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Sep 18, 2020 - 6:47:48 PM

mander

USA

4403 posts since 10/7/2007

While I have known hard cord alcoholics all my life, I do not believe that I have ever been around someone suffering the DTs. I'm listening to an audio book where one of the characters explains that the DTs are different depending on what type of alcohol was consumed. Gin DTs being different from wine DTs and rum DTs and so on. The other character calls BS.

Who is right?

Sep 18, 2020 - 7:05:20 PM

Owen

Canada

6515 posts since 6/5/2011
Online Now

I can't speak from experience, but because of this   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens  for now, I'll cast my lot with the "other character."   

Sep 19, 2020 - 6:46:08 AM
Players Union Member

DC5

USA

13943 posts since 6/30/2015

The only way I can see this as true is the alcohol content of each of the alcohols. 151 Rum, for example will get you a whole lot quicker than 80 proof Vodka if the same amount is consumed in the same period. Don't ask me how I know this, but I won't even walk past a bottle of 151 Rum. Otherwise, it is your bodies reaction to alcohol withdrawal, so I would side with the second character. This is all conjecture based on nothing.

Sep 19, 2020 - 7:05:59 AM

55755 posts since 12/14/2005

These two, which are domesticated, would not venture to guess.

But a WILD-ass guess might be that each individual brain will generate somewhat different  reactions to having been poisoned.

So, I'm siding with the other character.

Sep 19, 2020 - 10:03:41 AM

9668 posts since 8/22/2006

The different types of DTs may be possible after all,I have heard the expression "she/ he is a whole lot different type of drunk on tequila" so with that aspect In mind.

Sep 20, 2020 - 10:55:57 AM
Players Union Member

Brian T

Canada

17104 posts since 6/5/2008

Delirium tremens. The expression of an over-loaded nervous system, previously dulled by alcohol.
You might hear them ask for " a little of the dog that bit me" to shut down the false firing.

I can't drink enough. 2 or 3 and I want to curl up like the cat and have a quiet little snooze.

Sep 23, 2020 - 4:31:43 AM
like this

1867 posts since 3/29/2008

I can speak about this one from experience actually, and I agree, the other characters were right to call BS.

The reason heavy alcoholics get the DTs is that prolonged exposure to alcohol severely inhibits chemical and electrical signals in the brain, so over time the body compensates by firing its neurons harder and faster. This is why typically an alcoholic can probably drink two or three times what a non-alcoholic can drink before starting to seem really drunk... (I'm a skinny 5'6" guy, and I used to be able to drink a bar worth of people under the table one by one). Then, when alcohol is removed and the neurons are less inhibited, but the body is still trying to compensate for the alcohol its become accustomed to, you end up with over responsive motor and sensory neurons. At its worst this is what the DTs are, and typically includes having really bad shakes, increased heart rate, sweating, and hallucinations. Also, because it can cause really high body temperature and seizures, it does at its very worst kill you... A lot of people don't realise that alcohol withdrawal is by far the worst withdrawal there is, and usually reserve that spot in their mind for something like heroin because of how its portrayed on the TV or in films. In reality heroin withdrawal is really just like medium to heavy flu symptoms... I'd have taken that over the DTs any day!

It does have its up sides though... It eventually scared me into rehab and got me sober... so ya know... swings and roundabouts!

The other thing that people get wrong is the idea that different drinks give you different hangovers. That's also completely untrue... Usually these people are mistaking the type of drink for how much they've drunk of it. Its a hell of a lot easier to drink a bottle of vodka than it is to drink 20 beers, and so people will do that (often without really realising) and then go "oh damn, that vodka hangover was bad...!". But I can tell you, as someone who would quite regularly drink 20-30 beers in one go, the hangovers are just as bad as each other when you drink enough! You can test this out... ask anyone what they were drinking before the worst hangover they've ever had, and I guarantee they will say some sort of spirit. Nobody ever says wine or beer.

Edited by - Edthebanjo on 09/23/2020 04:34:24

Sep 23, 2020 - 2:58:52 PM
likes this

10838 posts since 1/15/2005

Ed, you are exactly right and I am so glad you sought help. You are too valuable to be wasted by the ravages of alcohol ...... everyone is. I sure had my bouts with the stuff in college and in the service where it was just part of mine and all of my friends lives. Fortunately I was never addicted to it (if that is actually the correct term) as I could always quit after a single beer or drink and not feel like I wanted another one. I eventually became allergic to about everything alcoholic except Vodka which I will have once in a while.

While I agree on the type of hangovers from different drinks, I think there may be one caveat. I am so allergic to wine, particularly red wine (I think due to the sulfates), I get an instant headache from just a few sips. It is a possibility that some of the ingredients in certain wines and liqueurs could cause an allergic reaction in addition to the normal alcohol hangover.  I know I sure don't want anymore of them.

Sep 23, 2020 - 3:13:44 PM

1867 posts since 3/29/2008

quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink

Ed, you are exactly right and I am so glad you sought help. You are too valuable to be wasted by the ravages of alcohol ...... everyone is. I sure had my bouts with the stuff in college and in the service where it was just part of mine and all of my friends lives. Fortunately I was never addicted to it (if that is actually the correct term) as I could always quit after a single beer or drink and not feel like I wanted another one. I eventually became allergic to about everything alcoholic except Vodka which I will have once in a while.

While I agree on the type of hangovers from different drinks, I think there may be one caveat. I am so allergic to wine, particularly red wine (I think due to the sulfates), I get an instant headache from just a few sips. It is a possibility that some of the ingredients in certain wines and liqueurs could cause an allergic reaction in addition to the normal alcohol hangover.  I know I sure don't want anymore of them.


Part of what I found quite therapeutic and helpful in the early days of being sober, back when it was quite depressing, was researching about what actually causes alcoholism. And its pretty damn interesting actually! Tendency for alcoholism in males is quite readily carried down from male to male, but also from male, through a female to another male. So It can easily go from a male to his son, but also incredibly easily from a male to his grandson through his daughter, without the daughter (mother) experiencing any alcoholic tendencies. 

Its also quite easy to test whether you have a tendency to be an alcoholic by your physical response to alcohol, even when you've really only just started drinking. If after one or two drinks your heart rate increases by about 10-20bpm, then watch out! This doesn't happen in most people, but for alcoholics it acts initially as a stimulant, and you have an immediately positive response to drinking. No wonder we never want to stop haha! It actually seems to occur in the same people who have a tendency towards opium. Lots of people seem to think that opium is incredibly addictive, but its actually about the same as alcohol... If you think about the number of Vietnam veterans who took opium whilst deployed, compared to the number who stayed addicted when returning home, its about the same as the rate of alcoholism in the general population, and it affected the same people who have a stimulant response to alcohol. 

Sep 23, 2020 - 3:43:37 PM

mander

USA

4403 posts since 10/7/2007

quote:
Originally posted by Edthebanjo
quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink

Ed, you are exactly right and I am so glad you sought help. You are too valuable to be wasted by the ravages of alcohol ...... everyone is. I sure had my bouts with the stuff in college and in the service where it was just part of mine and all of my friends lives. Fortunately I was never addicted to it (if that is actually the correct term) as I could always quit after a single beer or drink and not feel like I wanted another one. I eventually became allergic to about everything alcoholic except Vodka which I will have once in a while.

While I agree on the type of hangovers from different drinks, I think there may be one caveat. I am so allergic to wine, particularly red wine (I think due to the sulfates), I get an instant headache from just a few sips. It is a possibility that some of the ingredients in certain wines and liqueurs could cause an allergic reaction in addition to the normal alcohol hangover.  I know I sure don't want anymore of them.


Part of what I found quite therapeutic and helpful in the early days of being sober, back when it was quite depressing, was researching about what actually causes alcoholism. And its pretty damn interesting actually! Tendency for alcoholism in males is quite readily carried down from male to male, but also from male, through a female to another male. So It can easily go from a male to his son, but also incredibly easily from a male to his grandson through his daughter, without the daughter (mother) experiencing any alcoholic tendencies. 

Its also quite easy to test whether you have a tendency to be an alcoholic by your physical response to alcohol, even when you've really only just started drinking. If after one or two drinks your heart rate increases by about 10-20bpm, then watch out! This doesn't happen in most people, but for alcoholics it acts initially as a stimulant, and you have an immediately positive response to drinking. No wonder we never want to stop haha! It actually seems to occur in the same people who have a tendency towards opium. Lots of people seem to think that opium is incredibly addictive, but its actually about the same as alcohol... If you think about the number of Vietnam veterans who took opium whilst deployed, compared to the number who stayed addicted when returning home, its about the same as the rate of alcoholism in the general population, and it affected the same people who have a stimulant response to alcohol. 


One has to tread lightly when stating addictive tendencies are hereditary, and yet,  to ignore the DNA factors just lands folks in the city of Denial. Just looking over my own family, seeing who does and who doesn't have a drinking problem, parenting doesn't begin to explain it. I feel fortunate I neither got that gene, nor, to the best of my knowledge, passed it on. I got lucky. I feel for those who did not.

Sep 23, 2020 - 4:07 PM

1867 posts since 3/29/2008

quote:
Originally posted by mander
quote:
Originally posted by Edthebanjo
quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink

Ed, you are exactly right and I am so glad you sought help. You are too valuable to be wasted by the ravages of alcohol ...... everyone is. I sure had my bouts with the stuff in college and in the service where it was just part of mine and all of my friends lives. Fortunately I was never addicted to it (if that is actually the correct term) as I could always quit after a single beer or drink and not feel like I wanted another one. I eventually became allergic to about everything alcoholic except Vodka which I will have once in a while.

While I agree on the type of hangovers from different drinks, I think there may be one caveat. I am so allergic to wine, particularly red wine (I think due to the sulfates), I get an instant headache from just a few sips. It is a possibility that some of the ingredients in certain wines and liqueurs could cause an allergic reaction in addition to the normal alcohol hangover.  I know I sure don't want anymore of them.


Part of what I found quite therapeutic and helpful in the early days of being sober, back when it was quite depressing, was researching about what actually causes alcoholism. And its pretty damn interesting actually! Tendency for alcoholism in males is quite readily carried down from male to male, but also from male, through a female to another male. So It can easily go from a male to his son, but also incredibly easily from a male to his grandson through his daughter, without the daughter (mother) experiencing any alcoholic tendencies. 

Its also quite easy to test whether you have a tendency to be an alcoholic by your physical response to alcohol, even when you've really only just started drinking. If after one or two drinks your heart rate increases by about 10-20bpm, then watch out! This doesn't happen in most people, but for alcoholics it acts initially as a stimulant, and you have an immediately positive response to drinking. No wonder we never want to stop haha! It actually seems to occur in the same people who have a tendency towards opium. Lots of people seem to think that opium is incredibly addictive, but its actually about the same as alcohol... If you think about the number of Vietnam veterans who took opium whilst deployed, compared to the number who stayed addicted when returning home, its about the same as the rate of alcoholism in the general population, and it affected the same people who have a stimulant response to alcohol. 


One has to tread lightly when stating addictive tendencies are hereditary, and yet,  to ignore the DNA factors just lands folks in the city of Denial. Just looking over my own family, seeing who does and who doesn't have a drinking problem, parenting doesn't begin to explain it. I feel fortunate I neither got that gene, nor, to the best of my knowledge, passed it on. I got lucky. I feel for those who did not.


The hereditary nature of it is quite well understood, and it plays a very important factor, but you're right, its not the be all and end all. In my estimation its probably about 80/20 split between genetics and environment, but of course, the environmental part is the only part you can really treat, so when dealing with it, it really takes some effort and a lot of time to get over it.

Sep 23, 2020 - 4:41:05 PM

chuckv97

Canada

52876 posts since 10/5/2013
Online Now

I’ve never had full-blown DT’s but have had tremours for a few hours. I’m the only alcoholic in my immediate family, but did have an older cousin who was one - not sure about any other more distant relatives. I had a great aunt who was addicted to sweets and kept eating them even after she acquired sugar diabetes.
It’s difficult to nail down causes of addiction/alcoholism. I just know I never felt very comfortable in my own skin , but then many teenagers don’t during those awkward years. I’d have a few drinks and think I was a real CONTENDAH ! lol

Sep 23, 2020 - 4:47:11 PM
likes this

1867 posts since 3/29/2008

quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97

I’ve never had full-blown DT’s but have had tremours for a few hours. I’m the only alcoholic in my immediate family, but did have an older cousin who was one - not sure about any other more distant relatives. I had a great aunt who was addicted to sweets and kept eating them even after she acquired sugar diabetes.
It’s difficult to nail down causes of addiction/alcoholism. I just know I never felt very comfortable in my own skin , but then many teenagers don’t during those awkward years. I’d have a few drinks and think I was a real CONTENDAH ! lol


Aye, I was pretty similar. I was an awkward and mildly socially inept teenager, until I'd had a beer or two. In the beginning a few drinks made socialising a lot more comfortable, and situations I'd ordinarily hate would become quite enjoyable. Then skip ahead a decade or so, and it'd become a social crutch where I couldn't even be in the presence of strangers without a skinfull. I remember once having 5 beers just so I could go and return a library book because I thought it'd be an ordeal otherwise! wink

Sep 23, 2020 - 4:53:57 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

52876 posts since 10/5/2013
Online Now

I hear you, Ed. Then when I got sober I was afraid of my own shadow! I was worse than when I started the alcohol wars.

Sep 23, 2020 - 8:07:45 PM

10838 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Edthebanjo
quote:
Originally posted by mander
quote:
Originally posted by Edthebanjo
quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink

Ed, you are exactly right and I am so glad you sought help. You are too valuable to be wasted by the ravages of alcohol ...... everyone is. I sure had my bouts with the stuff in college and in the service where it was just part of mine and all of my friends lives. Fortunately I was never addicted to it (if that is actually the correct term) as I could always quit after a single beer or drink and not feel like I wanted another one. I eventually became allergic to about everything alcoholic except Vodka which I will have once in a while.

While I agree on the type of hangovers from different drinks, I think there may be one caveat. I am so allergic to wine, particularly red wine (I think due to the sulfates), I get an instant headache from just a few sips. It is a possibility that some of the ingredients in certain wines and liqueurs could cause an allergic reaction in addition to the normal alcohol hangover.  I know I sure don't want anymore of them.


Part of what I found quite therapeutic and helpful in the early days of being sober, back when it was quite depressing, was researching about what actually causes alcoholism. And its pretty damn interesting actually! Tendency for alcoholism in males is quite readily carried down from male to male, but also from male, through a female to another male. So It can easily go from a male to his son, but also incredibly easily from a male to his grandson through his daughter, without the daughter (mother) experiencing any alcoholic tendencies. 

Its also quite easy to test whether you have a tendency to be an alcoholic by your physical response to alcohol, even when you've really only just started drinking. If after one or two drinks your heart rate increases by about 10-20bpm, then watch out! This doesn't happen in most people, but for alcoholics it acts initially as a stimulant, and you have an immediately positive response to drinking. No wonder we never want to stop haha! It actually seems to occur in the same people who have a tendency towards opium. Lots of people seem to think that opium is incredibly addictive, but its actually about the same as alcohol... If you think about the number of Vietnam veterans who took opium whilst deployed, compared to the number who stayed addicted when returning home, its about the same as the rate of alcoholism in the general population, and it affected the same people who have a stimulant response to alcohol. 


One has to tread lightly when stating addictive tendencies are hereditary, and yet,  to ignore the DNA factors just lands folks in the city of Denial. Just looking over my own family, seeing who does and who doesn't have a drinking problem, parenting doesn't begin to explain it. I feel fortunate I neither got that gene, nor, to the best of my knowledge, passed it on. I got lucky. I feel for those who did not.


The hereditary nature of it is quite well understood, and it plays a very important factor, but you're right, its not the be all and end all. In my estimation its probably about 80/20 split between genetics and environment, but of course, the environmental part is the only part you can really treat, so when dealing with it, it really takes some effort and a lot of time to get over it.


Yes Ed it certainly is well understood and I have seen many examples of it.  My brother-in-law and his wife married right out of college and like the rest of us at the time enjoyed having more than a few beers or cocktails, especially when we were at my in-law's lake house or other function when we all got together.  Both my b-i-l and his wife would get pretty snockered and the verbal fights would begin.  It got to the point than none of us could stand to be around them.  It sort of came to head one day while we were leaving a sporting event where we thought they were going to come to blows they were so mad at each other.  Both are hard headed and neither would back off.  After that day they decided if they wanted to stay married that neither of them could drink alcohol anymore.  That has been almost 30 years ago and neither has had a drink since.

My b-i-l's wife's brother had the same problem, although he was not nearly as argumentative as she was, but every bit as addicted to alcohol.  Both her and her brother were extremely intelligent, had excellent jobs, and their drinking did not affect them at their work at all.  As a matter fo fact, I don't think either of them drank during the week and maybe only at parties or when they were doing something on the weekends.  Her brother also made the decision to stop altogether and has not had a drink since.  Their father was an alcoholic and also at some point in his life pretty early on decided he had to quit also.  So in their case, whatever triggered the problem was prevalent in the father and two of the three children.

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