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Jun 2, 2020 - 6:08:59 AM
1382 posts since 4/25/2007

Anyone else on the Hangout own a Cammeyer "Special" with "59 Piccadilly" dowel stamps ? I would be interested in seeing photos please.

Jun 2, 2020 - 8:20:36 AM

PeterT

France

27 posts since 6/27/2012

I don't have a Cammeyer Special but Ihave got a Cammeyer with 97a jermyn Street stamped on the dowel.
It's the only one I've seen that is not a zither banjo.


Jun 2, 2020 - 12:34:48 PM

1382 posts since 4/25/2007

Nice banjo Peter. My Special is also an openback.

Jun 2, 2020 - 12:45:45 PM

269 posts since 2/21/2012

Hello Steve, Is there a Serial Number on your Special Cammeyer ?
Keith
Peter, Does your Cammeyer have any Serial Number , Jermyn Street is early.
Keith

Jun 3, 2020 - 12:16:41 AM

PeterT

France

27 posts since 6/27/2012

Yes Keith the seriel number on the back of the peg head is 1817.
There is also one on the dowel - 3115
Do you have any information about Cammeyer banjos?

Jun 3, 2020 - 1:28:26 AM

1382 posts since 4/25/2007

quote:
Originally posted by PeterT

Yes Keith the seriel number on the back of the peg head is 1817.
There is also one on the dowel - 3115
Do you have any information about Cammeyer banjos?


The neck timber on mine is Sheesham Indian Rosewood and from the photos yours appears to be the same.

Is that 1109 stamped on the heel under Cammeyer ?

Jun 3, 2020 - 1:44:59 AM

PeterT

France

27 posts since 6/27/2012

Yes, that's right, underneath the Cammeyer signature.
Any idea how these numbers correspond with dates?

Jun 3, 2020 - 1:48:32 AM

1382 posts since 4/25/2007

quote:
Originally posted by PeterT

Yes, that's right, underneath the Cammeyer signature.
Any idea how these numbers correspond with dates?


I don't but Keith has their ledger.

Jun 4, 2020 - 12:10:28 AM

1382 posts since 4/25/2007

quote:
Originally posted by banjowilly22

Hello Steve, Is there a Serial Number on your Special Cammeyer ?
Keith
Peter, Does your Cammeyer have any Serial Number , Jermyn Street is early.
Keith


Hi Keith. Yes 2099 on the dowel. W A Cole pattern neck brace.

Jun 4, 2020 - 5:14:43 AM

5321 posts since 9/21/2007
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by PeterT

Yes Keith the seriel number on the back of the peg head is 1817.
There is also one on the dowel - 3115
Do you have any information about Cammeyer banjos?


It is generally believed that these peghead numbers are Clifford Essex refurbishment numbers,

Jun 4, 2020 - 7:51:04 AM

1382 posts since 4/25/2007

quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooks
quote:
Originally posted by PeterT

Yes Keith the seriel number on the back of the peg head is 1817.
There is also one on the dowel - 3115
Do you have any information about Cammeyer banjos?


It is generally believed that these peghead numbers are Clifford Essex refurbishment numbers,

 


I have a Cammeyer Jermyn Street Grade 2 Zither the only stamp is 3369 on the back of the peghead. Is there a time frame for the Essex story ?

Edited by - Stephen John Prior on 06/04/2020 07:52:08

Jun 4, 2020 - 8:32:35 AM

5321 posts since 9/21/2007
Online Now

I don't know. Post WW2 through the 1970s? According to the BMG, CE stopped making banjos before WW2 due to material shortages. It is evident that they were not successful in starting back up. I presume there was not enough demand for the product. They did try to manufacture and sell Regal models later but it was a short lived project.

I presume they always offered repair service. There were also ads for second hand banjos in BMG. As far as the refurbishment numbers... I do not have an answer as to when they started and stopped.

I'm not even sure I know what I am talking about. Most of my info comes from reading BMG and English members of the Classic Banjo Ning website.

Jun 4, 2020 - 10:06:23 AM

269 posts since 2/21/2012

Hi Peter and Steve, Firstly , the details from Cammeyers ledgers are as follows :-
1817, was made on October 28th,1899. It is listed as a Special and also "WEAVER".
He did make Banjos for Essex and Cammeyer, and later Clifford Essex, along with other
companies. They also imported Banjos and parts from Cole in the USA. It doesn`t look
much like a Weaver, however it was part of a batch of 3 ,along with Nos 1815 and 1816.
Weaver also made the Clifford Essex Special model, with 11" head for Essex.
I can`t explain what the 3115 and 1109 numbers are ?
Steve- 2099 is listed a made on 8th September, 1900, as a "Special" model.
and 3369, simply dated 5th August 1904, with NO model designation.
I have in my collection a E and C Eclipse Banjeurine, with Cole stamp and recently
purchased a "Cole" 3000 model which turns out to only have Cole hardware, with the
neck made by Cammeyer.
Clifford Essex was in Partnership with Cammeyer from 1890 until 1900. However the
first entry in the Ledger is Number 1751, on September 2nd, 1899.
There are 3 Ledgers in my possession and the last entry is number 5565, on
December 2nd, 1937.
I will send copies of the Ledger pages to your e-mail.
Keith

Jun 4, 2020 - 11:11:11 AM

1382 posts since 4/25/2007

quote:
Originally posted by banjowilly22

Hi Peter and Steve, Firstly , the details from Cammeyers ledgers are as follows :-
1817, was made on October 28th,1899. It is listed as a Special and also "WEAVER".
He did make Banjos for Essex and Cammeyer, and later Clifford Essex, along with other
companies. They also imported Banjos and parts from Cole in the USA. It doesn`t look
much like a Weaver, however it was part of a batch of 3 ,along with Nos 1815 and 1816.
Weaver also made the Clifford Essex Special model, with 11" head for Essex.
I can`t explain what the 3115 and 1109 numbers are ?
Steve- 2099 is listed a made on 8th September, 1900, as a "Special" model.
and 3369, simply dated 5th August 1904, with NO model designation.
I have in my collection a E and C Eclipse Banjeurine, with Cole stamp and recently
purchased a "Cole" 3000 model which turns out to only have Cole hardware, with the
neck made by Cammeyer.
Clifford Essex was in Partnership with Cammeyer from 1890 until 1900. However the
first entry in the Ledger is Number 1751, on September 2nd, 1899.
There are 3 Ledgers in my possession and the last entry is number 5565, on
December 2nd, 1937.
I will send copies of the Ledger pages to your e-mail.
Keith


Thanks Keith. I figured it was early because of the Piccadilly address. 2099 Cammeyer Special is quite an interesting banjo and some aspects of it are certainly Weaver (ish). I'll post photos when repairs complete. Interesting i also have  Zither banjo 5455 which i now know is quite late. Thanks again great info. 

Jun 5, 2020 - 12:20:57 AM

1382 posts since 4/25/2007

quote:
Originally posted by banjowilly22

Hi Peter and Steve, Firstly , the details from Cammeyers ledgers are as follows :-
1817, was made on October 28th,1899. It is listed as a Special and also "WEAVER".
He did make Banjos for Essex and Cammeyer, and later Clifford Essex, along with other
companies. They also imported Banjos and parts from Cole in the USA. It doesn`t look
much like a Weaver, however it was part of a batch of 3 ,along with Nos 1815 and 1816.
Weaver also made the Clifford Essex Special model, with 11" head for Essex.
I can`t explain what the 3115 and 1109 numbers are ?
Steve- 2099 is listed a made on 8th September, 1900, as a "Special" model.
and 3369, simply dated 5th August 1904, with NO model designation.
I have in my collection a E and C Eclipse Banjeurine, with Cole stamp and recently
purchased a "Cole" 3000 model which turns out to only have Cole hardware, with the
neck made by Cammeyer.
Clifford Essex was in Partnership with Cammeyer from 1890 until 1900. However the
first entry in the Ledger is Number 1751, on September 2nd, 1899.
There are 3 Ledgers in my possession and the last entry is number 5565, on
December 2nd, 1937.
I will send copies of the Ledger pages to your e-mail.
Keith


Keith. Just wondering regarding Peters banjo serial number. Out of interest what happens if you look up 3115 in the ledger ? It seems to me the serial number is more likely to be the one stamped on the dowel. Attached is a photo of the dowel on my Special.


Jun 5, 2020 - 9:02:06 AM

269 posts since 2/21/2012

Hi Steve, Your Cammeyer number 5455 - 257, is listed as a Vibrante Royal, made on January 13th, 1931.
This also brings up an interesting feature of Cammeyer`s numbering system, with regard to the
"Vibrante" models. [ The Standard Vibrante had a 9" diameter head whereas the Vibrante Royal
had a 9.5" head size ]
The first number -5455 -is the sequential number in the ledgers, and this could be any model,
but, the second number is the sequential number just for the Vibrante models.
I have in my collection, the very last Vibrante Royal made, number 5563-285, made September 7th, 1937,
and this is also the 3rd from last Banjo made.
After this date Sydney Young, who was Cammeyer`s main Luthier, took over all the remaining stock
and parts and continued to produce a few more Banjos, but these did NOT bear the A.D.Cammeyer
facsimile signature stamped on the side of the neck heel.
Keith

Jun 7, 2020 - 1:04:36 AM

1382 posts since 4/25/2007

quote:
Originally posted by banjowilly22

Hi Steve, Your Cammeyer number 5455 - 257, is listed as a Vibrante Royal, made on January 13th, 1931.
This also brings up an interesting feature of Cammeyer`s numbering system, with regard to the
"Vibrante" models. [ The Standard Vibrante had a 9" diameter head whereas the Vibrante Royal
had a 9.5" head size ]
The first number -5455 -is the sequential number in the ledgers, and this could be any model,
but, the second number is the sequential number just for the Vibrante models.
I have in my collection, the very last Vibrante Royal made, number 5563-285, made September 7th, 1937,
and this is also the 3rd from last Banjo made.
After this date Sydney Young, who was Cammeyer`s main Luthier, took over all the remaining stock
and parts and continued to produce a few more Banjos, but these did NOT bear the A.D.Cammeyer
facsimile signature stamped on the side of the neck heel.
Keith


Hi Keith. Thanks for that. I checked yesterday and I also have a John Alvey Turner, Vibrante style, zither banjo made by Young.  

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