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Oct 21, 2020 - 4:27:21 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

5291 posts since 5/16/2012

I have not listed this for sale yet....this is just a feeler for any one interested in purchasing a nice late 60s PB500 Gibson from New Zealand...One of only 4 or 5 ever made I believe. The exchange rate between the $US and $NZ might make this a viable transaction for buyer and seller. There would be little interest to buy this within NZ...but there may be in the US.


Edited by - Texasbanjo on 10/23/2020 04:45:44

Oct 21, 2020 - 4:40:41 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

5291 posts since 5/16/2012

Serial Number...882069

Oct 21, 2020 - 5:06:23 PM

2466 posts since 3/30/2008

Interest depends on condition, price & shipping.

Oct 21, 2020 - 7:12:29 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

5291 posts since 5/16/2012

quote:
Originally posted by tdennis

Interest depends on condition, price & shipping.


Thanks.....I can do some good pics if there's interest.  Condition I would say is very good.   Only exception to being excellent condition is some owner, in the past, scratched his initials on the inside of the rim... ie 2 small letters about 10mm high ( from memory ).  I would be happy if the US landed price ( banjo and freight )  was to be about the US going rate for local price...just banjo.    At this stage I've no idea what that may be.... NZ to USA exchange rate should make it a viable deal for both parties.

Edited by - nakigreengrass on 10/21/2020 19:14:47

Oct 23, 2020 - 12:18:39 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

5291 posts since 5/16/2012

bump.

Oct 23, 2020 - 5:12:12 PM

Lynne (Moderator)

USA

5077 posts since 3/3/2003

Are you selling this banjo??

Oct 23, 2020 - 8:18:33 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

5291 posts since 5/16/2012

Just gauging interest at this stage, Lynne. For all I know, there could be someone in banjo land that considers this their dream banjo. Selling it into the US will take some figuring out, but If someone was keen enough and the price made it worth it, I'd make the time. If not, I'll just sell it here, but it's unlikely to be appreciated for what it is or unlikely to get anywhere near it's true value.

Oct 23, 2020 - 9:16:58 PM
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banjonz

New Zealand

11043 posts since 6/29/2003
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by nakigreengrass

Just gauging interest at this stage, Lynne. For all I know, there could be someone in banjo land that considers this their dream banjo. Selling it into the US will take some figuring out, but If someone was keen enough and the price made it worth it, I'd make the time. If not, I'll just sell it here, but it's unlikely to be appreciated for what it is or unlikely to get anywhere near it's true value.


True. I don't think there would really be anyone who actually would play it. The plectrum players I used to know are long gone. Anyone playing dixieland on it would be few and far between. Maybe someone would want to turn it into a 5 string. 

Oct 23, 2020 - 10:26:36 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

5291 posts since 5/16/2012

Hi Wayne. I've been playing it as a 5 string for years, but the neck was just something I knocked up to make it a player, and would not add any value to it. Haven't picked for the last few years due to aging old engineers hand problems and waning interest in BG, so will just keep my Tom Warren and various other OT banjoes.

Edited by - nakigreengrass on 10/23/2020 22:30:23

Oct 26, 2020 - 12:51:07 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

5291 posts since 5/16/2012

OK...After 320 reads in banjo land..... It's safe to say there is very little interest in this. Thanks, I'll put it on the NZ trademe for a few hundred bucks and see what happens....

Oct 26, 2020 - 1:05:52 PM

1499 posts since 4/13/2017

nakigreengrass
A few hundred bucks? If you were in the US, I'd be VERY eager to buy this for a few hundred bucks!

However, you are not in the US, and shipping would probably cost more than a few hundred. Would you be opposed to sharing the serial number?

I see there were only five of these ever made, two in 1965, one in 1967, one in 1968, and one in 1969. Does this banjo have a multi-ply rim or a 3 ply rim?

Oct 26, 2020 - 1:14:34 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

5291 posts since 5/16/2012

Hi Hunter...serial # 882069. It's got a veneer cap on the bottom of the rim, so dont know how many plys....but... It's a full thickness rim like all 500s and 800s have.

Oct 26, 2020 - 1:48:32 PM

1499 posts since 4/13/2017

Paul
Your PB-500 is the only one made in 1967. The rarity factor should add value, as will the fact that it has a full thickness rim. Do you know if it the standard Gibson tone ring of the time, or is it a Faulkner tone ring that is sometimes found in these banjos?

If it is the Faulkner, that adds a bit of value.

However, the fact still remains that it is unknown if it is a 3-ply or multi-ply rim (unless you disassemble it and check under the tone ring), and that it is a plectrum.

If it was confirmed that it had a Faulkner ring and 3-ply rim, this banjo would probably be very valuable, even though it is a plectrum.

If this banjo was in the US and I knew it had a Faulkner ring and 3-ply rim, I'd probably buy it and convert it to a 5-string, since I build banjos.

Oct 26, 2020 - 2:37:27 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

5291 posts since 5/16/2012

It's been years since I've had it apart, when I made a 5 string neck for it....but I do remember it had no markings on the ring to identify it. I've read all the Faulkner ring threads here on the HO, and there doesn't seem to be a conclusive method of identification. Unless you know otherwise...i'm quite happy pulling it apart...i'm a pretty confident luthier.

Oct 26, 2020 - 3:26:02 PM
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1499 posts since 4/13/2017

quote:
Originally posted by nakigreengrass

It's been years since I've had it apart, when I made a 5 string neck for it....but I do remember it had no markings on the ring to identify it. I've read all the Faulkner ring threads here on the HO, and there doesn't seem to be a conclusive method of identification. Unless you know otherwise...i'm quite happy pulling it apart...i'm a pretty confident luthier.


From what I gather, Faulkner rings have the lag bolt hole positioned not exactly between two of the 20 holes, but 1/4" away from one of the 20 holes. The brother of a good friend of mine has a 1969 RB-250 that has the Faulkner ring, and its lag bolt hole isn't centered, but is 1/4" from one of the 20 holes. If you decide to take it apart to check, also check the top of the rim to see if it is 3-plies or multi-plies.

Oct 26, 2020 - 6:17:01 PM

1499 posts since 4/13/2017

nakigreengrass
Paul

I just thought I would let you know, before you go disassembling your banjo (hope I'm not too late haha) that I done some research, and it appears that all of the 500s and 800s used 3-ply rims. And as for finding out if your tone ring is a Faulkner, just look at the coordinator rod position in comparison to the holes in the tone ring.

Oct 26, 2020 - 7:32:21 PM

13459 posts since 10/30/2008

The last couple of RB 500s I've seen offered for sale here in the US were priced about $3500. I suppose they sold for a bit less.

Anyone here who bought your banjo would have to spend around $1000 for a proper 5 string neck. Yours is a bit unusual because it has a PB 800 peghead on a PB 500 fingerboard!

Another thing for these 1960s gold plated Mastertones is the quality of the gold plating. It's not unusual for them to show a LOT of wear, the gold plate was very very thin. The more wear to your gold, the lower the interest might be. I checked a few years ago and Huber banjos was charging around $800 to replate a banjo.

Also, folks in the US might tend to be "wary" about doing business overseas, unless they're really experienced at it. A first timer might be worried about unexpected customs duties to get hit with, fees, taxes, etc.

It would be a very dedicated RB 500 fan who might show the kind of interest you're apparently looking for, based on all these factors. You'd need to provide a LOT more "bait" in the form of many good clear photos inside and out, convincing someone curious that YOU can manage shipping and duties, fees, taxes so that there is no "surprise" after money is exchanged and perhaps the banjo gets "hung up" somewhere. Naming a price can only help dispel doubts.

Also, it's probably a very off-putting thought for a potential buyer to think he/she might have to manage returning the banjo to you for a refund if they find they don't like something about it.

Lots of hurdles, in other words.

Oct 26, 2020 - 7:52:33 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

5291 posts since 5/16/2012

Thanks Hunter....Just a quick look with the resonator off...on the lag screw end, it appears the con rod seems to be about 2mm to the left of the tone ring hole and the tail peice end is about 3mm to the right of it.

Pretty skant evidence I would say as to the maker. In 1967, eyeball set ups in dividing heads would have been the norm. Without modern quick hand release drill chucks, the 2 con rod holes were probably drilled at one time and then the 20 holes drilled in another, to save changing out drill bits, if there was no need of a accurate relationship between one set of holes and anothers. ( I was an apprentice boy in a machine shop about this time ) . I cant see how there could of been a consistent error of 1/4" for one manufacturer, as that would require a precision machining process, to put that consistent measurement in, which there just was no need for. Dividing heads have a ratio of 40 to 1, so 20 holes is just two turns of the handle...more complex divisions requires using the correct hole plates on the dividing head, which is a skilled job and completely unnecessary here.

Oct 26, 2020 - 8:25:19 PM
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1499 posts since 4/13/2017

quote:
Originally posted by nakigreengrass

Thanks Hunter....Just a quick look with the resonator off...on the lag screw end, it appears the con rod seems to be about 2mm to the left of the tone ring hole and the tail peice end is about 3mm to the right of it.

Pretty skant evidence I would say as to the maker. In 1967, eyeball set ups in dividing heads would have been the norm. Without modern quick hand release drill chucks, the 2 con rod holes were probably drilled at one time and then the 20 holes drilled in another, to save changing out drill bits, if there was no need of a accurate relationship between one set of holes and anothers. ( I was an apprentice boy in a machine shop about this time ) . I cant see how there could of been a consistent error of 1/4" for one manufacturer, as that would require a precision machining process, to put that consistent measurement in, which there just was no need for. Dividing heads have a ratio of 40 to 1, so 20 holes is just two turns of the handle...more complex divisions requires using the correct hole plates on the dividing head, which is a skilled job and completely unnecessary here.


Yeah, I should've known that. 1/4" seems to be the general consensus, although I definitely agree that it can vary (as yours does). However, I just found out within the past few hours that not all Faulkner rings have the offset hole, and not all Gibson rings have the centered hole. So while yours may be the Faulkner, the only way to actually know for sure is to have Frank Neat take a look at it. And I'm sure you don't want to send a tone ring to Frank, have it verified, then sent back to you.

Oct 29, 2020 - 1:13:03 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

5291 posts since 5/16/2012

quote:
Originally posted by The Old Timer




It would be a very dedicated RB 500 fan who might show the kind of interest you're apparently looking for, based on all these factors. 

 

I was hoping to find a plectrum player that was interested in this, for what it is.    As I said, because of the exchange rate, the landed price in the US could be very attractive to a buyer there.

Edited by - nakigreengrass on 10/29/2020 13:13:44

Nov 1, 2020 - 5:51:18 AM

Brett

USA

2396 posts since 11/29/2005

So, you want the buyer to contact you off line and negotiate an off line sale, that’s your intent, if they offer you enough. Because you have no way of knowing what it’s worth. Am I understanding?
And you’re frustrated so you want to grow angry and throw it on local ad for a few hundred? because no one will tell you what your PB-500 is worth?
Please don’t be frustrated, and “punish” those who won’t make an offer by selling for a song. Before you do that, consider what others in your situation can do to resolve your total lack of knowledge on your own banjo, that must have zero information on the internet to help them either.
Email 4 or 5 very nice pix to a major seller here in the US, pay them their fee for written appraisal, then you get more money and you’re not frustrated no one makes you an offer. Recognized sources written appraisal are usually well received and recognized by potential buyers. It will cost you less than you’re gong to lose not doing any research yourself or not finding any info when you do.
And, I can understand, a model 500 isn’t common.

Nov 1, 2020 - 5:58:11 AM

Brett

USA

2396 posts since 11/29/2005

If you don’t wish to spend less than a hundred bucks to make more money on your sale, perhaps you should list it on eBay and let the market decide. The market will decide, there are lots of viewers on eBay.

Or you could stick it on ads here in BHO for “best offer”, I guess. but then you’re in same boat. This is a banjo you have zero feel for the value, from what I gather, and you have spent hours trying to figure out from internet searches to no avail. So, you have zero idea if an offer of $1200 is reasonable or not. So, if you have zero idea what your banjos worth, you could be greatly taken advantage of by refusing to spend $75 on a written appraisal based on clear owner provided pix.

Nov 1, 2020 - 6:54:23 AM

518 posts since 2/15/2015
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by banjonz
quote:
Originally posted by nakigreengrass

Just gauging interest at this stage, Lynne. For all I know, there could be someone in banjo land that considers this their dream banjo. Selling it into the US will take some figuring out, but If someone was keen enough and the price made it worth it, I'd make the time. If not, I'll just sell it here, but it's unlikely to be appreciated for what it is or unlikely to get anywhere near it's true value.


True. I don't think there would really be anyone who actually would play it. The plectrum players I used to know are long gone. Anyone playing dixieland on it would be few and far between. Maybe someone would want to turn it into a 5 string. 


"Maybe someone would want to turn it into a 5 string"

What? There's plenty of 5-string banjos to go around & there's no need to take a fine representation such as this Gibson and massacre it for the sake of yet another 5-string banjo.

Nov 1, 2020 - 12:09:01 PM

banjonz

New Zealand

11043 posts since 6/29/2003
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by geoB
quote:
Originally posted by banjonz
quote:
Originally posted by nakigreengrass

Just gauging interest at this stage, Lynne. For all I know, there could be someone in banjo land that considers this their dream banjo. Selling it into the US will take some figuring out, but If someone was keen enough and the price made it worth it, I'd make the time. If not, I'll just sell it here, but it's unlikely to be appreciated for what it is or unlikely to get anywhere near it's true value.


True. I don't think there would really be anyone who actually would play it. The plectrum players I used to know are long gone. Anyone playing dixieland on it would be few and far between. Maybe someone would want to turn it into a 5 string. 


"Maybe someone would want to turn it into a 5 string"

What? There's plenty of 5-string banjos to go around & there's no need to take a fine representation such as this Gibson and massacre it for the sake of yet another 5-string banjo.

I agree. However, from about the 50's onwards, prewar Gibson tenors and plectrums were converted into 5 strings by the dozens. As bluegrass was all the rage, there was little demand for 4 string instruments. Many of there still have the original tenor necks available whenever these banjos are sold.

Nov 2, 2020 - 9:04:16 AM

Fud

USA

284 posts since 9/10/2013

Perhaps the OP, who is in New Zealand, doesn't know who in the US offers legitimate knowledgeable appraisals. Off the top of my head Gryphon Strings in Palo Alto, Gruhn in Nashville, and Bernunzio Music in Rochester NY. All are on the web. All charge a fee. All are respected appraisers.

I hope this helps.

Nov 2, 2020 - 10:56:43 AM

banjonz

New Zealand

11043 posts since 6/29/2003
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by Fud

Perhaps the OP, who is in New Zealand, doesn't know who in the US offers legitimate knowledgeable appraisals. Off the top of my head Gryphon Strings in Palo Alto, Gruhn in Nashville, and Bernunzio Music in Rochester NY. All are on the web. All charge a fee. All are respected appraisers.

I hope this helps.


We may live in the antipodes, but that doesn't mean we are out of touch. Those of us who have been in the banjo scene a long time know these names and that we can obtain appraisals from them.

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