concert Recording tenor is the same way. A really sharp crisp high pitched tone, but kind of thin, even with the frosted head I have on it. I don't think I would care for that tone on a 5 string. I have heard others say also that they don't make good conversions. I still have the original catalog that came with the Epiphone in 1929. It states that any banjo in the catalog is also offered in 5 string upon special order. But at the time they knew virtually nothing about 5 string playing style and music type, and all they thought they had to do was add a 5 th string, and make a longer neck just a wide enough for the 5th string, and sold it as is. Gibson did the same thing. That's why the necks were too thick, and too narrow, with strings too close together for Clawhammer and Bluegrass 3 finger style. But at least Epiphone had the 5/8th bridge on their tenor, Gibson kept the 1/2 inch bridge and never changed it, even for the 5 string version.  

Oct 28, 2020 - 2:31:46 PM

7877 posts since 8/28/2013

I once met a guy in California who played a variety of styles on a Paramount "C" five string. He certainly had absolutely no problems with the neck being too narrow, or with string spacing. Clawhammer, bluegrass, or any other banjo licks were easy for him,. and the banjo sounded wonderful.

Oct 29, 2020 - 6:24:25 PM

623 posts since 1/28/2013

quote:
Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

I once met a guy in California who played a variety of styles on a Paramount "C" five string. He certainly had absolutely no problems with the neck being too narrow, or with string spacing. Clawhammer, bluegrass, or any other banjo licks were easy for him,. and the banjo sounded wonderful.


Most companies including Gibson even in the 70's had the narrow 1' 3/16th nutwidth. Standard nutwidth on modern banjos today is 1'1/4 with some at 1 5/16ths. Some guys, especially Clawhammer are going even wider. Bridges also have wider string spacing today, and higher bridges. Vega and Gibson in the 60's were still making 1/2 inch bridges, 5/8ths is standard today, with many at .656 inches. Huber, and some Chinese makes are about the only builders issuing standard 1 3/16th necks today. Huber does it for authenticity reasons, and the Chinese might do it because they are trying to copy a pre-war. Fingertip shape and hand width with have a lot to do with ability to play those narrow necks. Also, playing styles have changed. Wide squared off finger tips dp better with wider nut widths. Also Melodic and Progressive styles tend to favor wide necks and  wide spaced  high bridges. Same thing happened with Guitars. Gibson and Martin are 2 examples.

Oct 30, 2020 - 6:44:45 AM

7877 posts since 8/28/2013

I'm not agruing with any of that. I was merely answering your first statement about not being able to play a narrow neck. It would seem obvious to me that some people can, in fact play them. Saying that these original 5 string banjos were made by people who "knew virtually nothing" is a bit of a stretch because these banjos were most likely based on earlier makers' products. After all, the 5 string banjo came well before the 4 string models that were produced by Paramount and others (Lange, in fact, started his career making 5 stringers, not tenor banjos). Although styles have changed, and building practices have changed because of that, there is no reason to say that the original Gibsons, Paramouints, and Epiphones were made the wrong way; they were correct for their day and their purpose.

Oct 30, 2020 - 7:44:16 AM

5719 posts since 9/21/2007
Online Now

Lange was very well versed in finger style banjo (what we now call “classic style”). Not only was he a member of the Guild of Banjoists, Mandolinists , and Guitarists, but he also knew most of the pros.

I’ve read the actual letters he wrote to Shirley Spaulding about her two Orpheum banjos he built for her, as well as getting her to demo his banjos at the Guild convention (I know who owns each of those banjos now).

Gibson built banjos for classic players as well, including a fully custom banjo for Alex McGee. But those were very rare and their stock in trade was plectrum played instruments (including regular banjos played with a plectrum and steel strings).

Oct 30, 2020 - 8:53:37 PM

623 posts since 1/28/2013

quote:
Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

I'm not agruing with any of that. I was merely answering your first statement about not being able to play a narrow neck. It would seem obvious to me that some people can, in fact play them. Saying that these original 5 string banjos were made by people who "knew virtually nothing" is a bit of a stretch because these banjos were most likely based on earlier makers' products. After all, the 5 string banjo came well before the 4 string models that were produced by Paramount and others (Lange, in fact, started his career making 5 stringers, not tenor banjos). Although styles have changed, and building practices have changed because of that, there is no reason to say that the original Gibsons, Paramouints, and Epiphones were made the wrong way; they were correct for their day and their purpose.


As a 4 and 5 string banjo player, I know that the two have nothing in common, they are totally different instruments, in both tone and playability. Gibsons flathead tone ring is the only feature that allows it to be converted to 5 string.  Yeah, Scruggs style brought changes to the 5 string banjo, and players like Keith, Fleck, and Trishka brought changes again in the 70's. Changes are happening again today. Playing and music styles and taste change, tone, playability and build has to change to meet the demand. Who knows what will be going on with the banjo 40 years from now.

Nov 3, 2020 - 6:20:41 AM

192 posts since 4/7/2010

What a banjo!!

Nov 7, 2020 - 6:56:46 PM

1041 posts since 2/6/2006

This rare original 5-string Para Style F does not have a “narrow” neck/fretboard. As the seller of this exquisite instrument, to Lowell, in 1972/73(?) I should know. My story of acquisition is interesting...but I was seeking an old original Gibson & sold it to further my hunt.
Brian
p.s. it was played extensively, w/ zero abuse, as a plectrum...but, fortunately, the original 5th-string friction gold-plated mop tuner peg was still in the original case’s “boot”
It’s a dream collector’s instrument
Brian

Edited by - rupickin5 on 11/07/2020 18:57:27

Nov 9, 2020 - 8:57:09 AM

Cleitus

New Zealand

379 posts since 6/10/2011

Ooooooooh Me see - ME WAAAAAANT!! Even at 11 grand I'd be 'in like Flynn' if I had it but sadly about 8 grand too light at the moment. Oh well it looks so gorgeous that I don't think I'd be happy playing it as it would wear things away- which kind of negates the point - unless of course I had TWO to spread the wear about.

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