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Sep 25, 2020 - 9:14:34 PM
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Bill Rogers (Moderator)

USA

23981 posts since 6/25/2005

We’ve been through this before, but I’ve seen it cropping up again, so:

By definition a used banjo, no matter how clean, cannot be in "mint condition." It may be "as new," or "virtually unplayed," or "near mint," but it cannot be "mint." That term refers to straight from the maker. 

Sep 25, 2020 - 9:33:20 PM
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11140 posts since 6/2/2008

Words have meaning.

Who knew?

Sep 26, 2020 - 3:34:11 AM
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Alex Z

USA

3951 posts since 12/7/2006

"Mint" in banjo commerce may mean "undistinguishable from straight from the maker", although previously sold at retail.  Same as a coin.

I'd agree that very very few banjos that have been purchased at retail and subsequently offered for sale are "mint."   I've never seen one.  So "mint" is always an overstatement of condition, for me.

There are plenty of not-yet-sold banjos hanging on the wall of a music shop that are no longer "mint."    smiley

Sep 26, 2020 - 3:38:54 AM
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55756 posts since 12/14/2005

There is this:


Sep 26, 2020 - 4:05:18 AM
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Alex Z

USA

3951 posts since 12/7/2006

The words "like new" may be a more useful description than "mint."

Also, have to be aware of the standards.  One dealer I've seen may use the word "excellent" condition.  What does this mean?

Have to know that the dealer's spectrum is:

  - mint

  - near mint

  - excellent +++

  - excellent ++

  - excellent +

  - excellent

So "excellent" condition is six steps down the ladder! 

Sep 26, 2020 - 7:05:55 AM
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2949 posts since 2/18/2009

It's a good point about mint. Isn't this particular forum supposed to be only used for posts that refer to a specific classified ad, or am I mixed up again?

Sep 26, 2020 - 7:31:23 AM

KCJones

USA

951 posts since 8/30/2012

Where does 'new old stock' fit in?

What about a banjo that's never been sold, but has been 'tested' hundreds of times without cleaning, and is covered in dust?

What about a banjo that is new, straight from the maker, but has a blemish? Is that Mint B-Stock?

I think I've made my point.

Sep 26, 2020 - 9:58:18 AM

rcc56

USA

3174 posts since 2/20/2016

I'm more concerned about the ever expanding practice of describing significantly worn instruments as "excellent."

A while back, there was a '50's Martin guitar that was heavily worn advertised on another forum as excellent. When I made note of it, not only did the seller justify his description by saying it was "excellent for its age" [which it was not], but friends of his came to his defense. It's easy to gather a posse on an internet forum. But that didn't change the fact that the instrument had had the heck beat out of it.

The quickest ways I know to discourage me from a purchase are to over-rate the condition of an instrument, or list it without publishing a price, and/or to list an instrument with a "no-returns" policy.

Edited by - rcc56 on 09/26/2020 09:59:00

Sep 26, 2020 - 11:25:14 AM

Bill Rogers (Moderator)

USA

23981 posts since 6/25/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Zachary Hoyt

It's a good point about mint. Isn't this particular forum supposed to be only used for posts that refer to a specific classified ad, or am I mixed up again?


It is "for the discussion of classified ad listings." And that is what this thread is discussing. Though usually a thread is about one listing, that is not a requirement.

Sep 26, 2020 - 11:29:39 AM

Bill Rogers (Moderator)

USA

23981 posts since 6/25/2005

quote:
Originally posted by KCJones

Where does 'new old stock' fit in?

What about a banjo that's never been sold, but has been 'tested' hundreds of times without cleaning, and is covered in dust?

What about a banjo that is new, straight from the maker, but has a blemish? Is that Mint B-Stock?

I think I've made my point.

1) New, old-stock may still be "mint" if it's been sitting untouched in a case.

2) "shopworn" -- It's a standard term.

3) That works.

Sep 26, 2020 - 11:35:40 AM

2949 posts since 2/18/2009

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rogers
quote:
Originally posted by Zachary Hoyt

It's a good point about mint. Isn't this particular forum supposed to be only used for posts that refer to a specific classified ad, or am I mixed up again?


It is "for the discussion of classified ad listings." And that is what this thread is discussing. Though usually a thread is about one listing, that is not a requirement.


I don't like to disagree with a moderator, as I am very grateful for all the excellent work you all do keeping the BHO running smoothly and civilly.  I think the 'Swap Shop Rules' sticky at the top of this forum says that posts that are not related to the OP's classified ads are not permitted and may be moved at the discretion of... etc.  I'll stop making the thread drift now, condition description is certainly an important topic.

Sep 26, 2020 - 12:28:24 PM

2591 posts since 4/16/2003

Instead of "mint", I would use the phrasing:
"Near-mint, extremely fine condition"...

Sep 26, 2020 - 12:48:44 PM
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5460 posts since 12/20/2005

IMO only, mint would be the term for an item that has been purchased, but is unused and precisely in the condition it left the original manufacture. That is going to almost never happen. Only if someone made the purchase, took it home, and locked it in a vault or something. Playing Cripple Creek one time through would be risky.
The slightest deviation from factory original condition, removes the item from being accurately described as in mint condition.
Again, just my opinion.

Sep 26, 2020 - 2:53:38 PM

2267 posts since 10/17/2013
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by Leslie R

IMO only, mint would be the term for an item that has been purchased, but is unused and precisely in the condition it left the original manufacture. That is going to almost never happen. Only if someone made the purchase, took it home, and locked it in a vault or something. Playing Cripple Creek one time through would be risky.
The slightest deviation from factory original condition, removes the item from being accurately described as in mint condition.
Again, just my opinion.


EXACTLY!

Sep 26, 2020 - 5:40:25 PM

Scout70

USA

228 posts since 8/4/2006

I think you are too narrowly defining the definition of “mint condition.” If you look up the definition of “mint condition” it has a broader meaning than directly from the factory. This is from the dictionary definition:

“Mint condition is an expression used in the description of pre-owned goods. Originally, the phrase related to the way collectors described the condition of coins. As the name given to a coin factory is a "mint", then mint condition is the condition a coin is in when it leaves the mint. Over time, the term "mint" began to be used to describe many different items having excellent, like-new quality.”

Concours condition is similar

Sep 26, 2020 - 9:15:33 PM

11140 posts since 6/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by KCJones

Where does 'new old stock' fit in?
What about a banjo that's never been sold, but has been 'tested' hundreds of times without cleaning, and is covered in dust?
What about a banjo that is new, straight from the maker, but has a blemish? Is that Mint B-Stock?
I think I've made my point.


New old stock is mint.

A new banjo played a lot in the store is not mint, especially if it's shop worn, showing the signs of all that playing. It's legally new. Maybe excellent condition. But if you can see wear, it's not mint.

A new blemished instrument straight from the factory is mint. If it wasn't sold by the factory as B stock -- such as offered at a lower price -- then it's not B stock. But if it left the factory with the blemish, then t's mint with an original blemish.

Mint means the same condition as when it left the factory. 

This is not a difficult concept.

Sep 29, 2020 - 9:08:05 AM

10838 posts since 1/15/2005

I bought/traded for a previously owned Deering Saratoga Star at a guitar show and I am pretty sure that it may not have ever been taken out of the case. The case still had plastic wrapping around it (or maybe just the handle) but regardless it was absolutely perfect. I would not know what to call it other than mint. Because you did not get it straight from the factory does not mean it is not mint. Coin analogy, I think, is a good one.

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