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separate dealer classified page.

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Jul 22, 2020 - 4:50:49 PM
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3870 posts since 5/1/2003

I'd appreciate it if dealers could have their own separate classified page.
There's a couple of them who fill up the whole front page every day with their overpriced banjos.
thanks.

Jul 22, 2020 - 5:37:58 PM
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2441 posts since 3/30/2008

I agree, there's too much advertising in the guise of posts, questions & replies. Overposters put their business links in too many threads. The HO has a classified section, but that isn't assertive enough for some members. It's tempting to turn the BHO into the "business hangout". They have a section, I wish they'd use it.

Jul 22, 2020 - 5:48:45 PM
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Bill Rogers (Moderator)

USA

23910 posts since 6/25/2005

I don’t read all the posts, nor all the ads. I’m aware of some dealers, but haven’t seen what I would call abuse. Not sure who I might call a dealer either. In any event, I invite any of you to send me some links off list in a PM and I’ll do some digging. I agree in principle, that the classifieds should be for occasional or periodic sellers, not regular ones who derive significant income from sales. I can’t make rules of course,, but I will try to see exactly what we are confronting.

Jul 22, 2020 - 6:20:55 PM
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KCJones

USA

891 posts since 8/30/2012

For the classified it could be like Craigslist. "By Owner / By Dealer" option. Doesn't need an entirely different section, just one more option to select when listing or searching.

As far as the self promotion certain people do in threads, that's hard to police and there's a lot of room for interpretation. Much easier to just keep scrolling, the same way you should react to any other poster you don't like.

Jul 22, 2020 - 6:48:59 PM

rcc56

USA

3114 posts since 2/20/2016

pm sent.

Jul 22, 2020 - 7:55:53 PM

mirwin

USA

210 posts since 2/4/2011

pm sent

Jul 22, 2020 - 7:58:30 PM

2928 posts since 2/18/2009

I've been wondering vaguely for a while if it is still appropriate for me to be posting classified ads. I've listed every non-custom banjo I've built since I started in 2009 here, but lately there have been more at a time. If the metric is deriving significant income from sales then I certainly shouldn't be listing here anymore. If the moderators or my fellow BHO members would rather I didn't post ads anymore I'll be happy to stop, and to delete my current ads.

Jul 22, 2020 - 8:26 PM
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63 posts since 12/6/2019

Zack I think there is a difference between a builder listing/selling their instruments through the classifieds and instrument shops or warehouses that post upwards of 15 ads at a time, and post fairly often. I dont necessarily see an issue with either scenario, but I think that what the original poster is describing is more along the lines of weekly or biweekly postings of a lot of instruments, not all of them banjo related.

Jul 22, 2020 - 8:33:14 PM
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Players Union Member

RioStat

USA

5267 posts since 10/12/2009

You're not the problem Zach......its some "warehouse" in Georgia, that has 99 active ads right now for banjos, guitars, mandolins, parts and cases......and has a " +5 " rating.....hell, i been selling a few parts and banjos over the past 8-10 years, and i got a +73 rating !

This seller clogs up the first 25 ads in the "Classifieds" day after day, and never seems to sell anything!

Take $1000.00 off every banjo they have listed.....they might sell a few more !

Edited by - RioStat on 07/22/2020 20:37:38

Jul 22, 2020 - 8:44:09 PM
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3870 posts since 5/1/2003

Scott said exactly what I'm talkin about.

Jul 22, 2020 - 8:46:55 PM

KCJones

USA

891 posts since 8/30/2012

It'd be nice to be able to block users, so their ads never show in the marketplace when you look. I could block 2-3 accounts, problem solved.

Jul 22, 2020 - 10:01:42 PM

2624 posts since 10/13/2011

I don't at all mind professional dealers like Zach or the "warehouse" (disclosure: I bought an outstanding banjo from said "warehouse") placing ads on the BHO. I appreciate having all these banjos and related gear listed in the BHO Classifieds for perusal, window-shopping, daydreaming, rather than having to search multiple sites. I've bought from regular pickers, and I've bought from professional dealers, it's all a risk/benefit/cost analysis from my standpoint. I admittedly feel more comfort dealing with professionals, who more reliably know from experience how to pack & ship a banjo.

If you are a BHO member who is listing a banjo and feel distressed that your ad is lost within a mass upload of a dealer's ads, you can always delete your first ad, and upload another one which follows the dealer's ads by a few slots. This has the decided advantage of showing your banjo is enticingly priced.

If a banjo is overpriced, professional dealers are used to negotiations (a/k/a dickering, haggling).

I do mind sellers who avoid paying the Classified fee. I've paid all the fees on my occasional sales on the Hangout, and feel it's unfair to Eric who keeps this site running, to strangle the revenue stream needed to support the system. The 2% fee is more than reasonable -- compare that to the cost of selling a banjo elsewhere, like on ebay.

Just my two cents. Might not be worth that!

Jul 23, 2020 - 2:32:20 AM

526 posts since 3/9/2013

It seems the dealer/private seller option is a perfect solution. I wouldn’t call a maker a dealer either. Unless that maker is goldtone or recording king.

Jul 23, 2020 - 4:57:19 AM

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

24851 posts since 8/3/2003

Dealers, builders, sellers, etc., have to follow the rules and there's a rule that you have to list each banjo separately. That's what causes the problem, at least I think that's the problem. I don't know if it would be possible or even fair to allow dealers to list numerous banjos on one classified, but it's an idea worth thinking about.

Jul 23, 2020 - 6:03:06 AM
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LarsHansen

Denmark

26 posts since 2/1/2016

quote:Originally posted by Texasbanjo... there's a rule that you have to list each banjo separately. That's what causes the problem, at least I think that's the problem....

I personally think the problem (if you'd call it that; issue anyway) is, that there's just too many listings too often by the same seller. I love seeing when they get new exciting inventory, but a maximum number of listings per day, or a kind reminder to the warehouse to let the ads run instead of re-listing might prove a better solution.

We should all keep in mind that they're just trying their best to promote their business, which is perfectly understandable, and good for the BHO if fees are paid. But I do agree that it's a bit much - hopefully the owner and administrators of the BHO will consider tweaking either the rules or code of the site to de-clutter the classifieds. 

Jul 23, 2020 - 7:43:37 AM
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3290 posts since 5/29/2011

The idea of the original post was to have a seperate page for dealers who post high volume classified ads not to block them out. A seperate page for dealers would unclutter the classified page considerably while keeping their ads in a place which could be easily accessed. I think that is a feasible idea. I know of a few bridge makers who clutter up the parts page in the classified ads as well. The same idea might work there, too.

Jul 24, 2020 - 11:41:29 AM

897 posts since 2/21/2011

I whole heartedly agree!

Jul 24, 2020 - 7:24:12 PM

10941 posts since 6/17/2003

What the dealers pay for advertising that links to their own page; it would save them work too. 

Jul 25, 2020 - 3:00:03 PM

carteru93

Canada

5400 posts since 12/14/2006

quote:
Originally posted by Culloden

The idea of the original post was to have a seperate page for dealers who post high volume classified ads not to block them out. A seperate page for dealers would unclutter the classified page considerably while keeping their ads in a place which could be easily accessed. I think that is a feasible idea. I know of a few bridge makers who clutter up the parts page in the classified ads as well. The same idea might work there, too.


100 percent agree. Seperate section for builders/independent "one off" sellers and dealers posting multiple ads a day would be ideal and also agree very feasible, and hoping Eric has seen this topic. I'm going to pm him about it as well just so he's aware because I think he's the only one who can make that change as well as approving it. 

I don't want to see "commercial" listings when I'm just looking at a sweet kk-10 conversion from so and so in the classified. 

Just a sub thread for the commercial dealers so they can post but not overrun the people just "browsing" not really looking to buy...like me. 

Just my 5 cents since Canada doesn't have pennies anymore lol

Jul 29, 2020 - 1:56:42 PM
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mirwin

USA

210 posts since 2/4/2011

Just within the last hour the 'big banjo store' in Atlanta renewed all their (21) ads on the Gibson page to move them to the top and pushed everyone else below them. Their ads take up half of the first page. Geoff may be a really nice guy as some have said but his marketing tactics deserve some scrutiny!

Jul 29, 2020 - 8:56:09 PM
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KCJones

USA

891 posts since 8/30/2012

Notice that Banjo Warehouse pays to have their ads promoted to the scrolling ad listings. I believe this is an additional charge, paid up front whether a sale is made or not.

Eric probably makes more money from Geoff than anyone else here, and I seriously doubt Eric would risk harming that lucrative relationship by pushing his ads off to their own section where they can easily be filtered out of view.

Jul 31, 2020 - 2:18:57 PM

mirwin

USA

210 posts since 2/4/2011

I wonder if that is really true? If you've only sold 5 instruments in 2 years is it a good business strategy to pay extra to post 99 ads (currently) at the top of their respective pages?

Something just doesn't add up.

Aug 8, 2020 - 12:39:18 PM

7 posts since 6/3/2018

Mike Irwin

I’ve sold 650 banjos in 2 years not 5

The way the hangout feedback works is a buyer or seller goes and leaves the individual account feedback independent of a sale. I’m not sure a sale has to be made for feedback but I am sure the system is not set up at all like eBay

I am doing what so many other dealers do which is take pictures, make an ad, list the ad and sell a banjo. I also pay to upgrade every ad and I have given the hangout $1000’s in fees for this

The only real difference between me and a lot of other sellers is the volume I do. If you think my marketing tactics deserve scrutiny because I list a lot of banjos than come and investigate me.

I have decided to stop refreshing my ads because clearly this is a problem. But I want to emphasize this is already a standard practice by a number of banjo dealers and it seems unfair to penalize me simply because I work with so much stuff

I’ve noticed in these comments a lot of people have been very happy with working with me. I do go really far to make prime merchandise available and go through a lot to make it its best

But there is nothing unethical going on, these points you made only indicate A) that I list. Lot of banjos and B) that the hangout feedback system is not that great

I think it’s interesting how many people have interjected in my defense but a handful of people have turned the large load of banjos and large amount of work I do into an issue

Aug 12, 2020 - 7:08:10 PM

Bart Veerman

Canada

4702 posts since 1/5/2005

quote:
Originally posted by mirwin

Just within the last hour the 'big banjo store' in Atlanta renewed all their (21) ads on the Gibson page to move them to the top and pushed everyone else below them. Their ads take up half of the first page. Geoff may be a really nice guy as some have said but his marketing tactics deserve some scrutiny!


 

isn't it against BHO rules to delete your classified ads?????

Aug 12, 2020 - 8:05:45 PM

mirwin

USA

210 posts since 2/4/2011

@Bart Veerman -- The ads are not being deleted only renewed or refreshed. The way it occurs it that the ad is 'edited' and resaved whether or not any changes have been made. By resaving the ad it is moved to the top of the page and all other ads are pushed down. Doing this for 20+ ads on the Gibson page has the effect of hiding all other ads.

I see that @Banjowarehouse_com has decided to stop this practice.

However, the OPs point is that there needs to be a separate dealer page(s) in the classifieds. And I agree.

Aug 12, 2020 - 10:49:26 PM

Bart Veerman

Canada

4702 posts since 1/5/2005

quote:
Originally posted by mirwin

@Bart Veerman -- The ads are not being deleted only renewed or refreshed. The way it occurs it that the ad is 'edited' and resaved whether or not any changes have been made. By resaving the ad it is moved to the top of the page and all other ads are pushed down. Doing this for 20+ ads on the Gibson page has the effect of hiding all other ads


Yeah, I hear you Mike. In the banjo parts category, there are a bunch of posts advertising stuff that originally was posted about 10 years ago and simply get renewed or updated time after time after time and, and that to date, still are active ads " obviously not private sellers but in all fairness, also not against BHO rules.

Yup, I quite agree: a not-a-private-seller disclosure would, or even should, definitely be appropriate.

Of course, any of these considerations are totally, and only, for Eric to decide and or rule on.

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